"By the way are you sure you wouldn't like to see MorphOS running on something like this?"

Me, no! I would for sure!
Though I'm not able to...

> At one point Genesi announced intentions to bring a 5121e-based
> net-top product to market. Not all that long ago. It didn't have a
> card and wasn't any 5200B. Granny talked about the project and he
> was right in general but he was wrong that it was 5200B.

No, Granny didn't talk about that project. He talked about a former project which indeed was announced by Genesi to use the MPC5200B (plus onboard Volari gfx chip).

> The 5200B has a gfx card slot.

A chip doesn't have a slot. If you mean the Efika 5200B, you are right though.

> The 5121e has onboard gfx.

No, the MPC5121e has on-*chip* gfx, as it is a chip, not a board.

> I and everyone who recalls that announcement knows that it wasn't a
> 5200B.

Yes, I think nobody in his right mind would dispute the fact that an MPC5121e based device doesn't have an MPC5200B. Apart from that, at one (former) point Genesi announced intentions to bring an MPC5200B-based net-top product to market which didn't have a card (but an onboard Volari gfx chip).

> A 5200B device doesn't have onboard gfx.

Why should an MPC5200B mean that the device couldn't have onboard gfx? What about a mainboard with MPC5200B and an onboard gfx chip? In fact, Genesi once announced exactly that (MPC5200B plus onboard Volari gfx chip), and you very well know that fact. At least you would if you read and understood what I wrote to you in that other thread some months ago.

> Genesi didn't go that 5200B route until the Efika.

...which was way before their MPC5121e based announcements.

Hey Neko, how about fixing your site?

Just now, it seems, your "efika netbook" is not longer a "netbook", but a "smartbook", so you changed the page from https://www.genesi-usa.com/products/netbook to https://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook - but all the links from other pages still point to https://www.genesi-usa.com/products/netbook - not very clever.

Anyways, why not pursebook?

@ kolla

Thanks for the note. My mistake.

How about a nicer tone for future bug reports, though? They would be appreciated even more :)

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 26.04.2011 - 05:56 ]

> Freescale, which uses the term to refer to the board (with the gfx
> card slot). Click on the picture if you just can't believe it to be
> true.

What picture? Maybe wrong link? Freescale's evaluation board for the MPC5200B is called Lite5200B, not 5200B. The MPC5200B is the processor and the page you linked to is its product page.
Anyway, why are you suddenly distracting the discussion to Freescale boards when it was about which boards Genesi did or did not announce?

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 26.04.2011 - 05:55 ]

> Got to the page and click on "View Product Image."

This picture shows the evaluation board called Lite5200B (already linked to) and the complete development platform called Media5200. Just compare the picture on these product pages to the picture you referred to and you'll see. And is it really that you cannot comprehend that the MPC5200B product page you linked to is about a processor and not about a board? Or you're still playing dumb?

> I'm not distracting

You are. And you're not clever enough for me not noting that.

> I just don't have the time to go with every tiny bit of minutae you
> bring up.

You have so little time that you're suddenly not only discussing Genesi boards but also want to start discussing Freescale boards?

> At least you acknowledge that the discussion was about boards.

Yes, of course, boards with processors on them.

> It was clear I referred to the board.

No, it was not clear that by "5200B" you referred to Freescale's Lite5200B evaluation board when in the sentence before you were refering to Granny's mention of the MPC5200B *processor* and in the next sentence you were refering to the MPC5121e *processor* and generally the discussion is about *Genesi* boards, not Freescale ones.

> Did I not use the exactly proper terminology?

I think you're intentionally being vague hoping your utter cluelessness doesn't shine through. That's one very bad foundation for a factual discussion.

> It was clear I referred to the board.

No, see above.

> The reason that onboard graphics means the board couldn't be 5200B
> is that the 5200B doesn't have onboard graphics.

Is it now Freescale's MPC5200B based evaluation board you call "5200B" again? If yes: What has our discussion about Genesi boards to do with Freescale boards? Nobody ever said that Genesi were going to release the Freescale evaluation board when talking about Genesi's announcement of MPC5200B based board including Volari onboard gfx. Not Granny, not me. Why do you counter-argue with a Freescale board's specification at all, then? That doesn't make the slightest sense. Do you really think that because Freescale's Lite5200B lacks onboard gfx, Genesi/bplan couldn't develop an own MPC5200B based board *with* onboard gfx?

> I don't read all of your posts

You're so misinformed that I conclude that you read nearly none of my posts.

> I don't accept your representations about "MPC5200B with onboard
> Volari gfx chip" as "fact."

You think takemehomegrandma and me are fantasizing? You believe I hacked Genesi's server and placed BBRV's announcement (which I already hinted you at) of a board with MPC5200B and onboard Volari gfx there? Absolutely ridiculous, laughable.

