>Why? 2 new systems plus 1 new XCore card amounts to 3 new products. So I'd say that this year's statement is very much coherent with last year's statement.

true, but what's the Xcore board for? An Acube add on?

>True, and 3 is a couple, isn't it?

Actually, what Trev said was at least a couple. Apparently they may have been exploring more then the three they settled on.

>...not to forget considering this:

>No, don't want to forget that. But I'm still more interested in what A-eon pays to develop.
Paul's stuff can be pretty pricey. Although he did have a really neat Xcore design early in the life cycle of that product.

I am very impressed with Varisys and can't think of any other company designing PPC boards with a better record of bringing announced projects to market.
And Paul Gentle has been a good source for advice.

> what's the Xcore board for? An Acube add on?

There's a short note about that there:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35667&forum=16&start=400#685542

According to this, there should be more info on the XCore board in that video (which I haven't watched yet):

http://blip.tv/bios/hazelwood-on-xena-and-xorro-6432644 (direct link)

According to a note from Lyle Hazelwood during Trevor's AmiWest 2012 presentation (direct link, Youtube), the XCore board has been specifically designed for the X1000's Xorro slot and thus won't work in anything else.

>> 3 is a couple, isn't it?

> Actually, what Trev said was at least a couple.

Even just 2 would be "at least a couple" to my understanding. So 3 is even 50% more than the minimum required to comply with that statement :-)

> Apparently they may have been exploring more then the three they settled on.

I'd be surprised if it's really more than the XCore board and the two new systems. That's not to mean that Varisys couldn't handle more, but rather that A-Eon can't pay for development of more at a time.

> I [...] can't think of any other company designing PPC boards with a better
> record of bringing announced projects to market.

There are dozens of companies designing PPC boards out there but I've yet to conduct a survey examining the announcement-release ratio of those companies to come to any such conclusion like you have ;-)


Edit: Added link to the AmiWest video.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 20.11.2012 - 23:26 ]

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

I'm astounded that they can pay for what they are developing now.
No, what I meant was that they may have considered other options.
Not that they actively poured money into development.

Its obvious they are thinking low end, high end, and Xcore add on.

And while I like Xcore, and have explored it, I'm no more into that then the Parallax Propeller or the multitude of ARM based MCUs.
I hope A-eon doesn't focus too much on Xcore.
Its a rather limited technology that may be less powerful then a FPGA.

I wish there was something better then OS4.1 to run on A-eon boards (or Ubuntu as I can run that on an X86 or ARM).
Maybe I've been a little hasty about AROS.

> what I meant was that they may have considered other options.
> Not that they actively poured money into development.

For instance? The netbook form factor is supposed to come from Hyperion. What would that leave for A-Eon? A tablet?

> I hope A-eon doesn't focus too much on Xcore.

That's my hope too. I think XCore is of no real use in the market A-Eon resides in with the X1000 and possible future successors.

> I wish there was something better then OS4.1 to run on A-eon boards
> (or Ubuntu as I can run that on an X86 or ARM).

No OS4 and no OS that can also run on x86 or ARM leaves only MorphOS, right? :-)

> Maybe I've been a little hasty about AROS.

You mean AROS/PPC running hosted on Linux/PPC on an A-Eon PPC board? But then, AROS also runs natively on x86 and thus wouldn't meet your premise of an OS you'd wish to run on any A-Eon PPC board.
Btw, about native AROS/PPC on the X1000:

"AROS is now running on PPC SAMs & Sam Crow has said he would see about getting it going on the A1 & X1000, something I asked about at Amiwest."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36695&forum=16&start=120#686212

>> what I meant was that they may have considered other options.
>> Not that they actively poured money into development.

>For instance? The netbook form factor is supposed to come from >Hyperion. What would that leave for A-Eon? A tablet?

Well, as total speculation, even simpler boards like a micro-itx, a PCIe plug-in board, tablets like you mentioned, other processors (outside of the likely Qorlq components). Since they're pretty close mouthed its hard to say.

