Getting that message would mean netstack couldn't start, which could be explained if you modified the config file in a bad way (not sure how it deals with malformed config files). But if you really put your original netstack.config back and still get that message, it just doesn't make any sense. So better doublecheck and see if you haven't touched anything else. At worst, just take the original file from ISO.

@Fab:

ok i got it. accidentaly i errase the file netstack in sys:morphos/net ...
i restore it from cd. i will try again your settings. wish me luck


-edit-
it's working now, but the speed is more or less the same. it's a continius up and down from 5 to 40 kb/sec while in osx 10.5.8 with firefox is stable at 650 kb/s
( i test it downloading the latest nvidia driver for gforce 9xxx xp version.)

mac mini 1.5ghz, 64mb vga, 1gb ram, 80gb hard disk, wifi, bluetooth, connected direct to a netfaster router.

[ Edited by amigagr on 2010/2/20 20:00 ]

Ok, then your issue is probably similar to the original issue of this thread, though it's still weird you get a quite higher speed with something like rapidshare. But a low and unstable speed clearly points to some negociation issue at network level, to me.

By the way, which other sites did you test? Because some can also filter on user-agent and limit speed to avoid download managers, for instance.

[ Edited by Fab on 2010/2/20 18:46 ]

more all less all the amiga like sites. the browsing in web it's not too bad.
and a download example, owb1.6.1.lha speed varies from 512b/s to 14kb/s.
most of the time is around 2kb/s to 4.5kb/s.

-edit-
example 2: an openbsd file, 34mb from ftp.otenet.gr
morphos/macmini ~10kb/s
osx ~500kb/s
morphos/pegasos ~450kb/s

[ Edited by amigagr on 2010/2/20 21:23 ]

-edit2-
and a bug? the file (xfont46.tgz) pasted the 34mb and stop the downloading at 44.9mb more than 114% of the original size.

[ Edited by amigagr on 2010/2/20 21:34 ]


-edit3-
i reboot and redownload the file. same results. it overdownloading the file to 131%.

[ Edited by amigagr on 2010/2/20 22:11 ]

About the speed, there's no difference between browsing and downloading, it goes through the exact same code path. Now, if you take owb archive as an example, it's a very bad one, because free.fr host filters depending on moon phase. Anyway, that ftp test on .gr host clearly indicates that you run into that negociation issue in your network, since you get 450kB/s speed with the pegasos (i assume you use a similar setup there).

As for the oversize thing for gzip files, it should be considered as a feature, actually. :)
It just ungzips the file on the fly, and it can't know in advance the uncompressed size, hence the >100% figure. Maybe i'll disable that for downloaded files, if it doesn't cause regressions for regular gzip'ed compressed pages, since it seems to confuse some. :)

[ Edited by Fab on 2010/2/20 22:15 ]

[ Edited by Fab on 2010/2/20 22:17 ]

yes pegasos is connected directly with a similar cable to the same router.

i download the latest iso of ppc freebsd and the size it was correct. after this i try with ports.tgz
a file of 46mb. after the real download it gone up to 700+% and end up in a file size of 332mb
and it's stil a .tgz file. if it's a feature it's very cool, just didn't know about it. don't disable it,
set in prefs an option to be turned on and off by the user.

-edit-
about the negociation issue, osx does not have the same problem...
so it looks like the problem is in ethernet's driver.

[ Edited by amigagr on 2010/2/21 1:15 ]

Quote:

The SYSTEM freezes. It?s not possible to move the mouse pointer or do any keyboard input (e.g. <lamiga><m>) . It?s not just the application not reacting.

After some seconds everything works fine again.

And as said before this does not happen on my Pegasos. And only if hostnames are used. Not when I use IP-adresses.

Hi,

I made another video of "Network Statistics" during play of a 2:30 min. video on the MacMini with MorphOS 2.4 through de LAN. The video was on a Pegasos2 HD pardition and was played on the MacMini with Mplayer. As you can see on the video I made of "Network Statistics" there are a kind of "drops" or "stops" or...? In fact the video plays fine and suddenly stops 2 secs or so and plays fine again and stops and plays...

BTW the same play on a Pegasos2 instead of a MacMini plays fine, not stops.

I tested this on another, a 2nd, MacMini (1.5 Ghz, 64 MB Vram, 1 GB Ram) as the tests I did before and here also the same problem, so IMO it's not the Hardware.

