Update:

> It could be a typo of some sort. The other two Applied Micro
> processor families that are supported by Abatron but are missing
> in that press release's list are 821xx and 832xx/Gemini. So
> "836xx" could mean one of those.

Seems I was right. They corrected "836xx" to "83xxx". And I see now that they made the same mistake 10 months ago already, obviously going unnoticed so far:

http://www.abatron.ch/news/support-for-appliedmicro-s-apm821xx.html

Exactly. Thanks to your attention to detail and my e-mail - they changed it.

Abatron:
Hi

This is a error, it should read 83xxx. We will fix this.

Thanks,
Abatron Support

Of course this means their product supports Titan, which in itself is interesting.

[ Edited by Jim on 2011/2/24 17:23 ]

> this means their product supports Titan, which in
> itself is interesting.

Yes, this is a known fact. I linked to their January 2010's press release in December 2010 here in this very thread:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&post_id=80181#80181

Furthermore, I documented Abatron's support for Titan/Gemini in another thread:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6268&forum=11&post_id=79905#79905

It's a pity that they had to drop that project. It seems more capable than Mamba.
So many companies announced support for Titan that there would appear to have been a large number of evaluation systems in the hands of developers.
At 1.5Ghz, the Mamba doesn't appear to be that competitive with Freescale's P20XX.

> It seems more capable than Mamba.

I'm not sure if Mamba is really less capable than Gemini. For instance, Mamba has a DDR3 memory controller whereas Gemini only has a DDR2 memory controller. Is there even one single technical spec where Gemini outdoes Mamba?

> At 1.5Ghz, the Mamba doesn't appear to be that
> competitive with Freescale's P20XX.

I think that depends on which QorIQ P20xx you compare Mamba to specifically. Mamba is clearly superior to e500v2 based P2010/2020, but e500mc based P2040 could be about on par with Mamba (not taking into account the difference in CPU core amounts, that is).

Quote:

I'd say your comparison of the 2040 to Mamba is fair. But what we really ought to be comparing are the 5500 cored products.
Unless APM releases something similar to the 64bit products you've mentioned before, then they don't have anything close to that line.

> I'd say your comparison of the 2040 to Mamba is fair.

And my comparison of P2010/2020 to Mamba isn't? ;-)

> what we really ought to be comparing are the
> 5500 cored products.

You and me know very well that regarding capability and performance Mamba stands no chance compared to QorIQ P5. So that's a no-brainer, really.

> Unless APM releases something similar to the 64bit
> products you've mentioned before, then they don't have
> anything close to that line.

Absolutely.

> when I discussed PPC based systems with the owner of Varisys
> (the designers of the X1000 motherboard) I got this response:
> "In terms of PPC we are thinking QorIQ here for higher end designs."

Apparently, they've started to follow suit:

"XMC/PMC [...] VM400 (XMC) QorIQ Pxxxx"
"COM Express [...] VPX1 QorIQ P1022"
"PC104 [...] MC104PRQ QorIQ P2022"
http://www.varisys.co.uk/products.html

It's a pity we don't have the resources need to play this game.
Varisys could probably design a killer P5010 board for our market.

> Varisys could probably design a killer P5010 board for our market.

That's kind of what A-Eon's plan seems to be:

"Also check out the new multi-core CPUs being developed by Freescale, in particular the 64-bit dual core, 2.2 GHz P5020 and the 8-core, 1.5GHz P4080."
http://www.a-eon.com/news.html (December 22nd 2010)

"Ben Hermans encourages people to look at Freescale P4 P5 architectures for future of AmigaOne range."
http://www.amigakit.com/catalog/amiwest.php

"Ben Hermans also referred to the P4 and P5 processors from Freescale for future AmigaOne computer."
http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/amiwest2010_en.php

So if A-Eon are pleased with Varisys's performance regarding development of the Nemo board I don't see a reason why they wouldn't want to expand their business relation to an X1000's successor (if there really will be any, that is), based on QorIQ.

Interesting! At least we have an idea where they're headed after the PA6T.

