ARM for the future?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 273 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Those Smartphones are so powerful that the this power is completely wasted at the moment.
    I think eventually we will only have one device. You take it with you and when you're at home, or work, you just plug it into something, you have your keyboard and a screen and you work on this device only.



    Manfred
  • »25.09.17 - 06:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 357 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Tell you what, YOU buy the extremely overpriced iPhone8, and I'll stick with my much more affordable Android phone.
    Apple fanatics creep me out almost as bad as Hare Krishnas.


    I didn't even mention the iPhone. I was talking about the processor.


    BTW I use a 4 year old Android phone.
  • »26.09.17 - 00:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9351 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I don't need a cell pone with a laptop grade cpu. [...] Cell phones may act as sort of a
    > substitute, if your into eye strain a sore thumbs, but I'm not joining the fixated tiny
    > screen zombies I everywhere in public these days.

    I guess the A11 (or maybe A11X variant) will be used in tablet computers as well ;-)
  • »26.09.17 - 01:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 897 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    minator wrote:
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    it's a monster! :-)


    That it is. Well into laptop performance levels:

    https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-8-benchmarks-fastest-phone,review-4676.html

    Quote:

    And interesting to see that Apple has gotten into GPU development now as well...


    They've been using semi-custom GPUs for years now. Looks like they've finally gone full custom now.


    Tell you what, YOU buy the extremely overpriced iPhone8, and I'll stick with my much more affordable Android phone.
    Apple fanatics creep me out almost as bad as Hare Krishnas.

    I don't need a cell pone with a laptop grade cpu.

    And btw, could we limit our discussion to computers?
    Cell phones may act as sort of a substitute, if your into eye strain a sore thumbs, but I'm not joining the fixated tiny screen zombies I everywhere in public these days. Its a little too much like crawling up your own asshole.


    I couldn't work as effectively as I do without this on my Oneplus 3, https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Main_Page

    Time is money. ;)
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

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  • »26.09.17 - 16:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9351 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > "MACOM intends to divest AppliedMicro’s well-positioned Compute business
    > within 100 days from closing the transaction

    The 100 days plan didn‘t quite work out:

    MACOM [...] today announced that it has entered into an agreement to sell the Compute business it acquired in its AppliedMicro acquisition earlier this year to Project Denver Holdings LLC (NewCo), a new company backed by The Carlyle Group.
    https://www.macom.com/about/news-and-events/press-release-archive/row-col1/news--event-archive/macom-announces-successful-dives

    > Regarding the Embedded Processing business (which the PPC-based SoCs and
    > the ARM-based HeliX SoCs belong to), page 11 of this presentation reads like
    > MACOM is going to keep it ("Solid Cash Flow Business"), as opposed to the
    > Compute business comprised of X-Gene ("Active Sale Process to Divest").
    > As for how they could sell the X-Gene line but keep the HeliX line, this is somewhat
    > of a mystery to me considering both lines are based on the same core IP (Potenza).
    > John Croteau, MACOM president and CEO, on the other hand has to say:
    > "the embedded PowerPC part of the portfolio may be part of the divestiture; it may
    > not be. Depends which buyer, frankly. It’s a cash cow either way, to be honest."

    The PPC-based SoCs remain at Macom, apparently:

    "“Excluded Assets” shall mean all of Seller’s and its Affiliates’ right, title and interest in, to and under all assets not included as a Purchased Asset, including [...] the Seller’s “Connectivity” and “PowerPC” product lines [...]. [...] “Excluded Liabilities” shall mean all of the Liabilities of Seller and its Affiliates other than those set forth on Appendix C, including [...] any Liabilities of Seller or any Affiliates of Seller with respect to the winding down or termination of the PowerPC business"
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1493594/000119312517322214/d462503dex21.htm
  • »05.11.17 - 23:05
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 357 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    Project Denver Holdings LLC (NewCo), a new company backed by The Carlyle Group.[/i]“


    Curious choice of name, Project Denver was the code name of Nvidia's v8 core.

    In other news Cray are going ARM (Camium X2).

    Qualcomm are shipping their 48 core monster and it's getting some very good numbers.
  • »24.11.17 - 22:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2433 from 2003/2/24
    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »24.11.17 - 23:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9351 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Cray are going ARM (Camium X2).

    You mean Cavium (soon Marvell) ThunderX2? If yes, that‘s a nice use for the Vulcan core acquired from Broadcom.
  • »24.11.17 - 23:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 897 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-first-windows-10-arm-pcs-20-hour-battery-life-gigabit-lte/
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  • »06.12.17 - 15:28
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4305 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-first-windows-10-arm-pcs-20-hour-battery-life-gigabit-lte/


    The long battery life could be something that would draw me. I'm tired of being tethered to an outlet.
    But native ARM applications are going to be a must, X86 apps that use any serious power will definitely slow this platform down.
    Still, as it will run all Windows applications, it would be a nice bridge between ISA/devices.


