Quote:

What, did you adopt a bunch of penguins?

*runs to the hills*

Quote:

Originally in Workbench 1.x you couldn't just delete files, you had to drag them to the trashcan and then empty the trashcan. There was no 'delete' option at all. That's put people off the trashcan for a long time.

There were attempts to get AmigaOS a trashcan, some freeware, but they suffered from placing *every* temporary file in the trashcan. To get around that you could just add the functionality to Ambient but that means that anything you delete not using Ambient wouldn't be protected.

I like .recycled in SFS. It does what it should and it stays out of the way.

Quote:

Oh, was it so? :) I don't remember using trashcan for its intended use ever... even with floppy based A500/KS1.3 I already did use DOpus for all filemanagement and it did have the direct delete button. I just remember that I used trashcan to have some temp files at early A1200 times, but never emptied it :P

Quote:

No, I do have a 2 year old kid though. That's as bad as a bunch of penguins.

Quote:

2 years already? Damn, time flies.. My 2nd one is already week old ;)

Quote:

Intriguing!

Quote:

We could be long dead by then ;)

Quote:

Don't be so negative, I'll bet if the X5000 was available for purchase now, we would have a release of MorphOS3.10 to support it, along with the few enhancements and/or bug fixes that come with all releases of MorphOS.

So, in a way, Hyperion may be responsible for the delayed release of MorphOS3.10, although if MorphOS3.10 has significant changes for users who don't want an X5000, I'm sure the Dev. Team will release it, no matter if the X5000 is being sold, or not.

I'm interested to see what jacadcaps has been working on instead of the MorphOS Trashcan utility. I'll bet it is something we all can get more use from, and is more important than the questionable value of a trashcan.

Quote:
No.

Quote:

Yeah, the trashcan was pretty useless come KS2.x (or with a file manager), since things didn't automatically go there when deleted. Thomas Richter had a freeware tool called FTrash, which patched the OS to send things to trashcan when deleted by anything in the system. It even changed the icon to show a "bulging" trashcan when you had files in it.

Both the original implementation and FTrash both had the same major problem: files in it weren't actually deleted, and so still took up space. If for instance you used an xpk compressor with FTrash, you ended up with original file and temp file(s). Quickly the HD would fill up with temp files from everything. The original trashcan didn't store temp files but actually dragging anything to it was too much of a pain.

That's why SFS .recycled is better. It keeps everything, but it's not counted towards free space. And it "automatically" deletes stuff when the space is needed elsewhere. So it's not totally like the Windows Recycle Bin, because it doesn't keep stuff until you empty it, but it's more transparent.

(Edit: The Windows Recycle Bin can be set to fill up to a percent of your total HD space. I forgot because I have a 6 TB raid and haven't emptied the thing in years.)

[ Edited by KennyR 03.08.2016 - 16:51 ]

> I'll bet if the X5000 was available for purchase now, we would have
> a release of MorphOS3.10 [...]. So, in a way, Hyperion may be
> responsible for the delayed release of MorphOS3.10

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11650&start=36

Quote:

You once told me why your links in forum messages point to the wrong message, due the preference I have set for reading these forums, but I have forgotten what you wrote, and how I can change my settings, so I can click on the many links you use to make your point of view known. Something about threaded vs linear, or newest post vs oldest post showing up at the top of a thread.

I wish there was a fix for this forum software, so I could keep my current settings, which show the newest forum posts at the top, and what ever setting I am currently using, regarding threaded, or non-threaded reading of the forums, and still allow me to click on links of other forum posts, and not go to some completely unrelated forum thread. Before you pointed out the problem with the forum software, I was very confused by the forum posts you would provide links to, to answer questions, or make your point of view known.

For example; when I click on your link above in this forum thread, it takes me to the thread about the release of MorphOS3.10 in a week, with the post from you saying something about Cherry Darling and who works, or formerly worked for them, which to me, has nothing to do with Hyperion being responsible for any delay in the release of MorphOS3.10.

I'll switch my preferences to show the oldest forum posts first, instead of the newest posts at the top, to see if that fixes the problem.

Edit: Yep, that fixed it! What a pain in the ass though. I much prefer to have the newest forum posts shown at the top of pages.

[ Edited by amigadave 04.08.2016 - 14:16 ]

> not go to some completely unrelated forum thread

This was never the case.

Quote:

You are correct, but often it seemed that way.

Sorry this took so long...

I've been working on the trashcan functionality for a couple of weeks now. What's working is the actual backend that moves files around and does all the bookkeeping. I'm currently working on the filesystem part - the Trashcan volume already shows up in Ambient, but it's a lot more work to have this fully functional - the idea is that all trashed files will be available within the Trashcan: volume (read-only). Once the fs part is done, Ambient will need to have trash support added.

The plan is to have something ready for a betatest before the end of this year.

Quote:

Very cool.
Will test it out when you release it Jacek.

Quote:

Great news, but sad to read that it is so much more work for you than I had at first guessed it would be. I'm now thinking that your time could have been, and would still be, in the near future, better used on other parts of the OS, or on some part of the move to x64 hardware. I am sure the small amount funded for this work to be done (1/2 by me basically just to shut up some other complaining member here), was only a tiny fraction of what your time has been worth to do this work.