> My recollection is that Genesi was planning to use a Volari 3VXT
> (or whatever the number is) *card* in the Efika (which is based on
> the 5200B board), which is nothing like what you're going on about.

Geez, I explained *it all* to you before in the "Volari" thread, including the differences between these two projects, of which one became reality (Efika Open Client with Volari gfx card, the reason for Frank "pega-1" Mariak to start Volari driver development) and the other (and prior) didn't (MPC5200B based Efika with onboard Volari gfx). It's all in the other thread. You just have to read with a powered on brain.

> I don't have the patience to play these games with you anymore.

You're the only one playing a game here, one of deliberate confusion.

> I don't think you're interested in learning anything

...says the one who obviously doesn't read my posts.

> you just want to argue.

No, I want to set you straight on facts. Which is really hard with you being such a lazy bugger.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 26.04.2011 - 05:54 ]

> No, I'm not distracting.

You are. And you are doing it right now by not answering my factual arguments.

> I'm playing it straight.

Laughable. Everytime you realize your claims are exposed as the nonsense they are, you distract.

> You are the one who is the trickster.

Funny boy, you are.

> I say virtually none of the things you attribute to me in your
> insulting previous post

You said *everything* I "attributed" to you (rather: quoted you) in my previous post. It's all there, just copied.

> anymore than I said "the gfx core" when you originally began
> twisting my words

The only thing twisting was your mind twisting itself. You said everything I "attributed" to you back then.

> oh yes I believe that to be true.

The same as you believe your nonsense claims about Genesi and Freescale boards and Freescale processors to be true, right.

> You're a pathetic little boy

And you're a clueless misinformed lazy bum.

> I hope you grow up and are not still doing this when you are old.

I hope you take yourself the time and read what I wrote *for once*.

So much love... Wonder what could be achieved with all this wasted energy!
But guess what? I still can imagine Velcro and Andreas drinking beer and laughing together about all this in some future encounter.

Quote:

Hah, that wouldnt be half as fun! ;)

The truly funny part is that I stumbled on the term "smartbook" just last week and thought for myself "Wonder how long it takes for Bill Buck to pick this up?", so watching the "netbook" turn into "smartbook" on a reload in my browser was rather appreciating, to say the least.

[ Edited by kolla on 2009/10/5 19:31 ]

@ kolla

Quote:

The use of the term smartbook had been considered months ago for the first time, actually :) Back then, nobody else but Qualcomm had publically adopted the term for ARM-powered portable computers yet. Also, smartbook is involved in similar, albeit smaller trademark issues as Intel had had with 'netbook' before they eventually came to an agreement with Psion. It seemed wise to wait and see how the trademark situation would develop.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 26.04.2011 - 05:51 ]

Before Genesi started with the 5121 there were plans to do a 5200 based device with onboard gfx. I have the mails somewhere on my hd. Initially in summer 2005 the idea was to integrate an ATI chip, later the Volari was hot. Thing is, plans emerged and vanished that frequently, that it doesn't really matter. Eveventually it didn't came to a product, thus arguiung about it is rather void.
Yes, the idea of an eclipsis reloaded was cool and I was back then quite confident it would have had some potential. As Asus proved in 2007 the idea of a cheap sub-subnotebook was indeed a successful idea. Well, things for Genesi didn't worked out as thought. Nobody to blame, no need to waste tears about lost chances....

And this fighting and bitching of two very kindergarden alike behaving persons here is just pathetic.

> No, I'm not distracting, you mental midget.

Again, you're doing it. You're insulting me instead of answering my factual arguments, which on page 6 of this thread have been:

1. Takemehomegrandma didn't talk about an MPC5121e based project but about a prior MPC5200B (plus Volari gfx chip) based project.
2. Genesi once announced an MPC5200B based Efika with onboard Volari gfx chip.
3. Freescale's evaluation board for the MPC5200B is called Lite5200B, not 5200B.
4. The MPC5200B is not a board but a processor and the page you linked to is its product page.
5. The picture on the MPC5200B product page you linked to shows the Lite5200B and the Media5200. These systems feature the MPC5200B, but they are not the MPC5200B.
6. The fact that Freescale designed their Lite5200B without onboard gfx doesn't mean Genesi couldn't design an own MPC5200B based board another way, i.e. with onboard gfx chip.
7. Genesi's announcement of the MPC5200B based Efika with onboard Volari gfx chip is on Genesi's server (powerdeveloper.org) for everybody to see.
8. There were (at least) two Genesi projects involving Volari gfx: 1st one was an MPC5200B based Efika with onboard Volari gfx chip. It didn't come to fruition. 2nd one was the Efika Open Client with Volari gfx card. That one was delivered and became the reason for Frank "pega-1" Mariak to start Volari driver development for MorphOS.

