An Open Letter to Dave Haynie
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    cha05e90
    Posts: 52 from 2010/6/23
    @itix
    Hmm - I'll prefer my A2000 for classic gaming... :-)
    II/G4
  • »16.06.11 - 18:12
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    @cha05e90

    It is too big, too rare, too weird... ;-)

    @hooligan

    Beer and classic games... nothing beats it :)
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »16.06.11 - 19:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    cha05e90,
    Quote:

    Really? I mean: Reeeeally? No E-UAE/WinUAE on your Mac or Win machines running OS1.x-3.x every now and then? :-)



    (In the immortal words of "The Dangerous Brothers" "Rea-he-he-he-HEALLY?")

    Yup. I have WinUEA installed on the laptop, but haven't used it since about 4 years ago (when I had regular commuting journeys which benefitted from the use of a laptop). Sold my two AT A4000Ts last year, which constituted the last of my 'classic' Amiga collection. Don't have an OS4.x capable machine...

    Current setup:
    XP laptop for surfing (soon to be replaced with (insert flavour) linux)
    MorphOS Mac-mini as video-output device (and currently audio output, but the groundplane interference from both USB and network are driving me schitz)

    Soon: Efika + Terratec Studio22 as audio output device, via Linux + MPD, through my Rogers A100 amp outputting via MS3.10 bass/treble speakers, a pair of deep-bass speakers (8" cones in 34" cabinets) and an active subwoofer (via the tape-out of the amp)...

    Sure would be nice to have MPD for MorphOS, but as we haven't implemented even 5.1 sound in a practically useful way yet (yes, AHI can handle multiple (>2) channels, but the API is "confusing" and no media player currently takes advantage of it..) it wouldn't be a practical use of resources imho.
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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    Windows free since 2011!
  • »16.06.11 - 23:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The Gateway version of Amiga, Inc. ran from 1997 until sometime in 1999.
    > Bill and fleecy founded their version of Amiga, Inc. that same year

    What I find interesting and haven't heard or read before is that in late 1999 Petro Tyschtschenko (head of Gateway subsidiary Amiga International) and Gateway had finalized a contract to transfer all Amiga assets (sans the patents I suppose) for the spectacular sum of $1. But before the appending of the signatures could happen, Amino turned up with 3 million USD and--not to anyone's surprise--was awarded the contract. Who knows what would have happened if Amiga had ended up in Tyschtschenko's hands instead of McEwen's, who Tyschtschenko then worked for for 15 months ;-)

    Sources: recent interviews with Petro Tyschtschenko (German; 1st interview MP3, 1st interview Ogg Vorbis, 2nd interview)

    Also there in more brief version:
    "Gateway asked me to find a new investor for Amiga. I suggested myself and Gateway agreed and some contracts were already drafted, but my investment was not that high and then Bill McEven showed up and made the deal."
    http://www.mos6502.com/friday-commodore/commodore-legends-petro-tyschtschenko/

    Trivia:
    Since at least April 2008, Petro Tyschtschenko has been the head of THTF Europe GmbH (founded in early 2007), which is the German subsidiary of the Chinese Tsinghua Tongfang (THTF) company, which in turn happens to be a company Genesi had once worked with on new PPC hardware as well as the likeliest developer and manufacturer of Hyperion's announced OS4 netbook. It's really a small world ;-)

    http://www.thtf.com.hk/Contact.aspx
    http://web.archive.org/web/20080924081446/http://www.thtf.com.hk/Contact.aspx
    http://www.5dmail.net/bbs/thread-175193-1-1.html
    http://www.google.com/search?q=tyschtschenko+%22tsinghua+tongfang%22+OR+thtf
    http://www.google.com/search?q=%22thtf+europe%22+2007


    Edit1: added link to another interview

    Edit2:

    It seems there were two THTF Europe GmbH companies: THTF Europe GmbH Roedermark (HRB 42759) existing from early 2007 to early/mid 2010, and THTF Europe GmbH Muenster (HRB 88907), existing from early/mid 2010 to 6 months ago (March 2012) when it was liquidated.

