MUI4 for OS4?
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    So, if I read all this correctly, the package still requires a key from Stuntzi to work correctly?
    Too funny.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.01.14 - 00:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    So, if I read all this correctly, the package still requires a key from Stuntzi to work correctly?
    Too funny.


    Would be even funnier if he refuses to issue any for OS4.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »19.01.14 - 00:45
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:


    So the OS4 update mechanism isn't controlled by Hyperion? Interesting.....


    Hyperion is known for not having controll over even the most basics things (updates that completley fail on user HW, websites down for weeks every few months ....).
    Quote:


    Has Stuntzi made any public statements about this debacle?

    I was previously under the impression that MUI4 had been bought by the MorphOS Team at some point and now belongs to them, but I'm not sure why I had this idea.


    AFAIK&R:
    - laire got the MUI3.8 sources sometime in 2001 and ported them to PPC
    - this was released as MUI3.9 for MorphOS0.4 and went back into Stuntzi's SVN/CVS/?
    - in 2002 Hyperion bought a copy of those 3.9 sources with the provision that any binary made from them would still require a keyfile
    - Stuntzi was just like a bunch of other MorphOS developers hired by Genesi/Thendic
    - that didn't end so well
    - ca. 2005 Stuntzi started work on MUI4
    - from 2007 till now MUI has been advanced by some MorphOS-team members to 4.2 with some input from Stuntzi

    - ca 2012 some OS4 contributors started retrofitting MUI4.x features into the MUI3.9 source tree (wether that was in the scope of the contract with Stuntzi is unknown)

    Dates are just rough guestimates.


    [ Edited by Kronos 19.01.2014 - 08:56 ]
  • »19.01.14 - 08:47
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Hyperion intentionally distributed a pirated copy of MUI4


    As much I like to nail something like that to Hyperion....

    The guys maintaing the OS4-MUI did release that onw their own, maybe they just forgot to compile the keyfile-check, maybe they thought that Stuntzi was long gone, maybe that their contributions to the code ouweigh his and MUI so somehow became theirs,maybe....

    Still quite a funny trainwreck.




    So in the end, we don`t know do they have legal permission,
    its not the same version as in MOS 4.2,
    but yet they did something good for OS4, finally.

    With OWB (Odyssey), MUI and UAE-JIT seems its all someone elses work and community effort these days, but yet an Amigan spirit lives.

    With so many shared components AmigaOS 5 united seems inevitable more then ever.
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
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  • »19.01.14 - 08:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=86246#forumpost86246
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=20422%23p20422


    So if I understand this correctly (second link makes my brain ache!) Hyperion intentionally distributed a pirated copy of MUI4 to their customers just to provoke a reaction from Stuntzi?


    I cringe of brain ache as well, can't believe I'm actually reading this! But things like this has been done by "them" before ("them" beeing both Hyperion and third party OS4 developers).


    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:

    As much I like to nail something like that to Hyperion....

    The guys maintaing the OS4-MUI did release that onw their own


    Yes, as Christoph Gutjahr said, this was never an OS4 update but a *third party* app released as such ('Xmas update'), probably because nothing else was available. "Got to keep the potential X2000 customers happy."

    "given the state of the project, they can't be too picky about what they offer as 'updates':

    Timberwolf dead? Gallium/SMP only existing in the heads of some wannabe leaders? The W3D drivers that Trevor had "hoped to have ready" for AmiWest 2012 still not released?

    MUI4 at least gives the impression of progress."



    Quote:

    maybe they just forgot to compile the keyfile-check, maybe they thought that Stuntzi was long gone, maybe that their contributions to the code ouweigh his and MUI so somehow became theirs,maybe....

    Still quite a funny trainwreck.


    Embarrassing is what it is! That post by "tommy sammy" linked to above is astonishing, what it says is that Stefan Stuntz only developed MUI between 1992-2006, since then MUI4 is copyrighted/developed (2006-2013) by "the MUI4 team". So I agree with you, maybe they conveniently "believed" that MUI was abandonware or whatever, maybe they conveniently "thought" that their contributions to the MUI project was greater than Stefan Stuntz's, so maybe they argued that because all of this, MUI4 had now become the property of "the MUI4 team"/OS4/the reeel!!1! or whatever.

    http://www.sasg.com/mui/:
    Magic User Interface, Copyright © 1992-2013, Stefan Stuntz

    (Page last updated: 29-Aug-2013, 08:25:45)

    They should be ashamed, but I doubt they are capable. A train wreck it is indeed.


    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    So, if I read all this correctly, the package still requires a key from Stuntzi to work correctly?
    Too funny.


    First it didn't apparently, but after a recent update the key file check has been re-introduced into OS4-MUI. This after Stefan Stuntz contacted them (after OS4-MUI had been released) and made clear to them that MUI is *his* property.

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 19.01.2014 - 11:06 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »19.01.14 - 10:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    vox wrote:

    With so many shared components AmigaOS 5 united seems inevitable more then ever.


    Well, I suppose that this is *one* interpretation of the situation...

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »19.01.14 - 10:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 655 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    Unity with what?

    The worst Linux ideas and leftovers of AROS/MorphOS?
  • »19.01.14 - 11:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:

    http://www.sasg.com/mui/:
    Magic User Interface, Copyright © 1992-2013, Stefan Stuntz


    BTW, the calendar has now switched to the year 2014...