However, in all likelihood, pretty much what we've been speculating about (although the e6500 looks less likely now with the lowered clock speeds).

> simpler boards like a micro-itx

Is "micro-itx" a hybrid between micro-ATX and mini-ITX? ;-)

> a PCIe plug-in board, tablets like you mentioned

Okay.

> other processors (outside of the likely Qorlq components).

A-Eon was established to provide hardware for OS4, which is an OS running on Power Architecture. I don't think there's currently any better choice than using QorIQ chips for that.

> the e6500 looks less likely now with the lowered clock speeds

Comment regarding Trevor's AmiWest 2012 presentation:

"They were talking about the brilliant future with ppc dual core e6500"
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36670&forum=16&start=100#685249

(...with "core" meaning "thread" here obviously). So I still think A-Eon eventually aim for the e6500 core, but as the PA6T chip will not be available for much longer and the chips with e6500 cores have just started sampling, they desperately need(ed) the chips with e5500 cores as an interim solution to be able to start development of new hardware just after Nemo v2.1 was finalized. I wrote about that there:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7183&start=817

>Is "micro-itx" a hybrid between micro-ATX and mini-ITX?

Yes, mini-ITX, sorry

As far as everything else goes, I'd say you were dead on. The e5500 has a clock speed lead right now. Eventually, the e6500 may catch up and its multi-threaded. Also, the number of cores that will be offered on e6500 cored products almost borders on the silly.

But for right now. Both you, and I, and a few others like Magnetic and AmigaDave are apparently going to get our wish and see some new (and really cool) PPC products introduced.

Unfortunately they will run the wrong OS.

> The e5500 has a clock speed lead right now. Eventually, the e6500 may
> catch up and its multi-threaded.

Multi-threading may or may not be true for the e6500 core variant to be used in the T5 (provided the T5 has not been cancelled anyway, that is). Refer to:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=728

> the number of cores that will be offered on e6500 cored products
> almost borders on the silly.

...for use in desktop-centric systems like A-Eon's, yes. Should the T5 arrive, it will have less (but higher clocked) cores than T4 with its current maximum of 12 cores in the T4240. The 4-core T2080 is an interesting chip as well btw.

> Both you, and I, and a few others like Magnetic and AmigaDave are apparently going
> to get our wish and see some new (and really cool) PPC products introduced.

I don't know about amigadave, but judging by Magnetic's past postings on that matter I'm quite sure that new PPC hardware (and a port of OS4 or MorphOS to it) is not what Magnetic wishes for.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Actually, now that you mention it, as an upgrade path for MorphOS, BOTH Mag AND David would probably prefer a G5.
David already has one (and is eventually supposed to send me one), and you've pointed out to me that Magnetic has supported the G5 path.

I like the idea of a G5 port, but if I had to choose...well new hardware would be nice (regardless of cost).
It doesn't seem likely that we would see both paths pursued, does it Andreas?

> you've pointed out to me that Magnetic has supported the G5 path.

That was before he changed his opinion into better advancing the OS usability by spending resources for proper software development instead of porting the OS to G5 (or another ISA than PPC).

> I like the idea of a G5 port, but if I had to choose...well new hardware would be nice
> (regardless of cost). It doesn't seem likely that we would see both paths pursued,
> does it Andreas?

Yes, taking the scarce development resources into accout I think you're right on that. So I believe it's either a port to G5 Macs or to new PPC hardware.

Update:

> No prices for the QorIQ P5 yet.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6196&forum=11&start=174

Addendum:

>> I like the idea of a G5 port, but if I had to choose...well new
>> hardware would be nice (regardless of cost). It doesn't seem likely
>> that we would see both paths pursued, does it Andreas?

> Yes, taking the scarce development resources into accout I think you're right
> on that. So I believe it's either a port to G5 Macs or to new PPC hardware.

https://morph.zone/modules/news/article_storyid_1978.html

But then:

"Bounty timeframe: 3 months after the programmer receives the machine"

This sounds really ambitious.

