Maybe just call them GPUs or GPU Cards

No, video/graphics cards are basically the same thing. And if Andreas seemed relentless about this "misunderstanding" its because it was based on a misstatement (or at least a poorly worded statement) that Velcro wouldn't acknowledge.

Then again, this thread has gotten really stretched out over a single beleaguered point.

> I guess you honestly thought I meant that too.

Yes. That's why you wrote it, isn't it?

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 06:59 ]

Can we let this inane nonsense go now?

Thanks

Probably not, but you could lock the thread. That would be the first time I've seen that occur on these forums.

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 06:56 ]

> I will use the term 5121e to refer to the board

Seems like you're trying to invent your own fantasy terminology then. That way proper communication is moribund. What term will you use to refer to the chip? And how will you express yourself when talking about the chip and the board in one sentence or paragraph?

> I don't necessarily type out the full nomenclature

The difference between a chip and a board has little to do with nomenclature. It's a fundamental *technical* difference.

> As far as I'm aware, you're the only one who
> seems to struggle with comprehending this.

"Seems" is the keyword here. While I can't speak for others I know that not objecting to something doesn't equal understanding it.

> you could lock the thread. That would be the first time I've seen that occur
> on these forums.

When Genesi and some MorphOS Team members had a public go at each other in a thread some years ago (December 2004 IIRC) server problems suddenly appeared that resulted in deletion of a bunch of threads with said thread among them. Probably just bad timing ;-)

> they don't even say "adding"

Huh? How should there possibly be a "dedicated graphics chip" if not by adding it?

> or "5121e" in there.

That's why I asked you several times already: And now you say that inbetween, i.e. in the 3rd paragraph, you didn't mean to include the MPC5121e when mentioning "slow, low-wattage processor"? Yes or no?
As far as I'm aware you haven't answered that question yet.

@ Velcro
No, I've owned multiple TV tuner cards, but I've never thought of them as video cards. And, since I've been building computers since before we had dedicated video cards (and you had to use terminals) I don't know anyone else that would make that mistake.
You might as well argue that a video input card is as a video card, but its not.
And, while I threw out that one statement with a sense of amusement over how drawn out this has been, you could have concluded this childish back and forth bickering long ago.
Your statement was a clearly wrong as Andreas pointed out. If it was a misstatement and you meant something else, why not just say so?

Exceptionally hard headed attitudes have keep us focused on a minor point about hardware most of us gave up on a while ago.

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/7/29 2:17 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:57 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:52 ]

> A board where the chip is already there perhaps.

And how did it go into the board design if not by adding it?

> any slow wattage processor is included and any specialized graphics hardware

...which you called "chip".

> Yes, of course this includes the 5121e

Fine. That's what I assumed.

> it doesn't equal the advocacy of the absurd result of double PowerVRs, which
> is what you were saying.

If you have a PowerVR core inside the MPC5121e on a board and have a "dedicated graphics chip" in the form of a PowerVR on that same board then this makes two PowerVR cores on that board in total. Simple maths.

> I still can't get data out of Applied Micro on the APM 83290 SoC

Over there on the Bunny minator claims:

"AMCC cancelled Titan"
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/174889.shtml

Do you think that could be true? I'm not sure if to trust someone who says that the e500 is a G3 though ;-)

No Applied Micro's not about to give up on Titan. Its the only really powerful core they've got (compared to other company's high end offerings).

BTW - I'm not butting into this one again because the entire group of postings is painfully stupid. I would have taken the use of the term 'chip' to mean an additional discrete component too.

Besides if Velcro think you need me to help you, he doesn't know you very well.

I don't have to state who's right and who's wrong and the only thing that's asinine about the whole situation is how often you've had to restate the basic point that the comment was poorly worded and misleading (if he meant something else).

Quote:
See there for so called video cards (plus some others like the Peggy):
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showcat.cgi?CATID=17

Specially the OpalVision and the AVideo24 are good exemples.

[ Edited by Henes on 2010/7/29 15:05 ]

OK, I'm open to the idea of sticking with the term graphics cards rather than just a generic term like video card (at least while dealing with Amigans).
The last thing I want is another drawn out argument over a minor point.
Is graphics card acceptable, or is the fact that that listing mentions "Graphics and Video cards" going to be a sticking point?

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:48 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:47 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 20.04.2011 - 07:45 ]

>> And how did it go into the board design if not by adding it?

> I don't know, you tell me.

Of course, I will: A chip simply *cannot* go onto a board without someone adding it.

> This has nothing to do with anything

That's how you want to make it look now. Seems you already forgot, but you told: "they don't even say "adding". That's clearly what I referred to when asking how a board could have your "dedicated graphics chip" without someone adding it. And because it's not possible to have a chip on a board without someone adding it before it becomes obvious that you stating that your words "don't even say "adding"" is a dummy argument.

> but then that's typical for you.

It's typical for you to forget what you had said yourself.

> The fact that I said chip doesn't mean I suggested putting a redundant
> PowerVR chip on a 5121e

You can't put a chip on an MPC5121e, which is a chip itself. In case you are using your fantasy terminology again and really meant a "board with an MPC5121e": How can you possibly have a "dedicated graphics chip" on a board with an MPC5121e and *not* end up having two graphics cores on that board?

>Your comments haven't raised its IQ any.>

I am, in no way, concerned about your opinion of my intelligence.

>I'm aware that chip is a discrete object. This fake point about "chip" and "hardware" is just red herring #26. The fact that I said chip doesn't mean I suggested putting a redundant PowerVR chip on a 5121e anymore than it means I suggested to put one on a fuel-injection system in a Chevy Volt.>

I had to edit this as I must admit that I'm not sure I understand your point. We weren't discussing engine management systems, we were discussing a board you insist on identifying by its CPU. Further, we were discussing whether or not your posting suggest adding a graphics chip to that board.

>I didn't say I thought he needed help, I said evidently you think that and evidently that's correct because you're still jumping in there like his loyal echo. Jim, you ought to take off your "AnDreaZ R0xx0rs" t-shirt for a few minutes and start thinking for yourself.>

Actually, I'd pledged no to involve myself in this any farther. It had become painfully drawn out on all parts. But as you choose to make this personal, I feel compelled to respond.

With over 30 years of experience in the computer field, I've learned the hard way who to trust and who not to trust. Who to have respect for and who to disregard. Who to take advice and criticism from and who was making pointless, self centered negative comments.

I'll keep the pro Andreas tee shirt and maybe add one for Zylesea and several other on this (and other) Amiga forums. And I'd add one for my former employer, electrical engineer Ed Gressick (deceased former owner of Delmar Co.) who long ago made me realize that while it was important to listen to others, that it was equally important to consider what they have say and then make up your own mind.

I'm pretty selective about who I truly take seriously. So far, your arguments haven't lead me to include you in this group. [

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/7/30 19:43 ]

Quote:

You can't put a chip on an MPC5121e...

I don't know, I must be stupid. That makes sense no matter how often you have to say, so...

What scares me is the point about video cards. I just got beaten up over this to the point where I've acquiesced to calling these graphics cards (as if any nimrod is going to mistake a TV tuner card as a video card). So, I actually agree with him on this point.

"There's a fine line between stupid and clever." -- St. Hubbins