> what does amigaos 4.1 cost?? not below 120euro?

http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=software&pid=1

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I also think the price is too high. I have a ppc mac mini sitting here, but I can't justify that much money for something I may only use occasionally (and it wouldnt be my main machine).

I also think there should be an official developer program to encourage application development. Perhaps a free 1 year license or similar for devs. I have a 1.4 morphos machine that I used for testing Hivelytracker which I already ported to morphos, but I did the development from linux. Would be nice to have a fast morphos system I could actually dev on, but for that price, I'll have to pass.

I know of other people who have also said they would have probably purchased it, had it been cheaper. oh well.

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So whats your point? Its still way cheaper and you get a CD and a box. For the price of MOS they should send you a gold coin and a slice of damn German Chocolate cake!

i bought 2.3 for my Pegasos 2 and although i have a Mac Mini and I did try the demo, I can't justify the cost for a single user with 2 machines. I actually wish i didn't buy the Pegasos 2 version at the time and rather had a Mac Mini version instead, but sadly as it's stuck on that specific Pegasos 2 board, I might as well make use of it. If I had the Mac Mini version, I could have continued to use 1.4.5 on the Pegasos 2. For a single person with multiple machines the price is high compared to all other alternatives. I guess I choose to stick my Mac Mini back in it's box and in the cupboard, but i'd rather that than pay a 150Euro hardware transfer tax on MorphOs to use my Mac Mini instead of the Pegasos 2.

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What the MOSTeam should do and could do, or will do ......... Stop and think about how many hours have gone into MOS2.x and how many people have worked on it, then divide that number into the total of approx. 650 to 700 licenses and you will see that they are working for practically nothing.

Let's not get riled up or emotional about this. It is the right of the team to set the price at what ever they choose and then we all get to decide if we are willing to pay that price. We should not turn against the team, but rather try to rationally debate the reasons, or pros and cons of the current price point and let the team decide what, if any, adjustment should be made to their pricing policy. Personally I think the resistance to purchase at the 150 euro price is more psychological than it is financial, for most people. It is not that they can't save the money to buy it, they just think the price is out of touch with where they think it should be, so they won't buy and end up hurting any chance for the OS to continue development.

There are many reasons that I would like to see the license fee reduced to 99 euros (AmigaOS4.1 being sold at 105 euros is one of those reasons), but I am not going to withdraw my support of the MOSTeam, just because I disagree with their current price. You must admit that the price of MOS2.4 license, plus the cost of a used G4 MacMini is still an order of magnitude better than buying the slightly cheaper AmigaOS4.1 and the outrageously priced SAM440, plus a case, plus a graphics card, plus .....

And what do you have after spending 3 to 4 times as much money for the SAM440 system? You have a system that is new and an OS that comes in a nice box with a CD, but it runs probably 1/3 to 1/4 as fast as the MacMini w/MOS2.4. Also, try to run MacOSX Tiger or Leopard on your SAM440 and let me know how it turns out.

So yes, I would like to see a license fee reduction, but let us please keep this topic in perspective. The MacMini plus the full MOS2.4 license fee is still the best deal of any Amiga(-Like) system you can get.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/10/27 19:53 ]

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I can understand your money being too tight right now and you buying the license a little later, but I still think you should sell the Peg2, and keep monitors in each house, then just transport the MacMini with you back and forth between the two houses. It is just as easy as a laptop to take with you if you leave a keyboard, mouse and monitor in each house and just take the Mini with you where ever you go. Selling the Peg2 gets you enough money for the MacMini license fee, plus puts money in your pocket to pay other bills or buy more Amiga gear, or software! So, I still think that is the best solution, specially if you can sell your Peg2 to someone who is not already a MOS user, as that will grow our user base by One.