> I told you, it's that I don't want to waste time with you any more.

And still you are, insulting me. Better read and understand my arguments so we'll reach to a state of factual discussion. But maybe you rather like to continue throwing mud and insulting me instead of arguing like a sane person.

> What you consider your "factual arguments" are just useless, futile
> constructs to give you an excuse to bicker about something.

The 8 points I listed above are nothing of that. Everybody with half a brain could see. These 8 points are factual statements of mine that you have denied being true despite me having had proven them several times already with the help of external links. It's you who simply cannot accept historical and present facts, but wants to (re)write history and present as he likes.

> Please, wave bye now.

I already waved bye to your sanity long ago.

> this fighting and bitching of two very kindergarden alike behaving
> persons here is just pathetic.

I don't think that upholding historical and present facts against Velcro_SP's distortion of history and present is in any way kindergarden alike behaving or pathetic. One could argue that it's not important part of history and present at all but it seems to be important enough for Velcro_SP to continue spreading his false claims and even incessantly inventing new nonsense to cover his false claims.

Quote:

I see two very kindergarten alike behaving persons here, one act like a 4 year old smartass, and the other as a kindergarten teacher.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 26.04.2011 - 05:53 ]

@ VelcroSP

You know, an argument always has two parties involved. And arguing is good and a kind of culture and so on, but often the point is overseen when an argument should be stopped and when continuing it makes all involved look rather stupid. You know, I neither dislike you, nor Andreas (why should I ?), and since I know you know some German I'll give you a saying: "Der Klügere gibt nach". Hence, my suggestion to just move on and don't care too much.
Holds true for all involded. EOD regarding this issue by me.

edit: Safari and this forum messed up the ü character...


[ Edited by Zylesea on 2009/10/6 13:37 ]

Quote:

When playing Poker, or any other card came, you can only play with the cards you have at hand. At one time, the 5200 seemed like a "good-ish" hand. Then came a hand based on the 5121e. Genesi never played it out though, they folded those hands. But in this round, they sit with a Full House, based on the i.MX515, and finally they feel they have a good enough hand to actually chip in and participate in the game.

Their objectives hasn't changed though, they have been *exactly the same* for several years, and they are *still* playing the very same game of Poker. But this time around, unlike the times before, their new hand is good enough to be played out.

Arguing any more over past hands that never came into play is beyond pointless, it's just plain stupid IMHO. Those hands are folded and gone. It's *the future* that is interesting, and it looks like all the future cards of interest to this game Genesi is playing comes from the *ARM* deck of cards!

Have we a ETA for the Note Smartbook?

> I am not going to let that duplicitous little weasel go at me
> without responding.

Yeah, I urge you to respond to my factual claims instead of distracting more and more.

> The guy literally changes my words so he can argue with them forever.

I changed nothing. I merely quoted you on the nonsense you've been spreading.

> He changed "*a* gfx *coprocessor*" to "*the* gfx *core*"
> (emphasis added).

I didn't.

> he says he will do it all he likes.

No, I said I will quote you all I like.

> He [...] inserts [brackets] with stuff I never said

You mean where you were refering to what takemehomegrandma wrote, expressed that you share his opinion and afterwards disputed all that? You're full of inconsistency.

> or meant.

It's your problem if you say things you never meant.

> I say I didn't say or mean that

But you said it. Again: It's your problem if you say things you don't mean. And regarding the things you afterwards claimed you meant: they didn't make sense and they were contradicting themselves, and they still are.

> he says yes you did and I will do it all I like.

I said I will quote you all I like and I will expose your contradictions and inconsistencies all I like. And I will. Promised.

> Andreas makes up stuff about me some more, saying I am making
> claims and distortions about history.

...and present. And you are. Everybody can read it up.

> I did not.

Not true.

> Most recently I said my recollection was that Genesi planned a
> 5200B with a Volare V3XT card.

Your recollection? That's funny now as that is what I told you back then after you remembered things wrong as usual. And as I told you numerous times already, that project was not only planned but also came to fruition as a selling product.
And what about all the other things you said on the last pages of this thread (see my 8 points)?

> I'm pretty near 100% sure about that

You can be. It's an information provided to you by me after you forgot about it.

> but even if I were wrong

You are not in that point, trust me. But you are wrong in everything else.

> it doesn't mean I am making false claims about history.

...and present. You are. See my 8 points. It's full of rectifications of your nonsense claims you made in this very thread.

> I said it was my recollection.

And your "recollection" that such a project existed was right. Everything else of your "recollection" is flawed.

> By saying I recall a 5200B with a Volare card plan, I don't "deny"
> any other plan.

To quote you from this very thread:

----------
"Granny talked about the project and he was right in general but he was wrong that it was 5200B."
----------
How can you say he was wrong if you don't deny that MPC5200B plus onboard Volari gfx project announcement exists?