"Also check out the new multi-core CPUs being developed by Freescale, in particular the 64-bit dual core, 2.2 GHz P5020 and the 8-core, 1.5GHz P4080"

Maybe they ought to focus on getting the first product out the door before planning on its successor.

[ Edited by Jim on 2011/3/4 19:25 ]

> Maybe they ought to focus on getting the first product out the door
> before planning on its successor.

I guess that was just an answer to all the many people who counter A-Eon's plans by claiming that there's no suitable Power Architecture CPU after (and probably improving over) the PA6T, rendering an ISA change to x86 or ARM inevitable anyway, so that it makes no sense to go for the PA6T in the first place. I doubt there's been any real planning going on beyond X1000 yet.

Addendum:

> In real life performance (i.e. not Dhrystone) I expect the PA6T to
> have significant higher performance/wattage figure than the PPC970
> by providing only slightly less performance/clock.

On amigaworld.net someone linked an interesting PDF presentation containing comparisons between PA6T, 2xPPC970FX and MPC8641D:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5844&start=20#78629

Addendum:

>> I found an interesting PDF presentation file dating August 2010 over there.
>> The most interesting pages are #16, which shows a product roadmap mentioning
>> "Future Viper SoCs", and #18, which reads "Viper Technology -> Breakthrough
>> Performance at Disruptive Cost Basis". To my surprise, the roadmap on page 16
>> still contains the Titan core based "Gemini" (APM83290), which had been
>> semi-officially declared dead one month before. Strange.

> Still all the same in this most recent presentation (February 2011).

New presentation (March 2011), but content same old, same old.

Update:

Quote:

Sam460ex at 1.15 GHz (production model):

Code:
Source: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32815&forum=14#605621

So that means a drop with the production model in all categories, specifically:

L1 cache read: -4.5%
L1 cache write: -5.7%
L2 cache read: -2.5 %
L2 cache write: -11.3%
RAM read: -8.8%
RAM write: -11.5% ('Tricky': -31%)
Video bus read: -8.3%
Video bus write: -40%

Quote:

Further RAGEMEM benchmark results of production model:

Code:
Source: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32815&forum=14#606210

Addendum:

> CPU: 1150 MHz, bus: 230 MHz, multiplier: 5 (production model)

Seems my assumption on memory bus clock and multiplier was correct:

http://i1103.hizliresim.com/2011/3/26/17.jpg
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5860#78895

(460 "MHz" in dual data rate mode amounts to 230 "real" MHz).


Edit: Added another link.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2011/3/26 13:58 ]

Update:

>> CPU: 1150 MHz, bus: 230 MHz, multiplier: 5 (production model)

> Seems my assumption on memory bus clock and multiplier was correct

Apparently, there're different production model configs out in the wild. Another one reported:

CPU: 1150 MHz, bus: 287.5 MHz, multiplier: 4

http://amigans.net/?function=viewcomments&threadid=210&commentid=3169#3169

This faster config could explain the improvement in RAGEMEM benchmark results observed before.


Edit: Another config reported, almost identical to the first one:

CPU: 1155 MHz, bus: 231 MHz, multiplier: 5

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37057&forum=33&start=40#693558
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37054&forum=45#693162

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 29.12.2012 - 15:12 ]

> Varisys could probably design a killer P5010 board for our market.

Or it could be done by someone else:

"I will be supporting new amiga hardware that will be based on freecale QorIQ 4 and 8 core processor cores and a media box that uses the 55020 64 bit dual core 2 ghz chips. [...] I will be looking for amiga enthusiasts and devs to support my hardware. [...] I have a major commitment from local business and Arrow Electronics and Freescale to support my efforts. I have the design finished and I am waiting for a design engineer to check my diagrams and make up a parts list. I should have prototypes in about 60 days and have some test quantities available by early summer. I plan to go into production by December 2011 in large quantities and already have a contract manufacturer ready to produce all my machines."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33444&forum=34#607096

