The future of MorphOS?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1217 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:


    Zylesea wrote:
    The alternatives are Zune and Wanderer. But of course this would consume a lot of time. And I guess it would become more expensive in the end than to fullfill the balances.



    What they can do:

    1. Drop the programmers and dont pay them, add Zune, rewrite MOS.

    2. Drop the programmers, pay them, add Zune, rewrite.

    3. Keep the programmers, pay them, continue where you left off.


    #3. You end up saving face on top of that.

    But what the he** do I care.. I dont have a Pegasos, but I was at least HOPING that this system would have a strong following w/commercial software support. (before you get on me for not having a Pegasos and replying..I do intend to buy one but not without real software support).
  • »15.11.04 - 16:34
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    personaly i would jsut like to thank bbrv for being completly honest with us about the issue. to me it shows that they do care and want to make things right....thats jsut how i see it
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »15.11.04 - 16:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    If asked me I would try to go route #3. But I am wther enough into the details to judge if this route is still a valid option nor if the mentioned claims are correct or not.
    I only said that these were the *options*, not that I would like to see them happen.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »15.11.04 - 17:09
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Nitro
    Posts: 106 from 2003/8/24
    From: Albuquerque, NM
    @ Zylesea

    route #3? do you mean OS4, that bbrv was talking about over at OSNEWS.COM?
  • »15.11.04 - 17:24
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    wolfe
    Posts: 118 from 2003/8/8
    From: Somewhere Some...
    @bbrv

    Time to kiss some arse and get them back on board. Release 1.5 and charge $50 for every copy. Generate $, stay alive. I don't know any one person who would buy a peg for linux. A PC would be cheaper, but the promise of MOS makes it worthwhile. Suck it up - get it together and make it happen - NOW.

    :-D
  • »15.11.04 - 17:27
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    there will be no MOS 1.5 as far as i know i believe the next release will be 2.0....someone correct me if i am wrong
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »15.11.04 - 17:28
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  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Well there are a few choice curse words I can think of having read this news today, but I'll be polite!

    I have no doubt this situation has been 'bubbling under' for a while and the public explosion represents something that may well now be unsalvageable. :-(

    Whilst it's always been clear MOS doesn't pay the bills (and probably wouldn't for the forseeable future) my general assumption that development was entirely an unpaid effort is clearly false (well, at least it wasn't intended as unpaid.)

    At least we all now understand the silence on MOS progress but with that understanding comes pain! That's not to say I think there has been no progress but attempting to resolve this situation clearly detracts time and motivation from the team.

    MorphOS without MUI? No thanks.

    Turning my Pegasos off now, I hope someday it gets turned back on again.

    [ Edited by JKD on 2004/11/15 10:51 ]

    [ Edited by JKD on 2004/11/15 11:37 ]
  • »15.11.04 - 18:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    @ nitro

    No route #3 as MagicM suggested, i.e. solve the differences
    between genesi and those developers and go back to work.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »15.11.04 - 18:44
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  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Paying for MorphOS is a stop-gap solution:

    1. At $50 doesn't look like it would pay off past debts let alone sustain salary.

    2. As soon as a paid version appears, there will be a pirated version thereby limiting revenue.

    3. As soon as a paid version appears, there will be the malcontents who whine about it, bug fixes for old versions etc.

    4. It has been my impression that MorphOS guys feel that the costs of support probably outweigh the potential revenue that could be generated.
  • »15.11.04 - 18:57
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Nitro
    Posts: 106 from 2003/8/24
    From: Albuquerque, NM
    @ Zylesea
    Well that`s the best thing that could happen, and I`d be more than happy to pay for MorphOS but like JKD is saying somebody will always put up a bit torrent of it. Even if all 900 MDC members put up 50
    euro each, it`s not enough.
  • »15.11.04 - 19:08
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Sphinx_Ra
    Posts: 276 from 2003/3/15
    From: The Netherlands
    Keep The Momentum Going Guys hehe... It's not the end of the world... It's just a bloody OS... :-) There is always Windows with alot of drivers for everything :-) If there will be no MOS 1.5 or II or whatever before or on Christmas or end of the year poundsmack can buy my Pegasos II/G4 :-P [ Edited by Sphinx_Ra on 2004/11/15 21:01 ]
  • »15.11.04 - 19:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    td741
    Posts: 224 from 2003/4/2
    Then the issue is... Who gets the money? Is it the people on the list waiting for payment? Is it the people that are still working on MorphOS (those not on the list)?
    Steph
  • »15.11.04 - 19:46
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  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    >1. At $50 doesn't look like it would pay off past debts let alone sustain salary.

    Ask it this way: which is better, nothing at all or at least something? Maybe Genesi could even help to add the final sum?


    >2. As soon as a paid version appears, there will be a pirated version thereby limiting revenue.

    Nothing we can do about it. Except only hope there are enough loyal MOS-users. And honestly, I think there are.

    >3. As soon as a paid version appears, there will be the malcontents who whine about it, bug fixes for old versions etc.

    And how does it differ from now? :)


    >4. It has been my impression that MorphOS guys feel that the costs of support probably outweigh the potential revenue that could be generated.

    Funny logic. Money was what some of the guys were after, right?
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »15.11.04 - 20:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    DSLCC
    Posts: 246 from 2003/5/14
    From: Fort Worth, TX...
    Guess I'll insert my reply here.

    Since about 6 months ago - Mac OS X has become my main system because it is a working BSD distro that prints and has a working web browser. For a long time now, I've just used MOS 1.4.2 to run DNETC! I am forced to use the Mac platform for useful work.

    I am willing to wait for the completion of MOS for the Pegasos (Printing, TCP, etc.). I really like MOS so I hope that the situation is solved.

    :-D

    [ Edited by DSLCC on 2004/11/15 15:33 ]
    Pegasos 1 G3 MorphOS 1.4.5* Mac G4 Sawtooth 1Ghz Tiger 10.4.1* Both Rock! :-D
  • »15.11.04 - 21:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    Hi BBRV,

    First I want tell Ilove the couple of PEG/MOS.

    But this are not clrear with genesi responsabilities.

    first you tell this about thendic and you tell this peoples are
    demanding theyr money to the wrong company because genesi is not
    thendic,:


    Quote:


    bbrv wrote:

    Some of the people referenced at the start of this email had agreements with the former company we funded in France. That company was closed. Any valid claims were honored and paid in accordance with French law. It fact, former employees were compensated (and are still) under the French social system. It is very unfortunate that situation did not resolve itself as we intended it to. We lost alot of money, time and effort there. We hope you won't forget everything we did do in that period.

    Best regards,
    Raquel and Bill :-)

    [ Edited by bbrv on 2004/11/15 13:08 ]



    but later you tell this :
    Quote:


    This all boils down to a community of people that share a vision for what MorphOS could be. That only happens when the whole contributing team shares the same vision and the responsibility to make it happen. We don't think this is the way to work. We have traded may emails with David and he and the others have been paid as much as we could afford to pay them. For example, David was paid $2000 in September.

    Hi MagicM, we have not dropped any one. It looks like they have dropped us...:-) We have always explained to David and Stefan that if they were part of the future they would be paid, but that after everything that happened last year this would take time. People are still being paid. The ones that are *helping* are first. We have all the documentation and we will make it public at the right time if need be.

    R&B




    So, if I understand, you are doing your best , but the money that are
    demanded is not just a dream or somthing like that. This money is just
    money you have to pay to your employees. So in conclusion, your are
    mising money, you cant pay your employees and they dont want send
    theyr work : morpohs. So, the pice that are not working good on this
    puzzle is Genesi.