[ Edited by amigadave 13.12.2016 - 13:27 ]

Quote:

Hey, thanks for promoting the idea, David.
Its a useful addition to the OS and anything that adds to the utility of PPC MorphOS is cool by me.
The X64 fork will be a great addition, but I wouldn't want to see our current OS slighted in order to further development of the X64 variant.

Quote:



Good luck !

Quote:

I'd be happy to do any beta testing you want done before it is incorporated into the OS for its next release, but if you already have sufficient number of testers, I don't need it before the official release is ready.

Quote:

Reality check please: X64 MorphOS will not be an addition, but a replacement. It's silly to waste any more resources on a dead ISA.
Really. If MorphOS would have some significant resources (manpower, money) I'd be more than happy if MorphOS would also continue PPC, but unfortunately these resources just aren't there.
Priority #1 must be at least to ensure a future. And building a future on a dead and virtually abandoned ISA is - hhhmm let me phrase it this way - not the ultimatively best choice.

Quote:

Zylesea: I appreciate your input, but I'm laying down some cash for an X5000 next year. I intend to keep that around for the rest of my life, so improvements in the OS I'd prefer to use on it will be most gratefully accepted.
And, the development team is still working on improving our current OS. So, regardless of what you think, the PPC version of MorphOS isn't going away any time soon.
Right now Mark's starting to bust his ass working on the video drivers for the cards above the R500 series. I just exchanged a message with him today, and he mentioned playing around with an R600 card. So, while Andreas may have recently been harping on Bigfoot's progress with the Java JIT project, I can assure you Mark's damned busy.
Jacek, just posted what he's doing. And I f'ing really like it.
Further, I'm sure there are other developers with their own current projects.
MOST of them, no doubt PPC oriented.
Our user base is already bleeding as some users move to OS4, after all, that OS' development is finally progressing a little faster. OpenGL ES, Radeon HD video card drivers, software development promoted by A-eon...
And what are some of us suggesting?
That we sit still, throw all our effort into an X64 fork that will no doubt take years to realize, and just let the current OS stagnate?

THAT is just stupid!
Does Microsoft stop updating its current OS while its prepares its successor?

When Geit and whoever else is working on the X64 fork show us some progress, well even then, I'm still not going to be willing to throw away the current OS.
I look forward to the X64 fork, but I'm keeping my PPCs.
And I doubt the development team is willing to just shut down the PPC fork either (and, btw guys, if you are, I have some embedded commercial applications that I wouldn't mind doing with the core of the OS - so how much do you want for it? As if...).
You don't work for decades to produce something just to ash can it.

Reality check?
The reality is that the OS is the property of our developers.
THEY, not US, say where its going and what is going to happen, AND so far I have NOT heard an announcement that the X64 fork meant the death of the original OS.
OBVIOUSLY, when MorphOS NG is ready for release, focus will shift to supporting hardware that has more of a future than our current PPC systems.
BUT, the history of this OS, what the developers have accomplished, f*ck...the personal character and the abilities of each one of these guys?
If NOTHING further became of this OS, what has been produced so far, the persistence of the development team, and their support...I find it humbling.

So, whatever the hell happens, I'll keep my X5000, update it with whatever updates come, and frankly I will be quite satisfied with it.

And THAT is my reality.

BTW - Frank, Mark, Fab, Jacek, Harry, Geit, Andre and the others I haven't had direct contact with...uh...THANKS.

[ Edited by Jim 15.12.2016 - 18:23 ]

> Andreas may have recently been harping on Bigfoot's progress with the Java JIT project

I just linked to the Leopard WebKit author who has been harping on Bigfoot's progress with the JavaScript JIT project ;-)

> I'm sure there are other developers with their own current projects.
> MOST of them, no doubt PPC oriented.

This I doubt. I'm sure most work done on MorphOS is not oriented to any ISA but written in portable, endian-agnostic C code, thus easily compilable for whatever ISA (including x64).

> Geit and whoever else is working on the XS64 fork

Geit is a high-level (application-level) coder so I doubt he is working on the transition to x64. As far as I know the backgrounds of the MorphOS team members, only laire (still active?), bigfoot and piru have the necessary skills to pull off the ISA transition.

> I have some embedded commercial applications that I wouldn't mind doing with
> the core of the OS - so how much do you want for it? As if...

I believe the Quark kernel is supposed to be re-used for MorphOS on x64, at least the portable code parts.

> You don't work for decades to produce something just to ash can it.

The vast majority of the code that comprises MorphOS should be easily recompilable for any ISA, so even if there were no further PPC versions of MorphOS as soon as an x64 version arrives, the MorphOS team wouldn't have to "ash can" the majority of the code written so far.

> The reality is that the OS is the property of our developers.

The reality is that each individual MorphOS component is the property of its individual developer, as could be seen by tokai's unfortunate departure.

>The reality is that each individual MorphOS component is the property of its individual developer, as could be seen by tokai's unfortunate departure.

