Have to go with the moaners side on this. I "had" to sell my Peg2 as I just felt 150eur is a bit too much. Its not that I couldn't pay it, more of a princible. 99eur would have sounded much better, now that I could have justied to wife

Of course I could have stick with the 1.x but whats the fun in that

Quote:

Really!?!

I had not heard or read that anywhere. Since they already have a beta running on both the PowerBook and the eMac, it would only make sense that the next version would support those models. Or maybe the next version after that. Did you see, or hear something official that you can post a link to regarding this, or is this a rumor that someone started? Maybe someone from the Dev Team, or one of the beta testers?

I am sure many people will be disappointed to find out that no new Mac models will be supported in the 2.5 release version. Personally I am thrilled with v2.4 on my MacMini, but I was also hoping to put MorphOS on my 1GHz G4 PowerBook that I have not used in over a year (it is not currently working, but I will get it fixed as soon as MOS is announced, or released for it).

Please share where you got your information from and give us all the details that are known. (or rumored too I guess)

Edit: It is kind of scary for the future of this site and MorphOS when so many users start selling their compatible computers because they do not agree with the pricing of MOS, including even moderators on this site.

It would be nice if MOS licenses were discounted for previous owners/purchasers, people that have multiple MOS computers. It would also be nice to have someone from the Dev Team explain their reasoning for the current pricing and address some of the valid complaints, such as people that have multiple computers, or those people that wish to delete their license from one computer and transfer it to another. I know that all of this takes time to administer, which could be better used writing code for the next version of MOS, but I would be willing to bet that there are many users that would be happy to volunteer the time needed to administer such changes at no cost. I know that I would be willing to volunteer several hours each week toward any improvement to the current MOS licensing system. It sure would be better to have more open communication with the Dev Team, or if they would choose a person to disseminate information from and relay information and questions to the Dev Team from the users. I don't think it would cost the Dev Team more that 15 to 30 minutes of their time each week to do a conference call through Skype with this public relations officer person, who would then take his volunteered time to get the information from the team placed on the Amiga & Morph news and forum sites.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/10/25 22:55 ]

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/10/25 23:12 ]

I've blessed two machines with a registered MorphOS 2.x (a Peg2 and a Mac mini), and I must say that it's really worth the price and I like to show the people behind it the appreciation for their work on it. Surely, 150 EUR is a lot of money (for me, too), but as said before, it's a matter of motivation. There are people who are spending much more money on other hobbies, (really much money, if you compare the time consumption morphos <-> other hobby), and are still complaining about MorphOS prices and/or policies, which I simply don't understand. But I must admit, that it would make sense to offer a discount for Efika-users, a OS like MorphOS needs IMHO more than 128 MB RAM, so it has only limited use for Efika-users.

MorphOS is luxury craftmanship software, and sure it shows. So its price should NOT be considered, just like those luxury watches priced over 10000.
Then, you put it aside Windows or MacOS, and of course, those other systems do a hell of a lot more things, at a cheaper price. But they are generalist products, not luxury items.
On the other hand, talking about luxury items in these times of the worldwide crisis looks inappropiate.
MorphOS Team should do volume sales, albeit I fear there's some technical difficulties for that, for example, how to tell the computer you are activating on is a full price or reduced price one. Because second and further licenses should be tagged at 99 quid.
Of course licenses could be resold to someone else, but who cares for that, if those 99 qiud are already in your pocket, instead of zero?
All in all, it's like selling to a reseller, it gets dobe every day. Imagine a five pack MorphOS license, at 400 euro. Why not doing that business, instead of doing no business?

[ Edited by jcmarcos on 2009/10/26 11:19 ]

> Since they already have a beta running on both the PowerBook and the eMac, it
> would only make sense that the next version would support those models.

I guess that v2.5 is scheduled too close for that. But no details are given by the MorphOS team on that by now, only what I said: v2.5 probably won't support other Apple gear beside Mac mini.

> Or maybe the next version after that.

Yes, that's my point. It was said that further Mac models will probably start being supported with v2.6, but not with v2.5.