    Edit3: Quote from another interview added.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 10.05.2013 - 03:37 ]
  • »12.12.11 - 02:47
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1205 from 2003/6/17
    Any and all respect I had in DH just went out the window. What an ahole.
  • »12.12.11 - 16:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> AT in 1995 announced a Power Amiga for 1997

    > Petro said all kinds of things that weren't true. They were talking PowerPC then,
    > but doing absolutely nothing about it.

    Btw, I just stumbled upon a recent audio interview (German) with Petro where he claims that AT's announcement of switching the Amiga to PowerPC predates Apple's PowerPC plans. This is actually funny on more than one level, as Apple was not only considering the switch before AT, but had already been selling PowerPC Macs for 1 year and 8 months before AT made the announcement in November 1995.
  • »19.12.12 - 01:39
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Perhaps more importantly, Apple had officially joined the AIM alliance in 1991. They were not simply using PowerPC chips but were a key member of the industry alliance that defined new PowerPC computing standards.
  • »19.12.12 - 08:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Perhaps more importantly, Apple had officially joined the AIM alliance in
    > 1991. They were not simply using PowerPC chips but were a key member
    > of the industry alliance that defined new PowerPC computing standards.

    Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for reminding me. This turns Petro's claim from funny to outright hilarious.
  • »19.12.12 - 17:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> AT in 1995 announced a Power Amiga for 1997

    > Petro said all kinds of things that weren't true. They were talking PowerPC then,
    > but doing absolutely nothing about it.

    Seems Petro doesn't like much being reminded of his own former announcements and rather choses to deny them today:

    "Robby: In the interview I did with Dave Haynie, he states: "[...] They've also made some bad decisions, like PowerPC, that seemed to have become a kind of religion in the Amiga community." It seems he wasn't too keen on the whole 1200 and 4000T and especially not on the PowerPC approach. How do you look back at the PowerPC and Amiga venture?
    Petro: The most important issue was finding a new future technology for AMIGA, and at that time Apple also was on Power PC. There was some strategy from third parties on Power PC, but Amiga never performed under my direction on the Power PC platform. I was only building up the Amiga OS from 3.1 to 3.5.
    "
    http://www.mos6502.com/friday-commodore/commodore-legends-petro-tyschtschenko/

    He doesn't seem to remember that "his" OS3.5 was the AmigaOS version that introduced official PowerPC support (WarpOS).
  • »07.04.13 - 16:35
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Petro Tyschtschenko has been selling A1200s from a stash he apparently found in India (I believe).
    He's even signed a few.
    I certainly would have been nice to have him heading Ainc rather then Bill.

    But this is a long dead issue and Ainc has no real power over the Amiga market.

    While I'm not a big fan of Hyperion, at least they are selling something.
    And after several communications with Trevor Dickinson and Paul Gentle I really like A-eon and Varisys (the later being a very experienced professional company).

    I am wholly impressed with the X1000 and look forward to its successors.

    Perhaps if we go ARM and Hyperion continues with PPC we will each have our own niche within the community.
    And there would be Amigoid OS' running on X86, PPC, and ARM.

    BTW, I now longer support jettisoning legacy compatibility.
    After all, if we support the 3.1 API, we ought to support legacy code.

    And besides, there are a few old Amiga apps I'm rather fond of.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.04.13 - 03:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Petro Tyschtschenko has been selling A1200s from a stash he apparently found
    > in India (I believe).

    Yes, a former business partner from India Petro sold A1200 machines to during his Amiga days contacted Petro about the unsalable stock remains and asked him whether he should trash them or Petro wants to redeem them.