    Please, stop telling to us about your money problems.
    Pay your employees if you can. If you cant and they decid to stop developing MOS then tell it to us clearly, but dont let us waitting during long months "years" whishing and angle will fall from the sky to save you projects.

    If bought my PEG I then the PEG II, it was because of MOS existence. If MOS desapere, I'll stop using it.


    [ Edited by serge on 2004/11/15 23:11 ]
  • »15.11.04 - 21:31
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  • Just looking around
    pikapika
    Posts: 1 from 2004/11/15
    could it be an idea toput Morphos in free licence (gpl or bsd) ? it could bring many people to developp it.
    but surely it wouldn't resolve the programmer's payement issue....
  • »15.11.04 - 22:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    You mean like AROS? Yes, the hordes of developers are really lined up!
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.11.04 - 22:42
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 16 from 2003/5/16
    From: Britanny
    Hello.

    As I've been asked to do so, and also for I hate being lied at,
    I want to clarify things. I left the Morphos team because my work was
    finished there. And also.. Here's my story. Of course, it'll be ruined
    by fanatics everywhere, but please consider that I try to tell the
    facts as straigt as I can.

    Someone from the Morphos team, in early 2002, asked me if I wanted to be
    part of something I've had hardly hear about before : Morphos. Of course
    I took it as the chance of my life and accepted gratefully.

    I began "working" for morphos in april 2002. At that time i had no ppc and
    it took me 6 months to afford a ppc and bvision for my A1200 in order to be
    compatible.. My real work started in october 2002 for morphos , as a GUI
    graphist mostly, although I did many things alongside. Just like every
    Morphos fan out there I suppose. Apart from Morphos became my life.

    In between, bbrv came and offered us to finance the project. As he had
    already some bad reputation in France, I couldn't resist to comment about
    the choice, but I had no responsability in Morphos whatsoever, so I
    thought... Who cares ?

    The 15 may 2003, i've been taling with bill buck and told him i had no
    work to the question 'what are you doing as a living?'. He wasn't
    interested by my graphician skills, but since i had Spanish language and
    website coding knowledges, he offered me money or a contract if I could
    come up with a full spanish website for the 17 may.
    There was some big investment made by the spanish government into linux
    boards and applications, and he wanted to benefit from these. The 17 may,
    the site was ready. Written from scratch, without any website builder or
    php engine.

    Pleae note : bbrv asked me not to mention amiga, for it could have been
    dangerous to gather these spanish funds.

    Between may and until the beginning of august 2003, I had no news from
    the contract/money, but one offer of 500 francs (75 euro) wich i found
    ridiculous at that time provided the amount of work me and my friends,
    Juan Marcos, Doraemon and others, translators, writers, a real website
    team did. I removed my stuff from the morphos 'secret' FTP as a kind of
    warning, since nobody cared, and most thought I was boring to ask for
    stuff i was promised. I closed the website too. bbrv had money at that
    time, and i couldn't understand why he never signed or offered anything
    better than 500 F.. I put back the site a day or two after. Along with
    my Artwork. And it had a benefit ;

    Mid august : I received an antidated contract for july, august and
    september. I had to give back 900 euro to the unemployment help
    provided my work officially started in july. My contract implied 1000
    euro per month. I had more when I was working as ruling my marine shop,
    but the temptation to work in the amiga world was too strong.

    This contract was a reward for the Pegasos España website, and it was
    supposed to be nothing more. But bbrv came back and we talked about a
    japanese website and a portugese website. I can't recall the reasons
    now, but i'm sure there was some good ones. bbrv is a smart man.

    End of july, bbrv leaves France for USA.

    Finally I started to work on some Portugese website in september'03,
    and some PHP web engine in order to automatise the website creation.

    At the end of september, bbrv told me that he kept me in the company.

    During september and october, no money was wired. bbrv used to pop and
    tell us it was nothing big, that Pretory USA had problems to wire the
    funds to Thendic.

    In mid november, we received the money for september. Not much, 1000
    euro. I started to eat my economies to afford a car.