Edit: I completely understand anyone who does not want to sell any of their computers (all you have to do is look in my house where there are more than 15 computers, maybe even more than 20, to see that it is hard for me to sell any of my computers), but I was just suggesting a solution to a problem that has benefits in many different ways. I have been going back and forth about my decision to sell or keep my Efika with licensed MOS2.4 installed, now that I have MOS2.4 installed and registered on my MacMini.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/10/28 11:00 ]

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My point?!? Oh, simply tell that 4.1 with taxes touches 120 euros, nothing more. Absolutely no critics or whatelse. If you read my opinion some posts above, you will find this concept: if I want to buy, I should buy only paying. And I know the amount...
I don't want to discuss if price is right or not. I mean, everyone knows it's a enough heavy price... Does everyone knows how heavy was/is the necessary work to realize MorphOS as the lightning os (!!) that it is?
Is a Horrible-Flag or Crunched-Fruit company behind the Team, providing wages and all the rest, due to made their work much more comfortable, without worries?
Amigadave pointed some really good facts. I'm totally agree with him.. except for selling Pegasos ...I'll never sell my beloved Peggy
And I'm agree with the price reduction of MorphOS licence could be a real good "point of return" of many users and a "point of acquisition" of many others. I bought the 111,11 license when 2.0 came out, I had MorphOS installed with time limitation and enjoying this gem convinced me to buy. Even though 150 euros had been the price to pay. I've never had regrets.
But let's no discuss about prices or whatelse.
Would and could we find a solution?!?
Would and could we do a brainstorming to find how to better support the MorphOS Team, due to make them able to do a better work without problems?
Are we able to guarantee their work on MorphOS so that this could become not only a hobbyst OS?
Want and can are really divergent verbs and they ask constant application., not always possible.
The alternative already exists.

[ Edited by Jambalah on 2009/10/28 11:00 ]

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Yes. Completely fair. And also something new customers don't care a damn about.

If keeping this price is mandatory, then better market MorphOS as a luxury item (which it IS).

My main concern with MorphOS license is that it is chained to your current motherboard and doesn't use an usb dongle. IMHO an usb dongle would be more useful in order to upgrade your current hardware or if you don't need to have various MorphOS machines turned at the same time. On the other hand I understand that chaining the key to the hardware is a way to calculate if the hardware deserves being supported. I respect their decission about the price but I would prefer an USB dongle as it would make upgrading your hardware easier.

Didn't manage to read the whole thread.

To me 150 Eur is OK. But I'm subjective here. My costs:
- Mini PPC: zero euro (got one already)
- Edimax wifi2ethernet dongle: 20 Eur
- License (when my network connection becomes more stable) 150 Eur
======
Total: 170 Eur to get a working Amiga system (one of the two actually, I won't get into discussion here, just worth mentioning that the next achievable item would be OS4 Sam, for weigh more than 500 Euro as far as I know so 3 x as much).

In terms of honesty... I posted my statement already, not sure wheather here. My point is that MOS is an OS, comparable in pricing to Windows7 or OSX. Linux is free but... well linux is linux. So my point is that morphos price sustains an expected price for an OS. Which makes it pretty fair.

Another issue is - how many geeks like people having Minis, unix coders etc. would get MOS to play with (wheather they had amiga or not)... dunno. The price ISN'T VERY attractive for those. I guess some people would get it just for curiousity (150 Eur for a geek is not much for such an appetite ). But those will not be majorityof the potential "buyers" (as defined by "zero price" assumption).

Fortunately really, all Mac people I know (including myself) are used to buying all software they find important. Let us all hope they will find MorphOS as much important as any other software they already got.

@DiskDoctor

It's not fair to exclude your original cost of the Mac Mini from your calculation. Even if you "already had" it, you still paid for it at some point, so you should include that cost.

So, what did you pay for the Mac Mini originally?

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I sincererly disagree. Getting an Amiga system price is the ADDITIONAL price that you must spend, basing on your own supplies. I do not include internet connection price because I already have one anyway (BTW mine is free of charge, bad example maybe). But I DO NOT include my monitor since again, I'm having and using one. If I had Amiga 1200 and wanted AmigaOS4, I would INCLUDE Blizzard/Cyberstorm card price, plus the licence, and exclude the rest likewise.

So it is fair to me because it is a common procedure, e.g. in business, like cost of an income (not sure the exact naming), anyway that's correct to me. If someone doesn't have the Mini, he or she should include it. Same about display etc.

This all above is suggesting a statement which is close to be true, that MorphOS for Mini PPC is and should be MAINLY targetted at the current Mini PPC owners (they save 300$ on HW which is quite a decision factor here, isn't it?).

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Well, the usual price, I got one in December 2005 I guess (there was a huge discount, for a certain reason). Anyway it was that mid-range spec, so no superdrive, no analog modem, 80GB HDD, WiFi stuff, 512MB RAM, 64MB GFX (I guess but ain't sure, gotta check it someday).