"I have big plans for AROS on PPC [...] and OorIQ processor family. [...] I would run it on 3041 four core 4080 8 core and 5020 64 bit 2 core processors [...]. The PPC will be high end notebooks and the 64 bit will be a combo computer satellite media and streaming center. I have designs completed have located a manufacturer and am currently having an engineering firm check designs and come up with a parts list. THese are modern computers with very fast processors and the best peripherals a 3 year warranty and training discs included at very competitive prices. I have been working on this for 10 years upgrading it year by year while I raised my children. Now I am ready to go into production."
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=54473#forumpost54473

"I have original designs for several models of the new QorIQ 3041, 4 core 4080 8 core and 5020 54 bit 2 core processors in both notebooks and all in one satellite tv DVR/computer combo with 2 hard drives and video audio streaming and 7.1 surround sound and a 24 and 27 inch LCD screen. [...] I am looking to put a team of serious devs together to accomplish these goals. I would like to be in production for December 2011."
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=54474#forumpost54474

"I would like to [...] develop new ppc based computers based on the new qoriq based freescale power pc processors [...] as well as a multimedia box based on 5020 64 bit processor. [...] I would like to offer workstations to developers when available. I have finished the design and am going to have a designer familiar with these processors finalize my design and get a parts list so I can produce prototypes and then go into full production by december of 2011."
http://vanilla.slitaz.org/index.php?p=/discussion/2722/

More recent info:
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=54470#forumpost54470

Background info:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18183&forum=33&start=140#275922
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=238893
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=239155
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=239163
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=239679
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=239681
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18841&forum=33&start=120#289815
http://www.na-bc.com/tools/directory.dwp?myfunction=brochure&listing_id=496
http://www.serviceslisted.com/profile/mystical-rose-technologies
http://www.40billion.com/view_resource.asp?resid=972561517
http://www.40billion.com/view_resource.asp?resid=1054620619

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 06.10.2011 - 16:55 ]

Update:

> PPC44x chips are not even listed any more on their regular website.

They reappeared in their own proper section: http://www.apm.com/products/legacy/

Update:

Quote:

APM86391 and APM86392 announced ("Diamondback"):

http://investor.apm.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=78121&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1544576
https://myapmold.apm.com/MyAMCC/jsp/public/productDetail/product_detail.jsp?productID=APM86391
https://myapmold.apm.com/MyAMCC/jsp/public/productDetail/product_detail.jsp?productID=APM86392
https://myapmold.apm.com/MyAMCC/retrieveDocument/SNP/APM86391_PB_20110208.pdf
https://myapmold.apm.com/MyAMCC/retrieveDocument/SNP/APM86392_PB_20110208.pdf

It seems that Gopi and Gargus already included those two when talking about their 40nm processors two months ago.


Edit: added some more links
Edit2: changed links from 'myapm' to 'myapmold'

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 16.08.2013 - 14:42 ]

Thanks, not quite what we were hoping for, but that fills the gaps.
Up to 1.0 Ghz, three PCIe controllers with a single lane each and one SATA connection.

I don't understand their naming scheme. The APM86290 seems more powerful
Normally, you'd expect these to have lower numeric designations.

> not quite what we were hoping for, but that fills the gaps.

Diamondback's low specs compared to Mamba were to be expected as that's exactly what the roadmap both you and me recently discussed shows. According to that roadmap the next PacketPro chip(s) after Diamondback should be faster than Mamba.

> I don't understand their naming scheme.

Me neither. Just take it as given and don't even dare to conclude specs or performance from the numbers in the name ;-)

> When Applied Micro actually lets someone see some of this mythical silicon,
> then I'll start to place more faith in their press releases.

Footage of a Gemini/APM83290 based board (presumably the Everglades evaluation board):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brJ8SDvhZYg

Wow, its like an M&M commercial. "They do exist!"

That a very cool reference.

Jerry Flake does say "This is the Gemini chip" so there is no confusion as to what he is demoing.

"Sales engineer"? He definitely favors the later part of his title.

I wish the display was a little more active so we could get an idea of how this board functioned.