MorphBounties Proposal #2 - Please read and tell us what you
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    posure
    Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
    From: Milwaukee, USA
    First of all, thanks for everyone's responses to the new site. This is a second proposal based on your ideas. Please respond with what you think as well as please answer with your opinion on the possibilities section in its entirety. Please keep all related posts inside this thread. Thanks for your time.

    If I missed anything or you got any new ideas, feel free to mention those too!

    MorphBounties Proposal #2

    Almost definitely:

    1. There will be two ways (atleast at this point in time) to start up a bounty. #1: People suggest a program or concept they'd like to see and donate money towards it. #2: People suggest a specific program that they would like a specific author to port and donate money towards it.
    2. A trusted community individual (maybe more than one person..) will serve as the treasurer. See the possibilities section for information regarding forms of money, although PayPal is preferred.
    3. Donations will be allowed even after a bounty is fulfilled (these go straight to the author). Donations will not be stopped at any time. See the possibilities section for information regarding forms of money, although PayPal is preferred.
    4. There will be an administration team to oversee all site operations and manage all bounties.
    5. Anyone can donate to a bounty or a bounty's author.
    6. There will be a designated public testing period (two weeks?) before donations are forwarded to the author.
    7. All programs that result from bounties will be free for all of the public.

    Possibilities:

    1. Should we allow developers to suggest their own bounties? as well as required donation amount?
    2. Should rules be fully defined? or should they be on a program by program basis?
    3. Somewhat related to the previous question..should programs submitted be required to be open-source licenses (GPL/LGPL)? or should it be like the prior and possibly require this on a program by program basis?
    4. Should projects be assigned to a single author (or group)? or should it be an open competition?
    5. If projects are assigned should a person from the adminstration team be assigned to oversee the development?
    6. Should there be deadlines? (There will definitely be deadlines if projects are assigned.)
    7. Should we accept all forms of donations? not just PayPal, but also checks and money orders? Note that as these projects are international, checks and money orders may be difficult and might only be useful for donations and not for sending to the authors. Note that not requiring PayPal might force the treasurer to spend quite a bit of time managing the money.
    8. Should we limit the number of concurrent bounties? possibly somewhere around five or six? This will also cause the creation of bounties to go through a "review" process before they are accepted.
    9. For further donations after a bounty has been fulfilled, forwarding would be PayPal only; any other types of donations would be required to have the donator contact the author directly.
    psr.
    alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
  • »11.06.04 - 02:28
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    posure
    Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
    From: Milwaukee, USA
    my responses to the possibilities:

    1. I think this would lead to too much greed and would take the spirit out of the site.
    2. I think the suggested program by program basis works the best, this way certain programs might require to be opensource while others might not be.
    3. See #2.
    4. Open competition promotes new authors, but might require some authors to do alot of work with little or no financial payoff. Assigned vs open has its positives and negatives, this could possibly be on a program by program basis as well.
    5. If a project is assigned, this should be overseen on administration on open bounties only, not ones that target a specific author's specific program.
    6. There should be deadlines on assigned bounties but not on open ones.
    7. If we have a treasurer willing to spend the time, all donations should be accepted, however, PayPal is preferred.
    8. This is another great idea mentioned on the forums, I think the limit should be at least five, perhaps six. Maybe a max of eight?
    9. I think this is fine, PayPal is easy to forward, but forwarding money orders and checks that could easily go straight to the author is a waste of time.
    psr.
    alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
  • »11.06.04 - 02:36
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    warface
    Posts: 653 from 2003/2/24
    From: Hungary
    1. There will be three ways - but only 2 was there :-) It'd be nice if developers could offer to port something over for a fixed prize.
    2. All right with me.
    3. Where the extra money will go in case of already finished projects?
    4. All right with me.
    5. All right with me.
    6. Very fine idea.
    7. Excellent idea.

    Possibilities:

    1. Definitely yes.
    2. I vote for being fully defined and uniform, with small exceptions maybe in complex cases.
    3. GPL is a difficult question. A work which required money should be available for everyone? If yes, then GPL is fine, but we should consider something like the AROS license. (Ab)using GPL is just the hot topic of ANN.
    4. Very good question. I suggest, that using the AROS approach (assign to single developer/group) is satisfactory. Open challenges should be exceptions only.
    5. Why not? But it'd be better if just inquiries could be made whether the project stopped or is ongoing, instead of day to day monitoring, which can be frustrating for any developer.
    6. Yes. But deadlines are always missed, so extending deadlines must be a possibility.
    7. As it is best. I have little experience in that.
    8. Definitely, concurrent bounties shouldn't be more than 2 IMHO, except for open challenges, where no limit is needed.