    Btw, this is how this stock arrived in India, according to Bill McEwen:

    "A portion of the Amiga operational budget came from the sale of the existing Amiga hardware and operations and we expected those revenues to help us stretch the initial funding so that we had time to properly get to the second round of funding for Amiga which was always planned. Think of my surprise when I learned that all of our inventory was sold for $75,000.00 to a company in India, when we were generating more than that on a monthly basis. This created a big operational hole for the company and caused us great harm in our ability to move forward. This hardware was not even put up for bid or auction, and nobody was consulted in the process."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=499442

    There are more details to this story told in an email exchange between Bill McEwen and Olaf "Olsen" Barthel, publicly documented as part of the Amiga Inc. vs. Hyperion court case filings.

    > He's even signed a few.

    AFAIK he has signed all of them. And you can read on the forums about many purchasers trying to wash his signature off again ;-)

    > While I'm not a big fan of Hyperion, at least they are selling something.

    Amiga Inc. is also selling something, as much as 26 products:

    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/vendor/21741/?lang=en

    > if we go ARM and Hyperion continues with PPC [...] there would be Amigoid OS'
    > running on X86, PPC, and ARM.

    AROS is already on ARM (and also on PPC to some extent).

    > I now longer support jettisoning legacy compatibility. After all, if we support
    > the 3.1 API, we ought to support legacy code.

    MorphOS on ARM (or x86) would most likely not have transparent m68k (or PPC) emulation:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=8369&start=81

    That's why the MorphOS Team would most likely use that opportunity to improve upon the 3.1 API through to a more modern but incompatible one.
  • »08.04.13 - 12:51
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    TomKeric
    Posts: 146 from 2013/2/18
    From: Stockholm
    Hi Andreas,

    I understood Aros is using some linux kernel to run on the RPi ARM. Isn't that a difference from actually running on ARM. Maybe you know and can explatin.

    Regardless it is cool they get the OS up on RPi - :)
    -If you've never failed, you've never tried -
  • »08.04.13 - 21:58
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 552 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    That's baloney. There's a native port actively being worked on, which already boots on the system.
    This is just like television, only you can see much further.
  • »08.04.13 - 22:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I understood Aros is using some linux kernel to run on the RPi ARM. Isn't tha
    > a difference from actually running on ARM. Maybe you know and can explatin.

    http://arosworld.org/news.php?readmore=285
    http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=80007#forumpost80007


    Edit: BSzili beat me to it.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 09.04.2013 - 00:39 ]
  • »08.04.13 - 22:38
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Jim,
    Quote:

    BTW, I now longer support jettisoning legacy compatibility.
    After all, if we support the 3.1 API, we ought to support legacy code.

    And besides, there are a few old Amiga apps I'm rather fond of.



    That's why we have UAE. 8-)

    I held that opinion until about 2 years ago. Now I think it is time to sh** can compatability in order to move forward. Most important PPC based apps are being maintained and can be ported. There is very little I will miss that can't be run under UAE(Due to PPC).

    That's all future anyhow, we still have G5 support upcoming. G5 will satisfy our PPC nostalgia for good. After G5, there is nowhere else to go on PPC.
  • »08.04.13 - 23:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > After G5, there is nowhere else to go on PPC.

    It seems like Sam460ex support will come after G5 :-)
  • »08.04.13 - 23:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    It seems like Sam460ex support will come after G5 :-)


    No offense intended to Acube, but I hardly consider Sam460ex a viable platform. That's just me...
  • »09.04.13 - 00:08
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Speaking of stolen work, there seems to be an ironic twist here:

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39661&forum=15&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

    [ Edited by Yasu 15.12.2014 - 11:53 ]
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  • »15.12.14 - 10:52
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1205 from 2003/6/17
    This the same thing?


    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=779862
  • »15.12.14 - 14:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1900 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Jim,
    Quote:

    BTW, I now longer support jettisoning legacy compatibility.
    After all, if we support the 3.1 API, we ought to support legacy code.

    And besides, there are a few old Amiga apps I'm rather fond of.



    That's why we have UAE. 8-)

    I held that opinion until about 2 years ago. Now I think it is time to sh** can compatability in order to move forward. Most important PPC based apps are being maintained and can be ported. There is very little I will miss that can't be run under UAE(Due to PPC).