Oh that is SO nice.
And AmigaDave owe me a G5 Power mac.
Not to mention I've got loads of video cards that will work in one.

Hey everybody, this is a natural for Radeon 9600 and 9800 video cards.

Update:

> https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=745
>
> I can imagine that Varisys base the Nemo successor(s) on their VM400 product,
> which would mean that the 2 new A-Eon systems could be a cheaper lower end
> system with P3041 chip running at, say, 1.2 GHz, and a more expensive higher
> end system with P5020 chip at 2.2 GHz, all using the same basic board design
> thanks to the pin compatibility of the chips.

A slide from Trevor's AmiWest 2012 presentation (direct link, Youtube) reads like this:

"Future PowerPC Possibilities
[...]
- e500mc : 32-bit, quad-core - Mid-level machine
- e5500 : 64-bit, dual-core - Power machine"

This goes very much in line with my speculations above. A quad-e500mc chip (running at 1.5 GHz, which Trevor mentions in his talk) would mean either the P3041 or the P4040 (P2041 wouldn't be pin-compatible), and a dual-e5500 chip (running at 2.2 GHz, also mentioned by Trevor) would mean either the P5020 or the P5021.
The codenames for those two Nemo successors seem to be "Cyrus" and "Breezin" (don't know which is which). Trevor adds: "These will not be ready for a long time."

Update:

>> the e6500 looks less likely now with the lowered clock speeds

> Comment regarding Trevor's AmiWest 2012 presentation:
> "They were talking about the brilliant future with ppc dual core e6500"
> http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=36670&forum=16&start=100#685249
>
> (...with "core" meaning "thread" here obviously). So I still think A-Eon eventually
> aim for the e6500 core

From Trevor's AmiWest 2012 presentation (direct link, Youtube) on the prospect of A-Eon products based on chips with e6500 cores:

"That will be my wildest dreams. That will be a real replacement for the X1000 down the road, but that's not gonna be in the next year or two."

Addendum:

>> https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=745
>>
>> I can imagine that Varisys base the Nemo successor(s) on their VM400 product,
>> which would mean that the 2 new A-Eon systems could be a cheaper lower end
>> system with P3041 chip running at, say, 1.2 GHz, and a more expensive higher
>> end system with P5020 chip at 2.2 GHz, all using the same basic board design
>> thanks to the pin compatibility of the chips.

> A slide from Trevor's AmiWest 2012 presentation (direct link, Youtube) reads like this:
> "Future PowerPC Possibilities
> [...]
> - e500mc : 32-bit, quad-core - Mid-level machine
> - e5500 : 64-bit, dual-core - Power machine"
>
> This goes very much in line with my speculations above. A quad-e500mc chip
> (running at 1.5 GHz, which Trevor mentions in his talk) would mean either the P3041
> or the P4040 (P2041 wouldn't be pin-compatible) [...]

Apparently, the P3041 is more likely than the P4040 to be able to share a motherboard design with the P50xx:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37074&forum=14#693507

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Good thinking. I'm not sure they've even considered this yet.
Hopefully, Paul will have done a similar analysis or they check out that comment.
I'm convinced that you're right and that one board that could serve multiple CPUs at a variety of price ranges make the most sense.

> Good thinking.

...performed by olegil over at amigaworld.net :-)

> I'm not sure they've even considered this yet. Hopefully, Paul will
> have done a similar analysis or they check out that comment.

Looking at Varisys' VM400 product, which I've been referring to every so often here during the last 3.5 months, I'm sure that they have not only considered this but have even implemented this very idea already.
Whether they will use this idea for new A-Eon products can only be speculated of course, but it wouldn't make sense not to, especially considering that A-Eon has quasi-announced both a cheaper lower-end e500mc-based product and a more expensive higher-end e5500-based product to be released concurrently.

