No, I mean Apple hardware.

Anyway I hope that when Genesi receives Freescales money, they solve their problems with developers so a new version gets released ASAP...

Hmmm... bad news for sure, be it true or not...

This kind of "news" will get a bad reputation on both MorphOS and Genesi, which will in turn keep users away.

In most cases there is truth on both sides, I think. Maybe Genesi wasn't always nice to MOS devteam, but maybe MOS devteam wasn't nice the whole time as well.
Because most of us don't know the contracts between both parties, we should keep ourselves out of this "discussion".

I hope that both parties are old enough to settle down the current problems and get work done again.
If MOS devteam is doing their work properly, they deserves to get paid properly.

When I offer a free service to other, I can put it up and put it down to my likings (been there, done that ;), but when I have serious work to do and contracts, than this childish website foo is plain wrong, IMHO. If there're contracts and they miss money, they should get an attorney...

*sigh*

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I hope the things will get better with Genesi now, at least it seems to have a good chance with the Freescale and I must say I would hate if it turns out that there won't be futher upgrades for the PegasosII (Dual CPU cards and such).

I will understand if you ditch the support for MorphOS, I really don't see much of a future for it, at the moment the market is all to small for it and the current official version lacks all to much. At least GNU/Linux does work, which seems to become the only OS here, as soon as I have got the Peg1 upgraded or sold.

Ralph and Frank are still very much a part of Genesi/bplan. MorphOS development will continue. Some of the key players and components may change.

R&B

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Are you sure? I am not!

@bbrv

Ok, guess I can remove my IRC-Quit message, now that you show it
was nothing but a lie.

"About the same time the world figures out that Linux is not the answer we hope to be there." bbrv

Most of MorphOS is still in bplan/Genesi. Some is not. If we can figure out a way to bring it back into the mix we will. If we are going to be held hostage for something we do not agree with we will not and will find another solution. Simple.

MorphOS II is coming in a way that no one expects...

R&B

One thing I know is after over 10 years of problems the Amiga had, its still here. Even after Palm got BeOS, its still here. I didn`t want a Pegasos to run linux, so even if there was never another Official Morphos release would it really matter? Only a community can keep an OS alive, or maybe for updates the community should create service packs with new addtions that the OS needs. Sure everybody needs to pay thier bills, but when something like AROS comes along does it always have to be about money?

@ grandma

Yes, I am sure. Genesi is involved *a lot*, but it's still R.S. and F.M who are the owners.

Pull it together guys! damn! You should expect there to be money problems with a system like this. Probably the same thing going on in the A1 camp also.

$33k is alot of money. I would be freakin pissed off if someone owed me that much and didnt pay. I hope that bb&rv dont drop the people they owe money to and replace them. Pay them. I'm sure there is a big learning curve when it comes to coding MOS.

Hi MagicM, we have not dropped any one. It looks like they have dropped us... We have always explained to David and Stefan that if they were part of the future they would be paid, but that after everything that happened last year this would take time. People are still being paid. The ones that are *helping* are first. We have all the documentation and we will make it public at the right time if need be.

R&B

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People that start up their own companies are generally prepared to put in a lot of work into *their* creation, to make it take shape and grow to be something valuable in the future. This mean that they gladly will bend over backwards in order to make that happen, work long hours, be wage restraint from time to time, etc, etc. This is possible because they know that all the work and effort they put into the company, is accumulated there. If they work at christmas eve to make a project meet its deadline, or if they only take out half the paycheck one month, they know that they will benefit from it in the long run anyway.

Employees naturally have other priorities, and may not be interested in being as flexible as someone who is "working for themselves", for their own cause.

Here is a suggestion. Set up a new company, "MorphOS gmbh" or whatever. Genesi will own a part of it. The rest of the stock is divided between the code contributors according to their importance of their input (including MUI and Ambient). Either in shares or in options. One could include the value of any outstanding debts (there seems to be a disagreement about the validity of their contractual claims, but anyway) into these calculations in some way.

Then bring in a venture capitalist, or make an IPO at some market to bring in a big bag of money. MorphOS is a lot more ready than the products from lots of other IPO's anyway, so I definitely think it would be possible.