And it was roughly 600 Eur back then (I'm using current factor which is 4.2:1, must be different back then so slightly cheaper). Plus keyboard plus mouse but that's peripherials.

Just looking at todays exchange rate the MOS team has had about $300,000 US in sales to date. I would say thats one hell of a nice payout.

From my point of view, the posibility to get morphos registered depends on which country you live, i'm spanish and salaries are not too good, and the price is a little high for Spain, but probably not to much for other EU countries, i had my Efika for months before get MorphOS registered, but MorphOS pushes the Efika to its limits, and works very good, so i registered waiting for a Mac mini.

But one thing is sure, Efika won't give to you a full entertainment as a Mac Mini with MorphOS, i think that the price could be adjusted to the hardware that runs it, since registration is linked with the hardware, it could increase users registered.

It just my opinion anyway...

[ Edited by BalrogSoft on 2009/10/29 23:04 ]

@ Acill

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No offence but I think you need to freshen up your math

Also, please note that MorphOS 2.0 was initially sold at an introductory pricre of 111,11 EUR.

@balrog

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That was proposed some time ago and although it's reasonable I don't think they plan to offer different prices

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Steve Solie visited these forums not long ago and started a few threads trying to track down every dollar (my exageration) the MOSTeam had earned from licensing and make it look like the team was making a lot of money. It was shown that when you divide the money between all the developers working on it and then divide that number by the number of hours worked on MOS over the last 10 years since work began on it, you start to realize that the developers are working for practically nothing and could make more money working at McDonalds.

Licenses registered = approx. 650
License fee = approx. 400 x 111.11 euros + 250 x 150 euros = approx. 81,944 euros, or at the current exchange rate of 1 euro = 1.48373 USD the above estimate would be equal to $121,582.77

I would think that amount of money would be an average, to below average salary for just one developer for only one year, not dozens of developers for almost 10 years. That works out to about $1,100 USD per month to be divided between all of the developers working in their spare time on this project, so even if it was only 11 developers working on it, which I am sure it is many more than that, it would be about $100 USD per month. If you figure they work about 2 to 4 hours a night, for 3 to 4 nights a week, and then they work about 5 hours a day on a weekend and only works half of the weekend days available to them, it would equal at the maximum, $1.56 per hour salary.

Not many people are willing to work for $1.56 per hour during their free time, so I just laugh when anyone brings up claims that the MOSTeam is charging too much money and trying to take advantage of the users.

I am not saying that Acill is doing any of that, but others have tried.

The biggest problem with the price of MOS2.x, is that there are too few users that register and pay the fee. If there were double or quadruple the number of users that were paying the license registration fee, then it would be easier for the MOSTeam to lower the price. It is a catch 22, because many of us (me included) believe that if the price were lowered (my preferred price point is 99 euros), many more users would register and pay the license fee. All this discussion about the price is actually hurting us because by pointing out that many people do not agree with the price, it only encourages some people that are unsure about registering and paying the license fee, to wait, or not pay it at all.

I hope that the majority of the users and the MOSTeam can come to some agreement on the price, so the users can be more supportive to the MOSTeam and start doing some of the things on my thread about what to do next to support the expansion of the user base.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/10/29 16:42 ]

Hmm, I was under the impression that close to 1000 licenses were sold, my mistake. That and you have to take into consideration the support and whatever money was used to develop up to 1.5 through Genese, and I dont want to hear they didnt get any or its still owed. They got help and support. So you cant take that into your figures. I am talking purely 2.0 sales here.

In any case you can all decide to do what you want, I wont pay $255 for an OS thats purely for hobbyists currently. This community is the ones that spread the word on mos, we do the marketing, we show it off, and we keep it alive by those actions. For the team to charge what they do currently I do not see as a fair price. If they started to do all the pushing themselves, pay for demos and shows then I will change my mind. They can make the best OS in the world, but if people dont use it what good is it. Corporate greed has taken over and they no longer care about making something they love but something they can make money off of. More power to them, but at least admit to that, dont sugar coat it with some BS about them deserving something back, they have had tons of support and offers of money in the past and wouldnt take it, now they want a huge chunk of it all at once.

[ Edited by Acill on 2009/10/29 21:55 ]

A really fair price for MorphOS (and all the work that went into it) would be *much* higher than mere 150 EUR per copy.