2010 - your expectations
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    ddewbofh
    Posts: 25 from 2009/12/4
    From: Sweden
    x86 is a powerful and versatile platform but also very diverse. It's not like you just have to support the actual processor but also all the bits that goes around it, everything from disk controllers to soundchips and what have you. I'd much rather see the team's effort being put into new exciting stuff for MorphOS and improving current drivers.

    My expectations/hopes for 2010 is for OWB to continue improving. Webkit is a great rendering engine but right now OWB is being held back by what appears to be threading issues and slow rendering. From what I've seen so far the devs are doing a great job on it so it's looking good. :-)
  • »31.12.09 - 15:32
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @ddewbofh

    Er, threading issues? And if you experience rendering slowness on a mac mini, that's suspicious too. :)
    I understand it could feel slow on an amiga or efika, but on a peg2 or mac mini, it's certainly quite acceptable.

    [ Edited by Fab on 2009/12/31 16:53 ]
  • »31.12.09 - 15:49
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    ddewbofh
    Posts: 25 from 2009/12/4
    From: Sweden
    @fab

    That's the way it appears anyway, tabs freezing during activity in others. No UI interaction when rendering certain sites etc. I call that a threading issue even if the browser would be single-threaded as those problems can be alleviated by threading and/or process isolation.
  • »31.12.09 - 15:57
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1824 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    I'll be happy using my Mac mini 1.5GHz for the next year! :) Anything else is bonus :) I've tired to fantasize and wait things which are only speculations. I think it's better to enjoy what we actually have... especially when we really have cool things like we do now :) 2009 has been fantastic year.. we've got lots of cool software as mentioned and support for new hw too. I guess many haven't even had time to fully enjoy that yet :P Thanks for everyone who contributed, I'll be happy for long even if there wouldn't be as much news in next years.

    OK, maybe I'll wish for more users too ;) Maybe those lurking people could step in now when things have polished nicely :)
  • »31.12.09 - 16:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    I agree with jpv. What we have right now thanks to polished MorphOS releases and Mac Mini port is simply wonderful in the MorphOS front. Fab is a key developer with his MPlayer and OWB ports and these two programs make using my Mac Mini a delightful experience.

    I guess that next year will bring MorphOS to other PPC Macs and Bigfoot may release his faster 3D drivers. Efika's USB will be more stable for mass storage transfers and OWB will improve more and more thanks to Fab's ideas. Perhaps we'll see a shared Cairo library with hardware acceleration and/or Radeon video acceleration for cgxvideo.library
  • »31.12.09 - 16:17
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @ddewbofh

    I guess i should have enabled the network thread option by default then.
    But do yourself a favor and go to owb settings and enable "network thread". :)

    That was one of the major modifications/rework I added to original WebKit/OWB, which avoids freezing the UI during stalled connection phases (in particular during DNS lookups).
  • »31.12.09 - 16:25
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    MorphOS for PowerBooks for me. Meaby a little bit better licence policy for a new users. That will do me :)

    Happy new year everyone - happy new year MorphOS Team - thanks for all your hard work done this year!
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »31.12.09 - 16:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    I'd like to see:

    1) Power management extended for Mac-mini ("auto shutdown after xx minutes inactivity" timer).

    2) Hardware mixer for the Mac-mini audio chip (even with software volume control, onboard sound is a bit sucky under MorphOS compared to MacOS - top end seems to max out all the time, almost "rattle-y").

    3) Broader userbase, more Morphzone users (already happening imho) discussing user-related issues and giving feedback and suggestions to developers.

    4) More positive publicity and recognition for MorphOS outside of the Amiga-centric community.

    5) General development of the default installation to include things like default links to software download site, help site & discussion site (MorphOS files, Morphzone Library and Morphzone respectively) either on the desktop, or as "default links" in built-in browser(s).

    6) Better Samba/SMBFS/CIFS implementation, with GUI integrated into MorphOS shiny new preferences system.

    7) PS3mediaserver implementation (rewritten in C? - awww, pwease!)

    8) Introductory audio/video explanation of MUI, Ambient, Preferences etc (might try to do this myself, once I understand it more myself ;-) ) as an introduction to the OS user-interface for "newer" users.

