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Happens once country is under dictatorship, UN blockade and NATO bombing. Sadly not only in Serbia. On global scale, NATO war crimes win. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9C-Hom5QwE



[ Edited by vox 09.03.2014 - 01:17 ]

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"Defense" budget. I hear Ukraine is much resource rich, but young nationalism is also extreme and violent. Crimea seems to become another Putins satelite, US will save financial ass of Ukraine ... and everyone wins. Or everybody looses?

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I wont take any side, but the US spendage is just comical. Don't you ever come to me say you don't have money. Ever.

I got money, but I don't have a place to plant an apple tree.

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Ok. It was armed coup.

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Ukrainian Nazists, not national socialists.

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You can think anything you want, but no one had been seen democratic procedures which made him illegitimate. Threatening with death is not democratic procedure.

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Ask Scotland not to hold a referendum to exit UK.

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Hehehehe... Are you really so sure in NATO troops?

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38 years left yet. Many things can happen.

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You can name AK-47 any name, but it will be staying AK-47.

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There's no navy forces in Ukraine. There's no army in Ukraine. They're frightening themeselves just looking in the mirror. They left several bases to extremists and left many fireguns. They left some rocket complexes, which can be used to shoot at civilian aircrafts. I have not a drop of pity to them.

By that "logik" who is president of Egypt ?

Maybe its still Mursi, or even still Mubarak ??

Surely the guy actually in charge can be disqualified......

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Ok. Fascists and nationalists.

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Why then are you asking to place ak-47 to crimean heads? That's what now non-legitimate fascists whant to do. Anyway ask someone from there and you'll understand that noone is forcing them except new Ukrainian government.

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I've seen what Georgian troops made to Southern Osetia. Had you?

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They must have been protecting their bases from extremists from western Ukraine, not Russia, and protect the legitimity of government. But they ran away leaving everything to that nationalists who came to their doors. Now them do have anti-aircraft missiles and other heavy weapons. Those dumb idiots WILL use it. Prey all your gods that it will not be aircraft with YOUR family and YOUR friends.
Anyway seems that you don't really understand what's happening in Ukraine and what had happened in Southern Osetia.

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Problem for us not present at Crimea or in Kiew is, that it is very hard to get a neutral view on the issues. We are all trapped in propaganda. East not better or worse than west. But west believes there's only propaganda in the east and probably the east believes the same from their POV). As I wrote a couple of posts before - you can only come to conclusion that the whole issue stinks. And many, many forces/interest groups contribute to that stinky thing. Who is contributig the most stinky things is debateable, but it's a fact that all involved contribute and propagate their stinky agenda.

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I find nothing bad in nationalism. As for fascism - there's no fascist party at Ukraine. There is Svoboda, sometimes accused of being fascistic and anti-semitic. Russia, on the other hand, has Pamyat, RNU, NBP, RNSP, or Russia 88 - all of them probably fully supporting aggression on Ukraine's autonomous republic of Crimea.

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We can discuss this ad nauseam. When a government is overthrown by social mobilisation and a widespread civil disorder can the new government be called "non-legitimate usurpers"? Was it the case with Russia in 1991? Or with Iceland in 2009?

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Care to share a quote/news, perhaps? Where and when did those "extremists" attack a military base in any part of Ukraine? And why should the military "protect the legitimacy of government" when the goverment apparently lost it?

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I see the same pattern:
1. Provocation
2. Conflict
3. The stronger one wins.

On eastern Ukraine (especially on Crimea) currently we see number 1. Fortunately the Ukrainians are smarter than the Georgians were (at least they can compare their situation to what happened in 2008) and - as for now - there's no armed conflict. Unfortunately - if they'll continue evasive actions and nobody helps them (and I don't see that coming) - they will eventually loose their land anyway.

Guess the Baltic states are more than lucky that they are allready EU an NATO members protecting them from Mr Putin "protecting" Russians.....

Morphosteam ... new version please. Some people overhere have way to much time.

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Lucky being NATO member in terms of having to give people to crazy missions to protect US interest?

No thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9C-Hom5QwE

I respect the Serbs because they shot down NATO's F117 :) but currently NATO is more a political pact and I'm happy that Poland belongs to it. I understand that Serbia doesn't like pact which bombed buildings but Russian military doctrine is far more worse. Good relations between Russia and Serbia are only the result of the Russian desire to maintain influence in the balkans. It's still only politics. Than God that You don't have Russian minority in Serbia :)

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Yes, if someone wants to see seized US Amrmament, can be my guest at museums of Belgrade Less known is that NATO has lost only ground battle in Yugoslav campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kosare

However, in this "humanitarian campaign" (with a lot of civic vicitims and non military infrastracture destruction) NATO has became an agressor instead of defense league.

In troubled times when world again looks bipolar I like to remind people that both US and Russia destroy OUN by acting without its approval, and should be thrown out of it for multiply violations of its conventions and basic human, social and economic rights. As it was with Lague of Nations, favourable position of founding members is a weak knee.

I know why my Polish brother dislike Russians, Iron Curtain occupation was terrible, and I am glad Yugoslavia has avoided it, but paid high blood price in its fall in civic war.

I am glad NAM and OAU still exists and should grow stronger again.