  • »11.06.04 - 08:26
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      warface:
      heh..yeah..there was three ways but then i moved the developer creating their own bounties to the possibilities section..i'll edit that typo :)

      Donations from after finished products go straight to the author. I'll edit my other post again to clarify this.

      As far as the person overseeing development..that wouldn't be a day to day thing..thats more just every so often to see how its coming and that progress has been made.

      Forgot to put that in there about extending deadlines..deadlines would be extended as long as its some rational amount of time.
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »11.06.04 - 09:20
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    • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Robin
      Posts: 741 from 2003/2/24
      MorphOS is not open source. So I think there should
      be no rule to make programs developed for it open source.
      It's nice if an author publishes his code, but I think it
      should remain his decision what to do with it.

      BTW, can someone from germany tell me how to get a
      paypal-account without a credit card ?
    • »11.06.04 - 10:59
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    • Paladin of the Pegasos
      Paladin of the Pegasos
      Acill
      Posts: 1926 from 2003/10/19
      From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
      I agree with all the ideas for the most part. I also think it needs to be on an the developer to decide if his project is open or closed. This is a must. If the choice to close it is made then the first working release must be free if the are to claim a bountie.
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    • »11.06.04 - 13:11
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      Anyone else got any ideas or feelings on this?
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »13.06.04 - 05:55
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    • Targhan
      Posts: 2833 from 2003/2/8
      From: USA
      I think the code could be Open or Closed, but as an agreement between the users and the developer. Some projects will live longer through open source, others benefit from being closed source. This would really only apply to original projects..

      Naturally, ports will carry over their current licensing scheme, as would any "requested updates." I also think there should be some kind of exception for "Community Source," or source that is only made available _through_ the bounties system; however, such a "Community Sourcecode" would be a rarely used system.

      As far as allowing developers to suggest their own projects, that can be tricky. I think for a given amount of time, it should be allowed. Not as a trial run, but because it can give an initial burst of activity that helps all involved.
      :idea:Targhan

      MorphOS portal? www.MorphZone.org
    • »13.06.04 - 07:05
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      Does anyone else have any opinions please? I'd like to get atleast a couple more before I move ahead. Thank you.
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »15.06.04 - 19:20
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    • Butterfly
      Butterfly
      Posts: 90 from 2003/4/13
      "although Paypal is preferred"
      Beware what you are up to:
      PayPal are a bunch of thieves that STOLE my 107 USD from my account and never refunded MY money.
      I have corresponded with those ppl for 4 months and never got my 107 USD back.
      regs
      hgm duijker
      :-(
    • »15.06.04 - 19:38
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      Jonny_Rico
      Posts: 45 from 2004/3/18
      From: Germany
      When will be the side opened for public?? Can't find any www-Adress... ;-(
    • »15.06.04 - 19:44
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      The site won't be open until we iron out the guidelines.
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »15.06.04 - 20:32
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      lowietje1:

      Is it PayPal themselves or did you send someone money on PayPal. I've never encountered anything but good things from PayPal as well as all my friends. I've had someone screw me over once, but that isn't PayPal's fault.
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »15.06.04 - 20:34
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    • Butterfly
      Butterfly
      Posts: 90 from 2003/4/13
      <Is it PayPal themselves?>
      Yes, it's PayPal that removed MY money from MY account
      and I NEVER got it back. And what's more I was NOT the only one. They ARE thieves. If money is involved then thieves are often not far away. PayPal are a bunch of thieves and scum.
      regs
      hgm duijker
    • »16.06.04 - 08:27
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    • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Velcro_SP
      Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
      From: Universe
      |||

      [ Edited by Velcro_SP on 2011/3/12 7:36 ]
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    • »16.06.04 - 09:35
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    • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Velcro_SP
      Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
      From: Universe
      |||