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »19.01.14 - 11:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    I wonder what the true believers would have to say if the next MorphOS update came with a copy of the 3.1 bundled with E-UAE "Just to see if the copyright holder complains"?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »19.01.14 - 12:48
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 67 from 2011/4/21
    i don't suppose anyone here has considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, this was done with stuntzi's approval?

    -- eliyahu
  • »19.01.14 - 14:31
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    eliyahu wrote:
    i don't suppose anyone here has considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, this was done with stuntzi's approval?

    -- eliyahu




    You mean 1st removing the need for a keyfile and then adding it back in a week later ?

    No, haven't considered that....


    As for wether those people have the right to develop "their" MUI further and change the version-number .... *shrug* .... can't say that I really care much.
  • »19.01.14 - 14:41
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 746 from 2007/4/22
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > hyperion paid for it

    ...or not:

    http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=86246#forumpost86246
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=20422%23p20422


    Kuntz, lol.
  • »19.01.14 - 15:33
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    Quote:

    eliyahu wrote:
    i don't suppose anyone here has considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, this was done with stuntzi's approval?



    It wasnt.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »19.01.14 - 16:43
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    kamelito
    Posts: 103 from 2011/9/21
    How about a Morphos bounty for MUI 5?
    Kamelito
  • »19.01.14 - 16:49
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    vox wrote:

    With so many shared components AmigaOS 5 united seems inevitable more then ever.


    Well, I suppose that this is *one* interpretation of the situation...

    :lol: :lol: :lol:


    Oh my, AOS5 again.
    Such recurrent optimism.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.01.14 - 17:07
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    kamelito wrote:
    How about a Morphos bounty for MUI 5?
    Kamelito


    ????????????

    How about you listing what you think is missing in MUI4.2 ?
  • »19.01.14 - 17:17
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Georg
    Posts: 106 from 2004/4/7
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:

    Embarrassing is what it is! That post by "tommy sammy" linked to above is astonishing, what it says is that Stefan Stuntz only developed MUI between 1992-2006, since then MUI4 is copyrighted/developed (2006-2013) by "the MUI4 team".




    In MorphOS similiar copyright lines are used for code based on AROS. For example "version LIBS:locale.library FULL" gives "(c) 1996-2003 AROS, (c) 2003-2013 MorphOS Team".
  • »19.01.14 - 17:37
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Georg wrote:
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:

    Embarrassing is what it is! That post by "tommy sammy" linked to above is astonishing, what it says is that Stefan Stuntz only developed MUI between 1992-2006, since then MUI4 is copyrighted/developed (2006-2013) by "the MUI4 team".




    In MorphOS similiar copyright lines are used for code based on AROS. For example "version LIBS:locale.library FULL" gives "(c) 1996-2003 AROS, (c) 2003-2013 MorphOS Team".




    There IS a slight difference in creating enhanced versions of open software and re-working copyrighted software.
    I'm pretty sure the latter is generally not legal unless permitted by the author.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.01.14 - 17:48
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    kamelito
    Posts: 103 from 2011/9/21
    Quote:

    Kronos a écrit :
    Quote:

    kamelito wrote:
    How about a Morphos bounty for MUI 5?
    Kamelito


    ????????????

    How about you listing what you think is missing in MUI4.2 ?


    Everything needed to develop for Morphos at a faster rate,moving to something like Cocoa something like what was interface builder would be nice too.
    Expand MUI concept to the all system not just UI.
    Kamelito

    [ Edité par kamelito 19.01.2014 - 18:07 ]
  • »19.01.14 - 18:05
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    I'm pretty sure the latter is generally not legal unless permitted by the author.



    Geee, Ben you really managed to fool us for so long...................
  • »19.01.14 - 18:06
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    @kamelito

    An interface builder would not (and should not) be part of MUI, but a standalone (3rd party) app.

    [gag-order]
    ..................................
    [/gag-order]

    [ Edited by Kronos 19.01.2014 - 18:53 ]
  • »19.01.14 - 18:07
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    I'm pretty sure the latter is generally not legal unless permitted by the author.



    Geee, Ben you really managed to fool us for so long...................



    That was low.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.01.14 - 18:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Would be even funnier if he refuses to issue any for OS4.

    I don't think you have to state your OS when ordering a keyfile as they are the same regardless of OS (and even MUI version). For at least 8 years he has issued generic (i.e. non-personalized) keyfiles anyway:

    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=290719
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29636&forum=2&start=240#511286
  • »19.01.14 - 21:55
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    In the long run, if Stephan doesn't object to his code being modified, all this discussion is pointless.
    OS4 users will benefit from this package, and maybe less code that is dependent on Reaction will be released.
    Maybe its time to be less combative about this subject.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.01.14 - 22:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Dates are just rough guestimates.

    Just to put some of them right:

    > - laire got the MUI3.8 sources sometime in 2001 and ported them to PPC
    > - this was released as MUI3.9 for MorphOS0.4 and went back into Stuntzi's SVN/CVS/?

    This was in 2000 and for MorphOS 0.2.

    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2000-05-00060-EN.html
    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2000-10-00364-EN.html

    > - ca 2012 some OS4 contributors started retrofitting MUI4.x features into the MUI3.9 source tree

    This happened earlier:

    "Thore at tboeckel @ gmx . de, man who works 3 long years to make MUI4 and a bunch of related classes from scratch to OS4."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6971
  • »19.01.14 - 23:14
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