    9) Development of default user-files area to give application developers somewhere default to save user files aside from PROGDIR:

    10) Health, wealth, peace & happiness to everyone of course... :-)

    EDIT: Have a good New Year all, I'm off to get wazzed. :pint:

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2009/12/31 17:36 ]
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »31.12.09 - 16:25
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    ddewbofh
    Posts: 25 from 2009/12/4
    From: Sweden
    @Fab

    Yeah, I've done that already. Also maxed out the number of threads which has made pages load faster. But my original "gripe" is still there. :)
  • »31.12.09 - 17:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 387 from 2004/2/10
    1. Finish the network support for MOS.
    2. Fix the filesize limitations of the OS.
    3. Finish media center.

    That's all I'm wishing for...

    Happy New Year!

    Matt
  • »31.12.09 - 17:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Dreamcast270mhz
    Posts: 152 from 2009/12/9
    From: Virginia,USA
    If we see a platform change this year, I want it to be G5 or ARM, X86 must not happen any time, anywhere to MOS, as I said, I WILL leave and buy over priced SAMs rather than use X86 again. A few reasons why:
    Low quality instruction exceution per clock
    X86 ASM is a MESS
    It stands as a monopoly rivaling standard oil in the thirties
    Has been shown to be the worst type of processor for ASM, it is the main reason for the use of platform independent language usage
    My Macs:
    Powerbook G4 ALU 1.5GHZ 15" 1.5GB OSX.5.8
    Powermac G4 MDD 1.5GHZ OSX.5.8 MOS2.7

    Want a part for a Mac? Let me know, I'll see what I can do.

    Amithlon is amazing, questions and help I can provide.
  • »31.12.09 - 18:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Debaser
    Posts: 161 from 2005/7/12
    From: Syracuse, NY, USA
    I am just going to kick back and enjoy my Morph OS enabled mac mini next year. My big expectation is that we continue to see an increase in the user base, esp with powerbook and other G4 macs hardware support in 2010. 2009 was great! I am very confident 2010 will be even better.
  • »31.12.09 - 19:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Nice thread zylesea

    1. I expect Morphos running on my powerbook g4 by March 2010 :)

    2. I expect all the core Morphos team to stop driving their new bmws they got from sales of Morphos and ride bicycles to save the ozone layer... :P

    3. I expect all the os4 fanboys to finally bow to us and Hyperion to admit they lost the fight lulz

    4. I expect all of you to have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR!

    [ Edited by magnetic on 2009/12/31 19:44 ]
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »31.12.09 - 23:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I don't know what the activity levels for MorphOS related sites were like prior to MorphOS2.0 was released, but since I started looking around here just before 2.0 was released, things appear to have picked up ten fold.

    1. I hope this trend continues for all of this year.

    2. I hope that the MorphOS Dev. Team completes ports of MorphOS for the G4 PowerMac, G4 eMac, G4 PowerBook and G4 iBook models before the end of the first quarter of 2010.

    3. I hope that once more Mac models are supported by MorphOS, most of the AmigaOS4.x camp will see that their OS of choice is virtually the same as MorphOS, except MorphOS is free to try, runs on faster and much cheaper hardware, and they decide to take the time to find out for themselves all the advantages MorphOS has to offer them.

    4. Someone here once suggested that an AmigaOS4.x theme for MorphOS should be put together so it could be shown to current AmigaOS4.x users during demo's of MorphOS to show them that they do not have to give up anything, should they decide to make the switch to MorphOS from AmigaOS4.x. If this theme has not already been created, I hope that someone with a Pegasos2 running both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS2.4, will create such a theme for MorphOS2.x.

    5. I hope that I can do some serious learning of programming languages and techniques over the next 6 months, so that I might contribute some valuable code to several projects before the end of this coming year.

    6. By the end of 2010 I hope that all ports of MorphOS to G4 Mac models is completed and the MorphOS Dev. Team can devote more time toward thinking about the next step and decide if that step will be the discontinued G5 and ports to the G5 PowerMac and other G5 Linux computer designs, Cell processor designs (haven't heard anything in this direction for a long time), to the 8610 and/or 8640 CPU design mobo's, or the larger step to a different architecture, like the ARM, or x86.

    52 minutes left in this year from the time zone I sit in. I hope it has been an okay year for all of you, but more than that, I hope next year will be a better year for all of us.