> Did you see, or hear something official that you can post a link to regarding this

I wish I could but I don't remember anymore where it was said.

> or is this a rumor that someone started?

It was said by an official MorphOS team member on a public board during the latest couple of days. If I recall correctly it's been pega-1 but could also have been jacadcaps or someone else.

> Maybe someone from the Dev Team

Yes, definitely.

> or one of the beta testers?

No.

> Please share where you got your information from and give us all the details that
> are known.

I think at least any MorphOS team member could confirm that it was said what I claim was said.

A beta running on a PowerBook doesn't mean it's usable at the moment. On most PowerBook revisions there's no touchpad and keyboard support, on rev-d and rev-e only keyboard works, and that only after some usb hacking. No WiFi, no battery state control, no power management, no backlight control, etc make it unusable for a consumer IMO. PBook and iBook surely won't make it into 2.5. eMac might be a different matter though, but you'll see for yourself when it's released :)

About the price,
@Zylesea: it's funny how you bring up Polish salaries. Actually, most people unhappy about the price come from countries with much higher salaries than Poland (Germany, France, USA). Why is 150 eur too much for people that had no problem paying some 600 eur for a Pegasos 2 system is something I can't understand. I remember paying a similar amount (150 eur) for ImageFX in the past for example. I remember paying some 1500 eur for my PowerUP Amiga... A MorphOS + Mac Mini is just CHEAP compared to that.

I agree that the price should be lowered to $/euro 99 to increase the userbase now that a relatively common HW platform as the Mac Mini PPC is being supported. BUT I also understand that we can't really make a meaningful comparison with Windows or other, "free" OSs.

One thing that I believe should be made clear is the "broken, licensed HW" policy. It has been stated multiple times, even in this very thread, but I think it should be clarified on the official website (I don't know about the registration utility, since I've not registered MOS 2.4 yet) that in case your HW got broken, providing you are able to demonstrate it you *will* get a free replacement key.

Regards.

[ Edited by Turrican3 on 2009/10/26 12:44 ]

Got a Peg2, an Efika, a MacMini and soon a Peg1.

Wish I could register MorphOS for all those machines.

I simply can not due to the coast.

If the coast was half the price -lets say 75 euros- things will be different.

150 euros is still a high price even for someone owning one machine.

But ok no matter the high price MorphOS is worth every single cent!

And all the updates are free, we should not pay 100 more euros for a .1 update :p

Elena was right about 1.4.5 users. There are still some of them around. Not to mention the PowerUp ones but this was discussed on another topic!

If you compare classic CBM AMIGA hobby to oldtimers then you can compare your MorphOS 2 hobby to Hot Rods. Certainly you can't get that as cheap as a Toyota or something which is produced in high numbers (aka Mac OS X, Windows 7, etc.). And a Hot Rod might be less safe and might have less comfort than a Toyota, too.

If you don't think MorphOS 2 is worth 150 EUR then don't buy it. Simple! Nobody is forcing you. Not everyone can afford a Hot Rod either.


But as said so many times before: if you could afford expensive hardware why can't you afford mere 150 EUR for the software to make use of your expensive hardware? In times where one can download everything for the big operating systems for "free" (aka illegal) from the internet many people seem to lost a proper perspective on the worth of software.

Unlike for some other operating systems the MorphOS 2 price is a one-time price including free updates.

While e.g. Snow Leopard was noticeable cheaper; in the end it might cost you a lot more because you have to pay expensive updates for various applications which just stop to work properly on the new OS version; very likely you will have to spend a lot more money than 150 EUR.

The illegal availability of a certain other OS on various sites also proves that it was the right decision to lock the MorphOS 2 registrations to the hardware. Also most of the MorphOS users have multiple machines; the amount of registration would probably 50% smaller if one registration would work for all machines. It's not like people would pay for something if they don't have to. :)

Just my very personal opinion.

Quote:

Who said that? Not me :)

I am not against the team's marketing policy. I just said MorphOS could be a little cheaper.

I am already collecting the money for a massive registration for all my machines. It is the same way I am collecting the money for the expensive hardware.