Here is the link to the video file:

http://www.rmsvideo.ch/morphos/

User: rms14@dmz.local
PW: rms4234

in the directory mos_24

- macmini_networkstats.avi (11 MB)

Quote:

Well, for me that sounds more like out of vmem issue than network issue :). Have you tried to run OWB on non enhanced screen or screen with less colors or resolution? Or on Ambient screen... or on non enhanced Ambient screen ;)

@rms
here the same with three Mac Mini G4@1500, gfx 64Mb (also in different LAN and routing), no problems with two Pegasos2 G4.
regards

Quote:

32mb of gfx memory is not much but i think that is enought for a browser, at least with the same machine tells that runs ok.

Quote:

Ah, I'm not the only one then... it's not great, but good to hear, so we know that there seems really be a problem with the device on MacMini then.

Regards

Christoph

Quote:

Well, 64 MB graphics ram should be enough to view a simple web page. Nonetheless I tried switching off Enhanced Mode. Doesn't make a difference.

Quote:

It certainly isn't sure. It depends how many screens you have open, in what resolution, depth and layers. On OSX you just have one screen in memory, while on MorphOS you can have several. With enhanced display, every window takes its space on vmem too, so window count affects too and for example when download window opens it might cause some swapping and freezing alone if you're on the limit.

As it was said that command-m keyboard shortcut doesn't work either when freezing happens, I assumed there are several screens open. Maybe OWB on its own screen even.

With big resolutions today, it isn't even sure if one (Ambient) screen fits into 32M with enhanced layers. Ambient disables enhanced mode automatically on my 1600x1200 screen with 32M mini, because it detects there isn't enough memory. And you can't fit too many screens in 32M even with lower resolutions like 1280x1024. 64M isn't that much either if you actively use many screens and want to keep enhanced modes on some.

Quote:

Ok, I wasn't sure if you really have 64M, because you said earlier "MacMini G4/1.4 Ghz, 1 GB Ram, 64 MB VRAM.". It must be 1.5GHz model then...

Quote:

Yes, it's a 1.5 GHz model. 1.4 wasd a typo

If you are nailing down a network driver issue, why putting a resource hungry application (a web browser) in between? It can't help but create confusion. I'd do tests with the lightest, GUI-less network applications available, such as downloding with "wget", maybe FTP...

Quote:
Sound like the behaviour I repeatedly obverved when ejecting a C/DVD. Often the system stalls for a moment then, too.
I think is is some prob on the pci bus/southbridge or so that halts the system. When ide can stall the system network can, too (both are on the pci bus)

Quote:

I know but i talking about one ambient screen without anymore screens, comparing with amiga os3.1 on a1200 i can open many screens without run out of chip memory, is like the manegement of windows was worst on mos (i know that 640x512 8 or 16 color are more ligh than 1280x1024 16k colours but a1200 just have 2mb of gfx memory).

This is not a blame for morphos, blame is not usefull for nothing, just i dont understand somethings sometimes.

=)

Quote:

It is pretty simple math, as far as I can understand :) There's certain amount of memory and certain things will consume it and nowadays resolutions will take considerably more than some old Amiga resolutions. If 640x512 mode in 16 colors needs about 160k of memory, it will fit quite many times in 2MB chip. While 1280x1024x32bit (5MB) doesn't that many times in 32MB.

And that calculation is for traditional 2D layers. If you use 3D layers (enhanced mode) in MorphOS, it will use memory considerably more. And if you use multiple screen buffers (DisplayEngine settings), memory is used even more :) These new additions are made in expense of graphics memory usage and aren't really suitable for all systems. Good thing is they're configurable :)

And actually "the management" is done better in MorphOS. If you run out of memory on Amiga's native modes, you just can't open more screens or allocate it more. Same situation on MorphOS (or RTG on real Amiga) and you still can open new screens, because data is swapped via ram when there isn't enough vmem free. And that swapping causes the short freezes and other effects in operation.

After some days of intensive testing trying to find a cure of this ethernet problem on the Mac mini I have discovered this.
And please take this numbers seriously, I also find it very strange that a music player can kill your network speed.

My mini can boot in two different states:
1. Nine times of ten reboots I get slow speed with Samba and FTP, in this case the test results (1) is valid. If I play some video's with MPlayer or use Ambients internal musik player to listen at my mp3's the recieve speed will be terribly slow.

2. One time of ten reboots or so I will notice full recieve speed with Samba and FTP, in this case the test results (2) is valid. Only if you play some mp3's with Ambient's internal music player you will notice a very slow samba and ftp connection when you recieve some files.

When MPlayer is playing a movie in these tests, the total CPU usage is about 15% so no heavy things.
The communication with samba and ftp protocol is between a PegasosII and a Mac mini on my local network, both are of course idle and registered with MorphOS 2.4.
Filesystem SFS is used, some tests with a FAT partition didn't give any interesting results.
--------------------


Test result's 1, (slow transfers 9 of 10 reboots).