    At the end of November I was told by Thierry Velasco, that ruled Thendic
    France, that i had a contract (?!) for the months of October and November.
    I said that i wasn't aware such thing and that I never received the
    contract.

    When no contract is being etablished in France you automatically enter a
    long time worker state, so I wasn't afraid and was pretty confident in
    bbrv and thierry velasco. He told me that i would receive the contracts
    soon, along with new contracts for december and onwards. I thought well,
    okay, it's no big deal. I tend to prefer short term conotracts, to keep
    my freedom.

    December 2003, release of Pegasos Japan. A full PHP driven, website,
    with forums and every necessary feature for a usergroup, all in japanese,
    based on my web engine. Translated by a nice man, that left the community
    since then, unpaid, too. He only wanted a board.

    In december 2003, Thierry Velasco started to be really vulgar in Paris
    offices. He told everyone that I would never receive my contracts, and
    also told in front of several persons that we only were a bunch of ass
    hair. You cut one, there's another one growing behind. I've been told the
    stories by three different people at different times. The same story.
    I pass the details.

    The 23 of december, bbrv came by and told us the money we were awaiting for
    october, november and december was wired. It was a great day, I afforded
    everything for my family and my gf. The 25 i received my Pegasos 2,
    before everyone. Another great day. My new version of the pegasos España
    website was almost ready for release and betatested. Then someone from
    the offices in Paris, some Mos related guy, called me the 27 and said
    'sit down, please. We've been fooled. no money was wired. nothing.'

    I was ruined. I'd bug bbrv for money before, but never had the feeling
    that I would end in the street. This feeling, I hope few people knows it.
    My parents are ill, my gf had no job and I had no money. I was stuck.
    And without any papers to claim my unemployment rights .. for The french
    government I was employed and had money. It's like that, our system is
    very strict. If I decided to let down everything, I would have lost all
    my money for my work between october and january. 3500 euro. Maybe nothing
    for you, but for someone that was paid a month over two during ages, it
    was some treasure.

    Some global action in front of the law almost started a month ago, but
    someone in the offices wanted to wait some more, just to be sure he would
    get unemployement help. It takes 6 months of work before employement
    helps starts here.

    I went to see a lawyer in mid january, I still had no papers, and it
    became evident that Thendic-France would close soon.
    (according to my friends in Paris, Mr Velasco looked very exhausted. he
    was often away, and talked very few). It was hard times for all of us
    I suppose. I don't blame him for the insults in my back, I'm sure anybody
    in that situation would have become nervous.

    The lawyer asked me why i didn't came before, heh. Around the 20 of
    january, I finally receive my contracts... For october and november.
    I refused to sign that, provided It made me lose december and january, and
    for it's higly illegal to sign such a contract, (a contract ought to
    be signed the seven days past it's beginning at MAX.)... Since I kept
    doing my job.

    [ And well I was offered in december a 'new contract for 'december and
    onwards' at the end of the one i never saw, recall it ? ;)
    (TO be precise, I kept working even after Thendic closed, until the end of
    april, with the strange hope that everything would return back in order
    sooner or later. We had the product. We had the best men, and some nice
    advertisement ('propaganda?') almost everywhere.) ]

    Finally, I am not unemployed. Thanks to my coding skills, and the fact that
    bbrv pushed me into web coding, I was able to survive. And also pasta. Loads
    of pasta, during all these months. BUT I never was able to claim for
    unemployment heps, or any help related, since my contract was never ended
    correctly. The french state considers that i'm still working... for a dead
    company.

    I'm now fighting against the liquidator for him to give me the damn papers
    i need and the money everybody received in Paris...but me. I have no
    particular social help, and i've been publicly insulted several times on
    forums. I tend to ignore forums. My reputation went >NIL: of course. When
    bbrv said that I was abusing the social helps, it wasn't true. When my
    action will be finished, my right for unemployement helps will be outdated.
    SO no, I don't abuse my people, my country.