    [ Edited by Jim 06.12.2017 - 19:50 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.12.17 - 00:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2433 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-first-windows-10-arm-pcs-20-hour-battery-life-gigabit-lte/


    The long battery life could be something that would draw me. I'm tired of being tethered to an outlet.
    But native ARM applications are going to be a must, X86 apps that use any serious power will definitely slow this platform down.
    Still, as it will run all Windows applications, it would be a nice bridge between ISA/devices.



    Windows itself will be native of course, as will all of its components and drivers, as well ass Microsofts own productivity SW, Internet SW and media SW. Speed in the video showing the emulated Photoshop session above in this thread is totally acceptable IMHO, and that test was conducted on an "old", existing ARM CPU. New CPU's come, and with Microsoft doing this move, opening the gates so to say, more CPU's aimed and taylored for real laptops (and maybe even desktops down the road?) will definitely follow.

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »07.12.17 - 07:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9351 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > it will run all Windows applications

    Only x86, i.e. 32-bit ones (while native AArch64 applications will be supported, of course).
  • »07.12.17 - 08:51
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4305 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > it will run all Windows applications

    Only x86, i.e. 32-bit ones (while native AArch64 applications will be supported, of course).


    Ah, missed that, no 64bit compatibility. Not that big a deal, but interesting.
    And the emulation speed, instead of acceptable, I'd rather term it adequate.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.12.17 - 14:55
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 893 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Windows itself will be native of course, as will all of its components and drivers, as well ass Microsofts own productivity SW, Internet SW and media SW. Speed in the video showing the emulated Photoshop session above in this thread is totally acceptable IMHO, and that test was conducted on an "old", existing ARM CPU.

    The 32bit memory restrictions are a serious limitation when you deal with many, heavily layered, large resolution and / or high color depth files (or even videos which Photoshop can in fact edit).

    Just merely painting with high resolution brushes can make many high-performance systems struggle to avoid noticeable lag.

    Of course, basic photo editing should be just fine. But you do not need Photoshop for that either. (Photoshop Elements should suffice.) The implication is that people will be able to use "pro tools" on ARM via x86 emulation and, while technically true, I would keep expectations reasonably modest in that regard.

    I was surprised to read the price points that were mentioned for some of these ARM systems this week. Asus and HP will charge around 800 EUR per device next year. For comparison, you can buy, say, a Dell XPS 13 with 14 to 15 hours of battery time for around the same price today and that will get you the full x64 experience without the forementioned limitations.
  • »07.12.17 - 19:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2433 from 2003/2/24
    @ASiegel

    I wasn’t aware of any 32-bit limitation until I learned about it from Andreas above. I wonder about the reason? I recall Ben Hermans mentioning legal issues Microsoft was having regarding the ISA emulation at AW.net, but I discarded that as usual BH BS. Could that be the reason? Legal protectionism surrounding the 64-bit ISA?

    And regarding the price you mention, that was surprising as well. I understood it as the ARM move was MS’s way of reaching ultra-cheap segments...?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »07.12.17 - 20:34
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 897 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/11/08/qualcomm-centriq-2400-worlds-first-10nm-server-processor
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  • »08.12.17 - 19:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9351 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> I recall Ben Hermans mentioning legal issues Microsoft was having regarding
    >>> the ISA emulation at AW.net, but I discarded that as usual BH BS.

    >> He was probably referring to this: [...]

    > That refers to Intel's x86 ISA not AMD's AMD64 ISA so it wouldn't explain the
    > lack of 64bit support.

    Yes, I only replied to what I quoted :-) Or was Ben Hermans referring to x64 ISA specifically?
  • »08.12.17 - 19:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9351 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/11/08/qualcomm-centriq-2400-worlds-first-10nm-server-processor

    I guess that's what minator referred to two weeks ago in comment #931.
  • »08.12.17 - 19:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 897 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> I recall Ben Hermans mentioning legal issues Microsoft was having regarding
    >>> the ISA emulation at AW.net, but I discarded that as usual BH BS.

    >> He was probably referring to this: [...]

    > That refers to Intel's x86 ISA not AMD's AMD64 ISA so it wouldn't explain the
    > lack of 64bit support.

    Yes, I only replied to what I quoted :-) Or was Ben Hermans referring to x64 ISA specifically?


    No idea Andreas, I'd rather have my teeth drilled than read his drivel lol
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  • »08.12.17 - 21:47
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