      [ Edited by Velcro_SP on 2011/3/12 2:19 ]
      Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
    • »16.06.04 - 09:49
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    • Paladin of the Pegasos
      Paladin of the Pegasos
      Acill
      Posts: 1926 from 2003/10/19
      From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
      I've had some issues with paypal myself and its why I wont host the payment account. It is still a good way to send money and as far as I know the only one now still available to most of the world. So unless anyone had other ideas we will use it. Remember you dont have to pay this way. We are thinking of other forms of payment too.
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    • »16.06.04 - 13:04
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      We will be accepting other forms of payment once a treasurer has been found. (I have no idea who is trusted around here as I am new to the community.)
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »16.06.04 - 16:23
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    • Order of the Butterfly
      Order of the Butterfly
      liquidbit
      Posts: 407 from 2003/10/12
      posure, your idea came also in my mind...
      If I knew that I could pay safelly via internet I would do that..the MZ community wants to see a lot of applications and they are not afraid to pay for!

      Maybe my idea would sound silly but a Central MZ Bank account would be more safe.
      I dont know the legal stuff, but there has to be a solution.

      About the rest of your suggestions are great, and I have an idea too, I would love to be able to see the status of the development, I dont really want to see the source code.
      I like to see it as an investment, so I would like to see all the participants with their real names & the amount of money they gave.

      If the project will not able to be finished, the participants must be able to move their money to another project(if not getting them back).

      If the project is done and well tested, the developers get the money from the "MZ Community Bank Group".

      The Community Bank Group has to be a Board with some members voted by all the MZ Community Members.

      The Community Bank Group Elections has to be atleast once a year and it needs to have TWO Key-Holders(Presidents)with the need of both for access to the real Bank Account.

      ..those are my ideas for now.
      ..there will be only one left.
    • »16.06.04 - 17:02
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    • Butterfly
      Butterfly
      Posts: 90 from 2003/4/13
      Great idea ! Good thinking !
      regs
      hgm
    • »16.06.04 - 20:16
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      There will be a real bank account no matter what. Problem with multiple holders for a bank account is that Morph OS is international and it might be difficult to find two people who both can access the same account.

      PayPal would still be preferred though, as money can be transferred in and out of bank accounts, if you feel PayPal is unsafe we can transfer all funds to the bank account and only put money in the PayPal account when it has to be transferred elsewhere.

      As far as yearly elections..I don't really feel that's necessary..I think we should just keep it choosing maybe one or two initial treasurers, and if they mess up we'd obviously remove their power. But if they're doing a fine job I don't see any reason why their time should be taken for granted by doing elections, unless of course they wish to step down. That and since we're dealing with real bank accounts..the job involves alot more time, and I don't think there will be too many people who both wish to spend the time as well as are trusted amongst the community..but then again, I'm new here. :-)
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »17.06.04 - 00:04
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    • Butterfly
      Butterfly
      Posts: 90 from 2003/4/13
      <if you feel PayPal is unsafe >
      PayPal IS unsafe. Would you put your money on your local
      bank if the money vanishes after a couple of days?
      I hope you get the message now.
      regs
      hgm
    • »17.06.04 - 08:39
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    • Cocoon
      Cocoon
      posure
      Posts: 46 from 2004/5/17
      From: Milwaukee, USA
      Yes, I get your message..but as far as I'm concerned, it's still the easiest and most secure way to deal with money online..so we will be using it at the very least to accept funds and transfer them to a bank account.
      psr.
      alkjfdjkahsSTRESSED OUTasjhfakdfa
    • »17.06.04 - 09:23
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    • Butterfly
      Butterfly
      Posts: 90 from 2003/4/13
      I give up , sorry. I gave my reason why NOT using PayPal. Still you say it's the most secure way to deal with money online.PayPal are thieves .......... sorry I give up
      regs
      hgm
    • »17.06.04 - 09:42
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    • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
      Robin
      Posts: 741 from 2003/2/24
      I'd say it's better to have individuals to
      look at the (real) accounts. I cant find a way to
      use paypal without a credit card here in germany
      and I dont have one and I'm sure this may be a
      problem elsewhere,too.

      We've so many really active ppl in the community
      who already show they can work with money as a
      dealer I'd say that would be a great idea to ask a
      few of them to take care of some money.

      For example I know that CompCity has access to german
      and dutch accounts and the crew really put alot of energy
      into the pegasos world ... (I guess dutch/german peg users
      is the biggest group around.)
    • »17.06.04 - 16:03
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