But it will be easier to collect 300 euros than 600 :)

And another thing: No matter if is is a classic Amiga, a Peg2 / Efika / Peg1 or whatever. It is all hobby to me. That is not something negative I suppose :)

@ CountRaven

Why do you get a Peg1 when you already have a Peg2 (and en Efika and Mac mini)?
Seems like a collectors behavior. And for that I never understand why ppl have no prob to spend that much in additional hardware (more than they probably can use) but complain when that additional hardware yields to additional software cost. Still I belong to the ppl who hope for a lower registration price - because I believe it will yield more users(wich benefits the whole community). But I don't understand some of the complaining.

@Elena

While I'm not a big fan of the licensing model, this IS the only way on this market really. With a different approach MorphOS would have been pirated in minutes.

Anyway, it really isn't as bad as you make it sound. First of all, we do give people new keys if they old hardware breaks, and when you sell the hw, you can simply include the key in the price. As for PayPal, you can still use a bank transfer, you'd just have to contact us first.

@Zylesea
Actually I am not complaining. I just expressed my personal opinion about the price which is very close to yours by the way. We are here to discuss after all.

I am getting all this hardware cause I want to have every machine that runs MorphOS :)

Quote:

Why then OS4 team decided (by now) not to use a similar policy ? I would
assume that if you make a search on Emule you should find lots of illegal
copies of OS4. Ok, I admit I never made such a search, so I don't know.
But they still didn't.

You told it would be pirated in minutes... well, how much software you find
around with very strong hardware protections which is cracked and pirated
on a daily basis ? Do you really think that nobody could crack MOS protection,
if they cracked stuff like windows or photoshop ? I also could do that, being
a nasty old school hacker, I made more difficult jobs, but I simply don't
want to do it because it would be immoral, imho, much more immoral than
cracking thousands euros software from big $$$ companies. But somebody else
could do it, eventually. But I also agree with all those who wrote here expressing
perplessity about the morality of licensing/protecting a niche or enthusiasts-only
OS like MorphOS. So don't be too sure it can't be pirated at all. Please understand
that this is not meant to be a menace, just reasoning :)
Imho, you should then be annoied also by the miryad people out there who's using
unregistered MorphOS2 and simply restart the machine when the time limit
or such occurs.

Quote:

Ok thank for the hint. I don't say I will never buy it, I'm just rather hesitating
at the moment. The price of 150 euro is still in the upper limit as for me,
also thinking that MOS is still ways more powerful compared with OS4.

/&

New-ish user here with my thoughts.

I originally got into MOS with the Efika, and I sold it when I was unhappy with the speed. Knowing a MacMini port was in the works, I bought a Mini in June this year only for the MOS port. So far I am very happy with it, but yes, the price is high for me right now. Not to say I wont end up buying it, but its on the back burner for a while.... I do completely agree with the posts about brining new uers on, but the price will definately deter some new guys.

@Elena
Quote:
I don't. But I do think it would be somewhat hard, MorphOS being all custom job without any direct relation to other OSes or platforms (that at least reduces the number of potential experts willing to take a look).

Quote:
In order to able say that you must've taken a look. Well, lets just say that things aren't as easy as they might appear from a brief glance.

I'm not claiming it'd be impossible to crack, I'm just saying that some considerable work has been put into making the protection fairly good. I've been around the block myself, too, and I made sure it won't be trivial.

Quote:

Don't worry, I was really reasoning by absurd :)
It would be too an effort for me when I could just pay :)
A different matter is when the price is the order of thousands. Or when you
must definitely modify a software or firmware to match your needs, or because
of a bug that nobody wants to fix... and you can't just pay, and you have no
access to the source code.
I never looked inside the MOS binary, I really have better things to do :)

I just would focus that all the users running MOS2 demo should hurt you
the same - and as I read, they're many. For the kind of job I make with it,
it would be frustrating, impossible to act this way for me. But for other users
it's perhaps a very little trouble having to reset after the demo times out.
If one makes habit of that, he will perhaps never buy it. So he's just a
potentially lost customer.

/&

I've just installed MorphOS on Mac mini of two friends (ex-amigans, now on Mac).