Update:

> APM86691 and APM86692 ("Black Mamba") got announced running at up to 1.4 GHz:
> http://investor.apm.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=78121&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1702760
> http://www.apm.com/products/embedded/multicore460/apm86692/

Not only was Green Mamba degraded from announced 1.5 GHz to 1.2 GHz, now also Black Mamba seems to have been degraded from announced 1.4 GHz to 1.3 GHz:

"In fiscal 2012, we introduced the APM8669x "Black Mamba", the highest performance member of our second generation of PACKETpro embedded processors. While PACKETpro is our second-generation of embedded processors, it is the first to feature offload acceleration of critical features at performance levels up to 1.3 GHz."
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000144530513001456/amcc0331201310-k.htm


Edit: Now also reflected on their new website:

"The Green Mamba offers all of the capabilities of the Black Mamba with the exceptions that it supports two GigE ports and a 1.2GHz max processor frequency. [...] The Black Mamba family consists of single and dual core processors that operate [...] to 1.3GHz."
http://www.apm.com/products/embedded/mamba-family/

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 28.10.2013 - 23:32 ]

Update:

> The codenames for those two Nemo successors seem to be "Cyrus" and "Breezin"
> (don't know which is which). Trevor adds: "These will not be ready for a long time."

2 new mainboards, both having "CYRUS" written on them:
http://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1053269_644611952215860_764920679_o.jpg
(confusingly enough, "Breezin" seems to be both the codename of the Cyrus v1 and v2 boards and of the complete Cyrus v2 system, as well as a reference in old Commodore Amiga tradition that was also followed with the Nemo board.)

PCB schematics and other pictures:
http://obligement.free.fr/gfx/cyrusplus_prototype2.jpg
http://obligement.free.fr/gfx/cyrus_prototype1.jpg

"Cyrus is the MicroATX board [...] and Cyrus+ is full ATX just like the current X1000."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37872&forum=16&start=20#711574

"I can confirm that there's no south bridge on boards."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37872&forum=16&start=40#711587

"Both boards have a P5020. Trevor said that I P5040 will be an option at some point. The Cyrus, MicroATX board had the SOC mounted on a small carier card so it may be that they have already been using a P5040 in testing on that board."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37872&forum=16&start=40#711591

"The current hope is to have beta testing programme ready for around the time of Amiwest."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37872&forum=16&start=40#711600

"The two Cyrus boards were the first & second prototypes (the second barely being finished in time for the show). [...] it sounded like they've got some flexibility/choice on which CPU they eventually end-up using anyway."
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=80220#forumpost80220

"Cyrus will have a 5020 CPU, which is dual core, and runs at 2GHz. It takes DDR3 RAM. Eventually it should also run a 5040, which is pin-compatible, quad-core, and runs at 2.4GHz. (This CPU is very new, so they are awaiting pricing, availability, etc.) So the Cyrus design should last a long time. They hope to start beta-testing it by AmiWest, but it won't be on sale for a long time (perhaps a year or more). It will require entirely new motherboard drivers, but at least for beta-testing they will likely use PCI(-E?) cards for sound & networking. Cyrus is planned to be a full ATX formfactor, but they MAY also do a smaller version (undecided)."
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=80222#forumpost80222

"The first prototype was the smaller board, the second prototype was the full-sized ATX board. So there COULD be two boards, it isn't decided yet. No doubt they will eventually have one board with different CPU options (e.g. dual-core & quad-core)."
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=80224#forumpost80224

Further information from an Interview with Trevor on CYRUS:
- Xena/Xorro is onboard
- the older (and smaller) one of the 2 prototype boards is from 2012

Close-ups of the CYRUS+ board:
http://oi43.tinypic.com/1zbtlk9.jpg
http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/CyrusPlus.jpg
http://obligement.free.fr/gfx/cyrusplus_prototype.jpg
http://amigaone.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/x5000_radek_01.jpg
http://amigaone.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/x5000_radek_02.jpg