    That's all future anyhow, we still have G5 support upcoming. G5 will satisfy our PPC nostalgia for good. After G5, there is nowhere else to go on PPC.


    Im in the same camp as Red here now. Do the Apple thing and just dump the legacy support to advance and move on to bigger and better things.
    AmigaOne X5000 with MorphOS Installed
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  • »15.12.14 - 16:29
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > This the same thing?
    > http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=779862

    Yes, MUI4 for OS3/m68k should use the same Autodocs as MUI4 for OS4/PPC. Apparently, they are also used for Zune on AROS:

    http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=92079#forumpost92079
  • »15.12.14 - 16:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1205 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > This the same thing?
    > http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=779862

    Yes, MUI4 for OS3/m68k should use the same Autodocs as MUI4 for OS4/PPC. Apparently, they are also used for Zune on AROS:

    http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=92079#forumpost92079


    After reading all of that I was appalled. Very disappointed that a for-profit company was distributing this and not immediately pulling it after knowing it was using code from another developer without permission. I talked to both AmiKit and another moderator about my thoughts on this subject. Hopefully it gets fixed. Otherwise its just a big fuck you to the dev that got his work used without permission.
  • »17.12.14 - 14:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > it was using code from another developer without permission.

    To be precise, as I wrote, it's about Autodocs, so documentation, not code. That's not to say this would make a difference regarding distribution rights, though.
  • »17.12.14 - 15:37
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1205 from 2003/6/17
    ok.. docs.. meant that instead of code.


    Basically..not giving credit for work done by someone else and just saying f you.

    [ Edited by TheMagicM 17.12.2014 - 09:40 ]
  • »17.12.14 - 15:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11575 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> Petro said all kinds of things that weren't true. They were talking PowerPC then,
    >> but doing absolutely nothing about it... maybe that was Petro's cozying up to
    >> Phase V to have something to sell.

    > Now you're being unfair towards Tyschtschenko here when you make it seem like this
    > "Power Amiga" thing was his pet idea alone. This press release is from November 1995
    > when Amiga Technologies still had a dual leadership consisting of both Petro
    > Tyschtschenko and Stefan Domeyer. And it seems they had the blessing of their boss
    > Manfred Schmitt, founder and chairman of Escom, who said only 4 days later: [...]

    Interesting info from Dave Haynie:

    "Amiga Technologies [...] contracted me to consult with them [...]. Andy Finkel was brought in similarly, to lead software development. We each presented proposals. Mine included two custom chips, "Pebbles" and "Bam-Bam", to define a PowerPC-based system on the level of an Amiga 500 or Amiga 1200, something that could sell for US$500 by1998. [...] Andy and I were in Germany, and while there, Amiga Technologies has kind of a PowerPC get-together. I had submitted a revised article, called "Power Amiga Strategy Report" [...]. This was in response to Amiga Technologies consideration of higher-end PPC systems as well. This also includes "The Power Amiga's" by P. Gillespie at ESCOM, which calls out a whole slew of systems for Amiga Technologies to build -- Mr. Gillespie was definitely more fanboi than engineer (I wasn't sure AT would have the resources to build whole new PPC system, at least if custom chip work -- via partners like IBM and Motorola -- were done). This folder also includes [...] a set of notes from Heinz Wrobel, who [...] suggested doing AmigaOS for PowerPC new from scratch, and completely off-the-shelf hardware [...], and a big presentation on "AMIGA PowerPC" from phase 5. The only note I took on that sheet: "What have these guys been smoking?". They got really deep into wanting a really fast Zorro IV custom expansion bus (at that point, there was absolutely no reason to use anything but PCI). They also has a feature list for graphics which was basically what AAA did, only with full hardware windowing... in short, another 3-5 year project. [...] Finally, this includes [...] a copy of the "Goal Definition and Sign Up" that we all signed: "The major aim is to provide a real competitive alternative to the Intel/Microsoft Monopoly."
    http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=131439932414

    Some photos:
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  • »01.03.15 - 21:08
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