• Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I used the generic term "computer" with intention. Why targetting that specific CPU?

    You don't have to, albeit it's fast in terms of Power Architecture (but expensive also). For other Power Architecture CPUs see the sentence I wrote next, starting with "likewise...".

    > Who cares about CPUs nowadays?

    The OS does, as well as its transparent m68k emulation. That's why it must be a Power Architecture CPU, for now at least. And additionally, the CPU shouldn't be too underperforming. I consider the performance of my 1.5 GHz G4 the absolute minimum for my needs in terms of desktop computing (while a netbook or similar could go as low as an 800 MHz e300 to satisfy me).

    > I mention bPlan because, what a coincidence, Gerald Carda and Thomas Knabel
    > designed glorious hardware for the Amiga back in the day. I thing that would indeed
    > be an incentive for die hard amigans, if used in marketing.

    Remember, these "die hard amigans" chose relabelled Teron boards over bplan's Pegasos. I doubt it would make any difference to them if a new "AmigaOne" board was developed by bplan instead of Varisys as long as it (or the full system containing that board) is labelled "Amiga something". And honestly, it wouldn't make a difference to me today either (except for the name part of course, which has never mattered to me). A commissional work is really just that, no need to get emotional. If Varisys is as good as bplan at designing a board to the predefined specs, then I see no advantage in not choosing Varisys. And as I can see, Varisys has past experience with PA6T and MPC86xx, which bplan may not have.

    > Is the PA Semi part the thing that's making the X1000 so bloody expensive?

    In the interview you've linked to it's said that "just the CPU is 400-450 euro". So it definitely has it's part in the high price of the X1000. But I must admit that I really don't know why the beta Nemo board alone (including RAM) is as much as 1400 EUR, which is a discounted figure even (according to A-Eon). Can we assume that the insane price is mainly due to A-Eon's high profit margin (in addition to the small batch size)? I don't know. In any case, I doubt that the price is due to Varisys (and not bplan or else) being the board developers.
    Let's imagine for a moment that they'd get the PA6T part for free. Then the board would still be barely below the 1000 EUR mark. Still no sane figure for a mainboard with RAM.

    > Is it a very fast CPU? Heck, who needs that in an Amiga?

    If you intend to use this "Amiga" as your everyday computer (like I do with my MorphOS Mac mini, which is easy because I can temporarily switch to MacOSX or Linux for applications MorphOS is lacking) then a CPU as fast as possible can't hurt for sure. See my arguments there:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7186&forum=11&post_id=74398#74398

    >> with or without XCore

    > Another mistake.

    Yes, probably. I only mentioned the XCore because you wrote: "insist in making them solder down one of those rare Transputer things, to have that "unique" spec no one else has".

    > I wonder about how much time they took to decide the hardware specs.

    According to Trevor Dickinson at the VCF in June, Hermans got the very rough idea for an own hardware at (or shortly before) the time Hyperion was sued by Amiga Inc., i.e. around or before April 2007. About one year later they decided for the CPU and the (still unknown to us) CPU supplier, who suggested Varisys as a design company with experience regarding that CPU. In early 2009, Varisys was commissioned to develop the board according to the specs and the real development began.
    Just for comparison: Sampling of the PA6T started in February 2007, volume production in early 2008 (at TI's fabs, I believe), but only for a very short time, because in April 2008 P.A.Semi was purchased by Apple. In July 2008 it became known that Apple would supply the PA6T for at least 3 years (and upto 5 years) and explore selling the design to a third party after that time. In September 2008, Apple started volume production of the chip again.

    >> I don't see anything bad per se in choosing Varisys over bplan.

    > Nor anything good.

    But there is: past experience with the PA6T.

    > No amiga market experience, for a start.

    That's not needed for the company designing the board as a commissional work according to predefined specs. The "amiga market" is to be entered by A-Eon and AmigaKit.

    > bPlan's experience might have been the only sane part of the project.

    Why do you think so? AFAIK, bplan don't have any past experience with the PA6T.

    > I seem to recall comments from Matt "Neko" Sealey on "powerdeveloper.org",
    > saying they indeed had problems with the first version of the MPC5200. It's possible
    > I'm putting those into the MorphOS port, and they weren't.

    As you probably remember, in early 2005 there was an internal MorphOS port to Freescale's Media5200 system with Lite5200 board, which at that time had the MPC5200 (without "B"). The switch from MPC5200 to MPC5200B took place in the second half of 2005, and the Lite5200 became the Lite5200B. There's a chance that MorphOS had the problems you remember on the Media5200/Lite5200, and not on the Efika 5200.

    > for a while, this Pegasos/MorphOS combination existed withoout the Thendic term existing.

    But only as an announcement, not as a product. There was no Pegasos/MorphOS combination as a product before Thendic entered the game. And even after that, it took a while for the Pegasos/MorphOS combination to become a product.

    > could it be that bPlan made the Pegasos out of Thendic's wallet, to some extent?

    "Made" as in "manufactured in more than single prototype batches"? Sure. "Made" as in "developed"? Not quite. Thendic began financing bplan, who had announced the Pegasos one year before, in November 2001, presumably after them visiting the AMIGA 2001 show in Cologne where bplan were publically showing their non-prototype (i.e. microATX) Pegasos board for the first time (and running MorphOS). I'm sure though that without Thendic's (and later Genesi's) money bplan wouldn't have survived the Articia/MAI/April mess which began in September 2002. They would have been economically forced to either close down without releasing the Pegasos at all or release the Pegasos without the expensive but required April fix (and close down subsequently due to warranty claims). Thendic/Genesi were the ones making bplan and the Pegasos survive this mess, no doubt about that.
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