    Best regards,

    [ Edited by amigadave on 2009/12/31 22:58 ]

    [ Edited by amigadave on 2009/12/31 23:00 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »01.01.10 - 05:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    DiskDoctor
    Posts: 306 from 2009/4/17
    From: Rzeszow, place...
    I only expect subsequent PPC Macs releases.

    As it could be seen, many Amiga fans, also those who enjoy classic emulation only, possess some stock of PPC Macs. By enabling their support they automatically become new MorphOS users. And I'm not mentioning cheap HW alternative, that's also a huge factor. MorphOS notebook would also rule :-)

    I also wish that other stuff is finished on my Mac mini example - wireless, maybe bluetooth or analog modem.
    Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
    Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
    Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
    Planned soon: an OS4 system
    Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
  • »01.01.10 - 11:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I think The PPC path is death [...] Well, aside from PS3 and XBOX360 consoles.

    Don't forget the Wii :-)
  • »02.01.10 - 01:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Cell processor designs (haven't heard anything in this direction for a long time)

    "In November 2009, an IBM representative said that it has discontinued the development of a Cell processor with 32 SPUs but they have not halted development of other future products in the Cell family."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)#History
  • »02.01.10 - 01:53
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4956 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I've been discussing Cell processors with the forums moderator for the Natami Project. Gunnar is a fascinating fellow with a background in the development of Cell based supercomputers. Personally I'd still love to see a PC based on the Cell.

    So, first for the new year, I hope I'll see a version of MorphOS that runs on the G4 Mac I have with the Radeon 9000 Pro video card I've put in it (maybe I can even afford a 1.8GHz upgrade processor - making it one fast platform for MOS).

    Second I hope the team behind the Natami manages to complete the preliminary hardware designs and gets an initial board out to developers (or that Jens at Individual Computing completes the work he's been so quietly pursuing).

    Third, I hope that Applied Micro's Titan cored PPCs will continue to be developed (as Freescale's 8610 seems to be the only other modern PPC that is likely to remain available). Further, it would be nice if they were a little more forthcoming with the technical info on those processors.

    Fourth, that IBM's announcement (mentioned above) is only a precursor to the introduction of even more powerful Cell based processors (which, in my opinion, would be ideal for a MorphOS/AmigaOs system).

    Fifth, and I know this is unlikely, but I love to see Quark supporting more than just basic ABOX functionality. If not QBOX, then why not an SMT capable ABOX? And, yes, I know how difficult that would be.

    Sixth, and final wish, that all the divergent directions that Amiga related hardware and OS developments finally garner enough recognition that we draw new people into our market (as a larger user base can only help assure our future viability).

    Oh, and I wish Happy New Year to everyone reading these postings.

    Take care
    Jim
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.01.10 - 02:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Freescale's 8610 seems to be the only other modern PPC that is likely to remain available

    The 8640 is going to be discontinued? Then, there's QorIQ going strong (the e500mc variants with a "real" FPU) and IBM will have their PPC476 core to be implemented by LSI.
  • »02.01.10 - 13:12
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4956 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    As far as I know, Freescale has no immediate plans to discontinue the 8640, but they did state that the 8610 was going to remain available for several years (making it a better bet for long term production).
    Personally, I like the 8640 (as you know Andreas). But its a relatively high cost processor and the only Southbridge chips I could find that would work with it are produced by AMD.
    Since you pointed out to me that there have already been posts (on MorphZone) on the recent introduction of the first Titan based Soc, I'm sure you're aware of the advantages of that processor (PCIe 2.0, etc.).

    The main problem I see with QorlQ (or Titan or, for that matter, the 8640D) is that they're multicore processor (and, as you've repeatedly pointed out, MorphOS doesn't support SMT). While there are a few single core variants they're still limited in speed (making the multicore variants more attractive - if we could take advantage of them).

    Anyway, after spending several months studying the idea of producing a new PPC motherboard, I've just decided to buy an Apple G4. Producing a new board would be quite expensive and except for the ability to use new expansion options (via PCIe), there isn't much of advantage over buying a used Apple (after all, the max clock speed for an 8641 is slower than the max speed I can upgrade a G4 Mac to).