285MB ftp recieve with ATC to ram: Average transfer rate = 4.6MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 0.58MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 0.77MByte/s

285MB ftp recieve with ATC to disk: Average transfer rate = 0.6MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 0.43MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 0.57MByte/s

285MB ftp send with ATC from ram: Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s

285MB ftp send with ATC from disk: Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 7.5MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s

FTP shows clearly that when you recieve to ram: or send there is a great speed boost, but if you play a mp3 or video at the same time, the recieve speed will be terrible slow, I wouldn't say anything if this was on a pc or mac, but I am not used to this (not multitasking) behaviour on MorphOS, lucky for me it's just a bug:)


285MB samba recieve to ram: Average transfer rate = 1.9MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 0.47MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 0.55MByte/s

285MB samba recieve to disk: Average transfer rate = 1.7MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 0.41MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 0.6MByte/s

285MB samba send from ram: Average transfer rate = 3.2MByte/s
285MB samba send from ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 3.1MByte/s
285MB samba send from ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 3.2MByte/s

285MB samba send from disk: Average transfer rate = 4.4MByte/s
285MB samba send from disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 4.3MByte/s
285MB samba send from disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 4.4MByte/s

Samba's recieve is very slow when you watch video or play some music at the same time.
-------------------




Test result's 2, (This is when we finally get some speed, 1 of 10 reboots).

285MB ftp recieve with ATC to ram: Average transfer rate = 8.4MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 4.5MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 1MByte/s

285MB ftp recieve with ATC to disk: Average transfer rate = 0.63MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 0.5MByte/s
285MB ftp recieve with ATC to disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 0.65MByte/s

285MB ftp send with ATC from ram: Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s

285MB ftp send with ATC from disk: Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 6.9MByte/s
285MB ftp send with ATC from disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 7.5MByte/s

FTP shows some very strange numbers when I recieve to disk, or recieve to ram: and playing a mp3 with Ambients internal music player.

285MB samba recieve to ram: Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 8MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 1MByte/s

285MB samba recieve to disk: Average transfer rate = 6.5MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 6.7MByte/s
285MB samba recieve to disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 1MByte/s

285MB samba send from ram: Average transfer rate = 3.6MByte/s
285MB samba send from ram: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 3.1MByte/s
285MB samba send from ram: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 3.7MByte/s

285MB samba send from disk: Average transfer rate = 5MByte/s
285MB samba send from disk: and MPlayer playing a movie, Average transfer rate = 5MByte/s
285MB samba send from disk: and Ambient internal player playing a mp3, Average transfer rate = 5MByte/s

Samba shows similar results as FTP, but one interesting thing is that sending from ram: is slower than sending from disk. I have of course run all this tests alot.


During all tests I had done, I had some total system freeze when sending data, but I can't for sure say that I don't had any system freeze during recieve.
Some of the Samba tests are verified on another Mac mini with similar results.
If you try to verify this, please reboot an test more than once to verify your tests.


I believe and hope this numbers will be a great help for developers to reproduce slow connections.

Quote:

Nice post, I know the mathematics but i forget the amount or ram busy with enhanced display or 3d stuffs, but still 32mb gfx ram can be enough for run a browser and some things without more screens, if mac mini becomes slow just with owb open you cant be out of gfx memory.

OWB uses a vmem bitmap for the active tab. So add that to the screen(s) vmem consumption.

dake, that's an awesome job of testing! Those kind of tasks require a lot of patience and involvement. I hope it's useful to research this mysterious problem.

@jcmarcos, Thanks. I have holiday now so I had alot of time to do this, I believe I spent 45hours in this.
There where many hard parts because at the begining I had no clue, and there was this strange speed boost at random reboots, strange numbers if recieving to ram: or disk and suddenly more strange when playing some music:) and of course this wonderful system freeze's.
Fab helped me to get full recieve speed again by lowering the priority of "Ambient Thread x [36]" (this is the thread started when playing a mp3 with Ambients internal player), I changed it from 10 to -1 and get full speed at network again:)
What I forgot to mention earlier is that I get alot of this network drops to 0byte/s and thats the reason to my slow average network speed, so the slow speed isn't constant, it varied alot.

Quote:

Yes you can. For example 1600x1200x32bit enhanced mode with fullscreen OWB window on Ambient screen takes more than 32M even with single buffering. It depends of screen resolution, OWB window size and enhanced mode settings. 32M just isn't quite enough for all the goodies with today's standards when resolutions have got pretty big etc.