Then MorphOS will stand on its own legs, and Genesi can focus on hardware development but will still be connected to "MorphOS gmbh" through it's partial ownership, and all contributing developers will be working in a *true* team, for their own benefit.

What would be the problems with an approach like this?

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Okey, that can be nice too, I guess the MorphOS developers will be as closed to the community as before.

IMHO think more about earning some money, so we will have PegasosIII with QuadraG5, I think that can be worth a lot more than MOS, but I can be wrong too.

For christs sakes guys. Put a 50 eur pricetag for MOS 1.5, release, and get over with it. Share the money how you see fit.

It may not be what are owed but surely its better than now, which is close to zero dinero.

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As a coder (or any other "artist", doing creative work that is covered by copyright laws) you are of course the sole owner of your work. Copyright can actually never be transfered. What you *can* "transfer" is the [exclusive] right to use it. This is a common relationship between book authors and publishers, musical bands and record labels, software coders and software houses, etc. How these contracts are shaped varies a lot and is a result of negotiations. But when someone pays money for the development of something (which Genesi/Thendic France/Whoever obviously *has* done, at least in the past), it usually results in that these things can only be used by the one who paid for it. If a software firm pays some developers to develop a game, the coders usually has no right to go out and sell it themselves when its done, even though they are copyright holders of it. This is at least my understanding of copyright laws, etc.

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I suppose the big bag of money you mention. It's not going to fall from the sky ("Dude, see what hit me..." ;)

@ bbrv

I think it would be best to make a settlement with David and Stefan. Try hard! Even though there might be alternatives, both Ambient and MUI has come a long way, and it would probably mean a giant step backwards and much time lost to replace them.

BTW, what would the alternatives be? GTK and Scalos? Well, it would at least be easy to port the Firefox browser, like for SkyOS, but it would reduce Amiga compatibility.

Could perhaps a MUI->GTK wrapper of some kind be made?

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Haha!

Well, I didn't say it would be easy, but I think it could be done. Just figure out some tangible business proposition and off you go! Easy peasy!

The alternatives are Zune and Wanderer. But of course this would consume a lot of time. And I guess it would become more expensive in the end than to fullfill the balances.

Discuss the difficulties again and try to not brake too much glass - all involved ppl.

I would pay 50-60 Euro for MOS1.5, i have seen MOS1.5 on Axel Knabes Peg2 and what i have seen is 50-60 Euro worth for me!

TMHG

I said "owner" and I stand by that word, since Ralph is really a clever guy (i.e. he learened his part from the P5 experience). He doesn't give away his baby out of his control. I said Genesi is involved *a lot* but Ralph and Frank are the key. Without their okay MOS is going nowhere.

Bad to see that the situation had to escalate that much.
Seeing what MorphOS 1.4 has achieved so far, I hope
very much for all of Genesi and the MorphOS team,
that a solution still can be found.

IMHO, although I only have very limited insights,
Bill and Raquel have shipped Genesi very well through
the rough seas of recession and this small market.
After the cancelation of the big STB-order from
turkey I had feared the worst but other markets
could be found.

I think selling MorphOS to non-Pegasos-owners
is a valid propsal as it would create some revenue.
I would pay for a MOL-hosted version of MorphOS
and others too, if they could morph on their Apples.

MUI & Ambient are a must_have and can't be
replaced with any reasonable effort.
Seeing those limited ressource for MOS-development
possibly V could go Shareware like it was before?

Guys, please find an amicable settlement for your
differences, so that MorhOS can continue!

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OK. So do it. I mean, do the most to get David and Stefan back on board. I don't think MUI is something that can be abandoned, and, even though Ambient and Voyager both needed much work in their latest public version, they are not components that can be replaced in a finger snap. And Ambient is carrying quite a lot of promises...

Kind regards,
Andrea

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I see a list with 4 names. There sure are more MorphOS developers than that. Even if MorphOS itself wouldn't be updated any more, that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be ANY releases from those developers, who don't agree with those 4.

I guess some parts (like 3D support, input/output support (joysticks etc.), Poseidon, PowerSDL) could be developed much further even without any morphos updates.

Oh, and remember that this was a "worst case scenario"

I thought that most of the MorphOS developers were working part-time and had other jobs like the Hyperion team.