First, they said : it's fast !

I demoed MPlayer, OWB, Open Arena and others stuff. All was working nice and fast. But the time limit arrived and so the system slowed down. I have explained it cost 150 euros for a keyfile. And they both said it's too expensive.

So here another exemple of people (outside of our community) more or less interested by MorphOS but which won't register because of the high price.

Quote:

...and add that you can't simply go down the street and buy it, which might
be a further little annoyance. Ok there're currently no amiga products you
can buy that simple, even if here in Italy there's VirtualWorks where you
can buy OS4 from.

However I have some perplexity about those "more or less interested" people,
both regarding MOS and OS4. It's nice, it's fast... those are just courtesy words,
or merely the first impressions, even if founded. Only a person coming from Amiga world, as we are, may be really interested in MOS/OS4 at the present days.
As soon as your friend realized that he can't do with it all the "usual" stuff
as with a PC he wouldn't use it even if it was for free.
That's sad but we all know the story... Linux survived because it's free (even if
it's ugly).

/&

It seems from reading this thread that some people sold their previous MorphOS hardware + sometimes license to afford new HW + new license. Seems to me it allows to have more MorphOS users at the end instead of having people collecting multiple machines.

Also it seems that with the MacMini (Efika before but with a much more limited HW) the total cost of MorphOS capable HW + MorphOS has been lowered greatly.

I am not sure the "other people outside of the community" would buy it for 99 ? instead of 150.

Also it is not like MorphOS users spend a lot of cash on MorphOS software for the last years. With the free upgrades MorphOS 2 has been quite inexpensive over the years.
I am not saying it should be more expensive but If you did not buy it and missed enjoying it for the last few years because of a difference price of 50 ? it certainly mean you may have had other reasons not to buy it.

@Elena

You do not need a paypal account to pay by paypal, you can pay using a debit or credit card using the paypal website without an account.

no i won't register the macmini version. i will wait morphos 3.0 and only if they low the price.
since then i'll be happy with the registered 2.x on my peg2

Quote:

You could consider finding someone that is potentially interested in MorphOS and sell them your Peg2 with it's license, then use part of the money you would get from such sale to purchase the license for your 1.5GHz G4 MacMini (which will run MOS2.4 almost twice as fast as your Peg2).

You get your license for the MacMini plus extra money in your pocket and you are able to run MorphOS2.x almost twice as fast as you could before. = Win!

Someone (maybe an AmigaOS4.1 user since many of them are interested in getting the Peg2 and comparing AOS4.1 to MOS2.4) who doesn't have a computer to run MorphOS on gets one with a license already loaded with the OS, the license key and a bunch of software already configured, which is a big help for any MorphOS newbie = Win!

The MorphOS Dev Team gets another registration fee to fund further work and an increase of the installed user base by one more person = Win!

Looks like a Win-Win-Win situation to me, what do you think of that idea?

The only downside I can see from that proposal is that you might also be an AmigaOS4.x user and don't want to get rid of the Peg2 because it is currently the only computer that will run both AOS4.x and MOS2.x.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/10/26 22:24 ]

I won't register the MacMini MorphOS because I guess (never say never..) I won't buy a MacMini!!!
Since I like MorphOS too much (I guess I'm poisoned... ah ah ah!!), I would buy another license
if and when MorphOS will be on a much more expandible system.
I believe Team made and is making a greatest work and I can imagine how fast this awesome system runs on a 1.5 ghz G4. Really a temptation...
But Pegasos made the system much more complete, allowing me to install audio card, usb card and tv or wireless card. I'm a real well accustomed kid......
I would buy a license even if MorphOS should land on x86 platform.
Question is: would I buy a 150 euros license?
That's the price, if I want it I will pay the amount. I can discuss if the price is high, right or low () in MY OPINION, but I'm not able to say if is wrong or right.... I shoul be one of the team members to say it, due to quantify my work in developing, working on such system.

What would existing buyers think if price went down? They payed a certain price, and after a while, that price went down. That might offend them.
But that's a minor problem, given how this "market" is, and compared to the fact that many people don't register because of the price.