Yes, that was an ugly situation, wasn't it?
Perhaps they ought to consider asking all current contributors to sign a contract that covers the rights to that code.

>The vast majority of the code that comprises MorphOS should be easily recompilable for any ISA, so even if there were no further PPC versions of MorphOS as soon as an x64 version arrives, the MorphOS team wouldn't have to "ash can" the majority of the code written so far.

Not nearly as simple a process as you assume, or we already would have seen a proof of concept demo.

>only laire (still active?), bigfoot and piru have the necessary skills to pull off the ISA transition.

I think you might have just slighted Frank Mariak with that statement, one of two developers who was there at the start. And Mark is pretty busy with work on the current OS, so who's that leave in your list Harry and one other developer that you don't appear to be sure is actually still working on the OS?

>This I doubt.

I don't. The best developer in the list you mentioned is already committed to several new projects for the current OS.

>I just linked to the Leopard WebKit author who has been harping on Bigfoot's progress with the JavaScript JIT project

Yeah, I know, but I enjoy needling you every once in a while buddy, and you did bring it up...;-(
Besides, I would SO like to jettison all my reliance on that piece of dung.
Java, Flash, and any other buggy, unreliable crap I've been forced to use for the last couple of decades or so.

And, as I pointed out, I'm quite impressed with what's been done so far, so when we do make this move, I'll be retaining my last PPC system (which is likely to be an X5000) as an example of the "high water mark" we reached with this.

You know, there are a few things we are likely to see before this move that will be quite neat.
Bigfoot's committed to upgrading all those Radeon drivers that were introduced after the R500s, and if he can do all that work, I'll bow to him in obeisance.
That means, that unlike the OS4 video drivers, we will have accelerated support that doesn't jump from the 9200 to the Radeon HD card skipping 3D support for a huge number of gpus.
Think about it, we have 3D support for the R300, R400, and R500 cards thanks primarily to Mark and Frank.

And other little goodies that might pop up?
That's anyone's guess, BUT they have dropped surprises on us before, and I'm almost certain that they will drop a few more, unannounced, on us before this is over.

And as to X64, yeah that WILL be cool, won't it?
BUT, if we aren't to see a large part of our current user base slowly fade away, it will pay to keep the current OS under development.

After all, as you've pointed out, a great deal of this is going to carry over into NG, or does that become NGNG?

[ Edited by Jim 14.12.2016 - 20:11 ]

> Perhaps they ought to consider asking all current contributors to sign a contract
> that covers the rights to that code.

The problem of this idea would be to determine the other contracting party. The MorphOS team is not a legal entity, so who would such contract be concluded with? Of course, any team member could simply contribute his code under a custom license that grants the usage of the code within all (or certain) future MorphOS releases. The question is if all current MorphOS team members even want to grant such license. Tokai certainly didn't. And I'm not sure the MorphOS team is in a position to demand this from its members and expel contributors who wouldn't want to comply.

>> The vast majority of the code that comprises MorphOS should be easily
>> recompilable for any ISA, so even if there were no further PPC versions
>> of MorphOS as soon as an x64 version arrives, the MorphOS team wouldn't
>> have to "ash can" the majority of the code written so far.

> Not nearly as simple a process as you assume, or we already would have
> seen a proof of concept demo.

No, we wouldn't. As I said, compiling for x64 is no problem for the majority of the code. Majority of code doesn't equal majority of effort in terms of ISA transition. The hard part is creating the small layer (relatively speaking in terms of code quantity) that the recompilable majority of the OS runs on top of (i.e. kernel and kernel-mode drivers). Or put another way: How to show a proof of concept demo of MorphOS user space code on x64 without x64-compatible OS kernel?

>> only laire (still active?), bigfoot and piru have the necessary skills
>> to pull off the ISA transition.

> I think you might have just slighted Frank Mariak with that statement,
> one of two developers who was there at the start.

Frank's contribution has primarily been graphics (and audio) drivers I think, the code of which should be compilable for another ISA (he may correct me on this if assumed wrongly). The PPC-specific low-level code (Quark kernel etc.) was laire's work.

> Mark is pretty busy with work on the current OS, so who's that leave in
> your list Harry and one other developer that you don't appear to be sure
> is actually still working on the OS?

Yes, unless there are more current team members than publicly known, among them one or more developers especially "hired" for the x64 transition. But how likely is this?

>>> I'm sure there are other developers with their own current projects.
>>> MOST of them, no doubt PPC oriented.

>> This I doubt. I'm sure most work done on MorphOS is not oriented to any
>> ISA but written in portable, endian-agnostic C code, thus easily compilable
>> for whatever ISA (including x64).

> I don't. The best developer in the list you mentioned is already committed
> to several new projects for the current OS.

I replied to (and doubt) your claim that most work that is currently being done for MorphOS is PPC-oriented. I assume that a good share of bigfoot's current MorphOS projects is not PPC-oriented, or oriented to any specific ISA at all. Or do you really believe that most MorphOS components are written in PPC ASM?

> I would SO like to jettison all my reliance on that piece of dung.

What "piece of dung"? (Sorry, I seem to have lost track.)