    I don't see the point in mortgaging my house to produce something that might not even get supported by MorphOS or AmigaOS.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.01.10 - 23:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > they did state that the 8610 was going to remain available for several years
    > (making it a better bet for long term production).

    My impression was that they were stating this about the 8610 because the PowerDeveloper project is about the 8610. I didn't read it as if the 8610 is supposed to be any longer in production than the 8640 will be.

    > Since you pointed out to me that there have already been posts (on MorphZone) on the
    > recent introduction of the first Titan based Soc, I'm sure you're aware of the advantages
    > of that processor (PCIe 2.0, etc.).

    Yes, of course I am. Btw, PCIe 2.0 is also featured in QorIQ P4 series (e500mc based, i.e. the one with "real" FPU).

    > The main problem I see with QorlQ (or Titan or, for that matter, the 8640D) is that
    > they're multicore processor (and, as you've repeatedly pointed out, MorphOS doesn't
    > support SMT).

    MorphOS can be programmed to ignore every core except one. That's how MorphOS will run on (one CPU of) dual-CPU G4 PowerMacs. Thus, I wouldn't regard it as real problem, just as a little wastage maybe ;-) As it looks now, e500mc based QorIQ will have four cores at least, which would result in a waste of three cores. 8640(D) is available as single core variant, which would result in no waste at all. Titan based APM 83290 will be available dual-cored, resulting in one wasted core.

    > While there are a few single core variants they're still limited in speed

    Both 8640 and 8640D max out at 1.25 GHz. Single core QorIQ (of P1 and P2 series, e500v2 based) - while being slower (1.2 GHz) than P4 series (1.5 GHz) - are not suitable for MorphOS anyway.

    > making the multicore variants more attractive - if we could take advantage of them

    We can, but unfortunately only one single core of them.
  • »03.01.10 - 00:35
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4956 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Thanks Andreas,
    If there is anyone on this site who would have a better command of the facts, I haven't run into them.
    But,it still seems like the easiest way to get a computer (for MorphOS) is just to buy a Mac. I've seen 1.25GHz Emacs (which have built-in Radeon 9200 graphics) for as little as $50. These and other G4 macs should be supported in the next release.

    I do wish I had more reason the continue on with the 8540D project, but I don't know how much longer the SB600 is going to be available (that's the Southbridge I based the initial work on). The SB700, 710, & 750 could also be used (but I haven't bothered to get the technical info on them yet - AMD has granted me enough access to their technical resources that I could consider them).

    Then there's some additional problems I've had with necessary "glue" circuitry. Freescale's evaluation board uses a FPGA. Short of recreating that, I could investigate a different approach, but its a added complication I must admit to being intimidated by.
    And, of course there's the added complication of working with BGA Packages. I do know one company that I've worked with in the past that has the necessary equipment to bake the SMTs (but today's designs are so complicated that they make the 68K based board I've worked with in the past look like a viable hand soldering project).
    And, of course, what happens if (and this seems inevitable) I make an error in the initial design? It could lead to some very time consuming troubleshooting.

    Right now, I'm looking at the idea of placing the processor on an X16 PCIe card and installing it in an X86 motherboard. It would eliminate the need for a Southbridge and would lead to a less complicated circuit design.

    Whatever happens with that, at least I should be able to run Morph on a Mac soon (while trying to make some use of the 8640Ds I've got on hand).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.01.10 - 02:46
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    xyphoid
    Posts: 870 from 2008/7/11
    From: Delaware, USA
    I just want a couple programs,
    1) the office suite being worked on (Open Office like)
    2) Simple dvd authoring program with gui- this is a must
    3) printing!

    [ Edited by xyphoid on 2010/1/4 22:09 ]
  • »04.01.10 - 00:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > IBM will have their PPC476 core to be implemented by LSI.

    2 weeks ago, LSI announced the addition of the PPC476 to its portfolio of custom silicon IP:

    http://www.lsi.com/news/product_news/2010/2010_01_20.html
    http://www.lsi.com/storage_home/products_home/custom_silicon_solutions/ip/processors/ppc476fp/
    http://www.lsi.com/DistributionSystem/AssetDocument/PPC476FP-PB-v7.pdf
  • »03.02.10 - 15:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 745 from 2007/4/22
    I'd really like to see the Powerbook version out this year...
  • »03.02.10 - 20:00
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