    I'm not the man that financed a computer with our National Company security
    funds. Not even the one that forgot to pay the 532 Pretory people between
    april 2003 and for some, until now. Many families, with childs. Just for
    a bunch of silicium I don't even fully own the rights.
    That person may faint not being aware, I'm sure I would be very aware of
    everything that happens into a company I own 93% of.

    Nowee
  • »15.11.04 - 23:55
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bbrv
    Posts: 750 from 2003/2/14
    From: Earth
    As we own and control this site. We made a decision to leave this post here. Over time we will post definitive and complete information about the untruth of this post and the person who made it.

    It is a sad day, but it would be worse if we censored the post and removed it.

    Sincerely,
    Raquel and Bill
  • »16.11.04 - 00:32
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 44 from 2004/6/17
    From: France
    Stop working for these stupid people. They aren't clever enough to make money the right way. Working without any contract is illegal in France and you must be paid each month. If a month is missing, stop the work !!! You'd rather go to the employement agency to get a real job...

    When they speak about the MOS Team in this thread they say something and the opposite in the next post.

    The reality is simple : they want MOS 1.5 (It's probably ready) and they
    know the MOS Team can't sell their product to another company, so they negociate the price with a very special technic :-D
    BBRV 's advice for the MOS Team is to develop for MAC users???haha!!!He may want to say that this way he would maybe pay for MOS as the MOS team would have the possibility to sell his work to another company no?
    Such a way of thinking is related to psychologic problems not to business. My suggestion for the MOS Team is to not deliver anything to Genesi until they get paid or at the end to sell MOS by themself. They'd rather also find a real job quickly...
    I'm interested to buy MOS 1.5 directly to this unpaid coders ;-)
    When Dre@ms Com3 Tru3!!!
  • »16.11.04 - 00:33
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 44 from 2004/6/17
    From: France
    Yes leave this post and we leave this site lol
    MORPHOS : "Time for a change" maybe a company change.
    When Dre@ms Com3 Tru3!!!
  • »16.11.04 - 00:37
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 44 from 2004/6/17
    From: France

    Edited by Hooligan: Flamebait and dancing on the grave
    When Dre@ms Com3 Tru3!!!
  • »16.11.04 - 01:03
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bbrv
    Posts: 750 from 2003/2/14
    From: Earth
    Hi tetuzo, who are you?

    Do you own a Pegasos? Have you used MorphOS?

    We are not going anywhere and neither are Ralph or Frank. 30000 Euros won't be enough for MUI and Ambient/Voyager.

    We will separate 1.5 from the future of MorphOS, that is from a Genesi perspective. If MorphOS users like the "plug-ins" they can buy them. In the meanwhile, MorphOS 1.4 is fully paid for. We could even add a few things to this like TCP/IP support.

    There are many hard working and talented developers out there that do not support this approach seen today.

    R&B
  • »16.11.04 - 01:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    DSLCC
    Posts: 246 from 2003/5/14
    From: Fort Worth, TX...
    Quote:


    bbrv wrote:

    We will separate 1.5 from the future of MorphOS, that is from a Genesi perspective. If MorphOS users like the "plug-ins" they can buy them. In the meanwhile, MorphOS 1.4 is fully paid for. We could even add a few things to this like TCP/IP support.

    R&B




    Can you do anything about TurboPrint? It's still not working reliably out here! :-)
    Pegasos 1 G3 MorphOS 1.4.5* Mac G4 Sawtooth 1Ghz Tiger 10.4.1* Both Rock! :-D
  • »16.11.04 - 01:24
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 44 from 2004/6/17
    From: France
    I own a company and we need a little OS for embedded components... It's maybe a great opportunity for us for our projects in the near future..
    I've test morphos and It's great enough.

    Bye
    When Dre@ms Com3 Tru3!!!
  • »16.11.04 - 01:35
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