As well as this speech seems actual again
http://soundcloud.com/vojin-vidanovic/bunny-wailer-disarmament-1

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No good guys like in Syria or before Afghanistan, even Yugoslavia - bad regime, bad rebels, bad US, bad Russia.

Russia is over aggressive and takes part of Ukraine, while Ukranins sadly play on extreme nationalism and arming people. NATO and US kind of not interviene, but send private mercs and emulate a proxy war.

And Russia shows to be just same as US with Kosovo - use internal conflict to weaken countries (South Osettia, Crimea). Small and even smaller countries are easier subjects to neoliberal exploitation, corruption and dominance of corporate capital.

No, We Poles like Russians and their culture, just don't like Russian policy.

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Well I can say the same.

We actually have some Ukrainians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Rusyn_language
even Serbs are more likely to be pro Russian then pro US for historical and pan Slavic reasons. But since Ukrainians are also Slavs, I would rather stay or neutral or anti war aligned, which surely includes Russian interventionism policy to protect "their interests", which sounds kind of US.

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Celtic crosses, confederate flags, SS meetings, nazi salutes, riots after laws that forbidden foreign entities financing nazi political parties...

see some pics here... I'm glad you asure us that there are no nazi parties at ukraine. These guys doing nazi salutes are probably their evil twin brothers.

Here's the president of Svodoba celebrating his re-election:
2ez1m3k.jpg

here's Yats with his nazi friend



here we have some Svodoba cheerleaders

Here we have the peaceful Svodoba hippies sitting peacefully Madrid 15-M style being attacked by the evil pro-russian police.]Here we have the peaceful Svodoba hippies sitting peacefully Madrid 15-M style being attacked by the evil pro-russian police.

The poor hippies fire some flags to get warm

Svodoba pals having fun

Here we have official buildings with white supremacy flags, oh yeah

a grandson with his grandpa

Svodoba members like ornithology, here's one with a nice eagle t-shirt

another blog with some info about the laws that detonated Svodoba's recent riots

a short BBC documentary about Svodoba's jew-friendly fellas


I bet jews and russians are safe with Svodoba.

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If there are no democratic elections it's not legitimate. A nazi crowd in a square praising their nazi leader is not exactly "legitimate" in my book, and I wouldn't get near them to tell them "calm down guys, don't kill that policemen, don't kidnap that other one"... it's government built on blood and if they had any interest in democracy they would have done some new elections. They won't, they prefer to go to a civil war fueled by the US and NATO (NATO only serves US so it's redundant).

US will probably send mercenaries and give weapons to nazi party. It seems they get on really well

After all, US likes dictators (e.g. fascist spanish dictator Franco, famous for killing more people after the civil war that during the war), talibans (US trained and funded them to fight against the russians) and nazis (good customers), the only thing US government likes more is money. A few years ago Germany finished paying for US "help".

[ Edited by Crumb 14.03.2014 - 20:41 ]

They say Putin is nazi, they say Yanukovits is nazi, they say crimeans are nazis, they say ukrainians are nazis, they say russians are nazis, they say new government is nazis. Where did all non-nazis go and who is right and who is wrong?

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They usually go to the sides of the road with a shot in the head.

Firstly some soldiers/policemen come to your home and say "let's take a walk", they take you to a separate place and then they shoot you and let your body at the side of the road. They usually say you ran away and dissapeared and never tell where your corpse is located.

That's how it worked in Spain at least, they were efficient doing it, killing more people this way that during the war. The ones that were not killed in roads were enslaved in concentration camps where they peaked rocks and carried them to build "fallen's valley".

Killing civilians just to create terror was not only a method of nazis, but also USA (dresden, hiroshima, nagashaki)

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HEY, I like Russians, they have been some of my best customers on eBay.
But Putin is a thug.
What do you want from an ex-KGB buffoon?

BTW - Beating the US up about Dresden, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki would to this day still fall on dead ears here.
The Taliban, now that was a bad decision that eventually bit us in the ass.

[ Edited by Jim 15.03.2014 - 01:30 ]

Sorry if that last comment offended some of you.
We all carry the weight of past decisions made by our leaders.

When I was young and visiting Washington DC on a school trip, I witnessed a cannonade salute to the visiting Shah of Iran from atop the Washington Monument (Nixon was still in office at the White House).

Obviously, the United States has made some bad decisions in politics and policies.

But you're not likely to make us feel bad about our actions during WWII.
We felt justified.

And ask our German friends, would your mothers and fathers rather have been greeted by our troops on the Western Front or the Russians on the Eastern Front?

Anyone else want to offer support to the Russians?
They killed far more people than the Germans ever did (including many of their own).

Who with a sword will come to us, he will die by the sword.
Just remember that phrase of Alexander Nevsky. It is definitely show our foreign policy.
BTW, Russians never ever started ANY war unlike USA e.x.

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Huh ?
(remember that USSR == Russia more or less for 70 years)

- WW2 was started by Germany AND Russia in Europe
- Afghanistan

- based on the your definition or "war" one might also add the act of occupation in east europe from 1945-1990 to that list.

A bit further down history we find the crimean wars and I'm sure a real history geek could add far more to that list.