----------
"The 5200B has a gfx card slot. The 5121e has onboard gfx."
----------
That was your reasoning as to why the Efika with onboard Volari gfx couldn't have been MPC5200B based but must have been MPC5121e based. Why such reasoning if you didn't deny the MPC5200B plus onboard Volari gfx project announcement?

----------
"I and everyone who recalls that announcement knows that it wasn't a 5200B."
----------
Why do you bring up your recollection of an MPC5121e based project that was supposed to have no gfx chip onboard because the processor already incorporates on-chip PowerVR gfx, when it was about a board with onboard Volari gfx chip? What should that prove, if not that takemehomegrandma and I were wrong?

----------
"A 5200B device doesn't have onboard gfx."
----------
That's a very blunt evidence that you denied the existence of the MPC5200B plus onboard Volari gfx project takemehomegrandma and I were talking about.

----------
"The reason that onboard graphics means the board couldn't be 5200B is that the 5200B doesn't have onboard graphics."
----------
Again, very blunt evidence.

----------
"I don't accept your representations about "MPC5200B with onboard Volari gfx chip" as "fact.""
----------
It's getting even better.

I think that's enough proof that you denied the existence of said project. I guess now you'll come up with your "he's making up quotes I never wrote" lies again.

> All that rubbish he's saying in his numbered list he said I
> "denied was true" and I did no such thing.

You did. I can provide for all the quotes to prove you did.

> And that crap that *I* insult *him*? What a hypocrite Andreas is! In
> his very post before that and many other of them he's insulting me!

I insulted you only in direct answers to insults against me. You did start it, for sure. Admittedly, I could have ignored your insults, but then you would have read none of my postings. Sane and factual arguing is apparently not what you're interested in, after all. Else you wouldn't have distracted in every answer post from my sane arguing to your insane insulting.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 24.04.2011 - 07:27 ]

Nice example. That proves that your claim I'm arguing for arguing's sake is false. I admit when I'm wrong, I always do. Thanks for proving my point.

> His gratitude didn't last long.

Why should it? I thanked you for correcting me regarding my claim where I was wrong. Should I thank you for your numerous nonsense claims that don't have anything to do with the Atom based LimePC thing just because you were once right while I was wrong?

> Judge for yourself who makes incorrect claims.

Full ack.

> I don't have the time to respond to his latest strange ramble below

It's really symptomatical how you alway have time to respond to my posts but never ever address in detail my factual claims about the matter.

> he removes from context my comments referencing Granny

The context was the Volari thread, so takemehomegrandma's post was about some Efika project with Volari gfx (be it on-board or on-card). There were (at least) 2 Genesi projects with Volari gfx, one came to fruition, one didn't (the latter being the one takemehomegrandma was about). Both of them were based on the MPC5200B. You said that takemehomegrandma was wrong with the project he told about being based on the MPC5200B. In claiming he was wrong you denied the existence of that MPC5200B based project he told about.

> I referred only to the project that became the CherryPal.

But what does that have to do with Volari gfx at all (that's what the thread was about), and the reason for Frank "pega-1" Mariak to start Volari driver development? Remember, you said you think that Genesi's MPC5121e based project was the reason for him starting Volari driver development.
And why do you claim several times that takemehomegrandma was wrong back then with his claims about MPC5200B and Volari, when you are talking off-topic about a completely different project? That would be like: "My shoes are red" - "No, you are wrong, because my hat is black". Ridiculous.

> I didn't deny other announcements

You did. See my list of quotes above. 4 of them 6 don't have anything to do with you referring to what takemehomegrandma said, or you referring to any MPC5121e based project. They are about the technical feasibility of an MPC5200B based project involving onboard gfx.

> it'd be silly to do so.

Full ack. But you did.

> He cowardly suggests that I lied

Wrong. If I think someone lies I say so. You were the one superfluously trying to educate me on the difference between lying and just being wrong, remember? In this Volari matter I think you're just being wrong. Can't you for once admit you were wrong and made false claims? I can, as you proved.

> I told the truth

No, you made false statements. And by saying you told the truth you are wrong once more.

> or minimum what I believed to be true.

I never disputed that regarding the Volari matter. You may believe you told the truth, but you didn't. Unintentionally making false claims doesn't render these claims true.

> He fabricates a quote.

Where exactly?

> It's the usual.

It's usual that I quote my discussion partner in online forum based discussions. That's a necessity for a good factual argument.

> He'll do whatever he can to keep the argument going.

You just proved the contrary by refering to that Atom based LimePC matter, remember? It's in your post. Apart from that, I'll do whatever I can to make you admit you were wrong when I think you are/were wrong. And I'll do whatever I can to expose your nonsense claims that you use to cover your prior nonsense claims that you use to cover...

> It's trolling.

...that you do.