From Trevor:
"While the AmigaONE X1000 remains A-EON's flagship product, we were also there to see the latest prototype of a new motherboard that we had commissioned Varisys to design. The new board, codenamed Cyrus Plus, will be an eventual replacement for the Nemo board. The revision 2.0 prototype contains a Freescale P5020 CPU which is a 2 GHz, 64-bit dual-core PowerPC SoC. The Cyrus Plus board will also accept the new P5040 when it becomes commercially available in greater volume. This is a 64-bit quad-core PowerPC Freescale CPU which operates up to 2.4 GHz. As with Nemo, the new board will now undergo a rigorous testing phase before a small batch is produced for developers. Once that process is complete an additional batch of boards will be manufactured for a reduced beta test programme, which all being well will commence towards the end of this year. The first Cyrus prototype board was completed at the end of last year. It's replacement, the Cyrus Plus 2.0 was delivered to Varisys just two days prior to the show and both prototype boards were on display at the Silicon Dreams show [...]"
http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=3943

"it will have a Xena/Xorro combination. [...] unfortnately the smaller factor board did not really reduce the cost of manufacture very much ..especially when you factor in NRE
So we decided to concentrate on the larger board for the timebeing. [...] We took a concious decision a while back to provide sound with a PCI or PCIe card."
http://www.intuitionbase.com/trevor_irclog.txt

"The Cyrus development is the future replacement for the Nemo motherboard when the supply of P.A. Semi CPUs finally dries up or the price becomes commercially unviable. The Cyrus board was the original Revision 1.0 prototype and was completed towards the end of last year. Cyrus Plus is the Revision 2.0 board which includes additional PCIe and PCI slots. The Cyrus design is based on the Freescale P5020 CPU which is a dual-core 64-bit PowerPC SoC. It also supports DDR3 RAM and includes an improved Xena/Xorro combination. [...] we are including Xena/Xorro capability on the future Cyrus hardware."
http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwdickinson2_en.php

"Two prototype boards for future AmigaOne machines were on display. The Cyrus and its first revision, the Cyrus 2.0 /Cyrus +, are evolutions of the Nemo board from the AmigaOne X1000. [...] AmigaOS 4.1/4.2 onwards is not the only OS being considered, and although the Cyrus+ started as a revision of the first Cyrus, serious thought is being put into developing both board sizes to final product, both of which can use Freescales 5020 dual-core 64-bit PPC processor and its 5040 quad-core bigger brother, among other CPUs."
http://amigaone.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/micro-mart-july-18-2013-uk-silicon-dreams.pdf

"Cyrus entered development a little while ago and at Silicon Dreams 2013, Trevor from A-Eon put Cyrus (Mk 1) and Cyrus+ (Mk 2) boards on display. The Cyrus Plus 2.0 [...] is a larger (fullsize ATX) board than the Cyrus micro-ATX board, and although it's officially the mark-two version of the board, Trevor is not ruling out the development of both board sizes. [...] The Cyrus Plus 2.0 is designed to take SoC processors from Freescale's P50x0 line with the 2GHz 64-bit dual-core P5020 being the initial target CPU, although it will support the P5040 quad-core 2.4GHz unit when commercially viable. [...] We're talking second prototype here, though, so testing, development and then a small run for a closed beta test will have to take place before a release candidate is selected, so 18 months at the least. [...] The next motherboard for AmigaOS (which may also support MorphOS and Linux)"
http://amigaone.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/micro-mart-15-august-2013-cyrus.pdf

Edit: Added some more quotes and info.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 25.10.2015 - 14:53 ]

Any further information available on the T1042?

> Any further information available on the T1042?

None that I know of.

>None that I know of.

Pity, the lower end chips look interesting.

With Trevor locking into the P5020 and P5040, we miss some of the features included in later Qorlq products.
And the lack of AltiVec is regrettable.


[ Edited by Jim 26.07.2013 - 02:48 ]

> Trevor locking into the T5020 and T5040

I guess you're thinking far ahead here ;-) T5 may not even come.

Sorry, I forgot about that.
Corrected.
I also really like to e6500 cored products.

We could still use a vendor that sells relative "low-cost" systems like Acube (but with more powerful processors).