Time for change - MorphOS advertising ideas
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10657 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I believe that one of the moderators at AmigaWorld.net & Amiga.org
    > is a daily user who had not previously used or owned an Amiga.
    > He is, or was a programmer with IBM I believe.

    Actually, Eldee "eliyahu" Stephens is an IBM processor designer. And I believe he was never a moderator at amigaworld.net.
  • »22.09.19 - 22:14
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Georg
    Posts: 56 from 2004/4/7
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:

    Except it isn’t. As someone who actually authored a Windows app based on a MUI clone (same layout concepts, AskMinMax and co) I can tell you that this is a dead end. It’s not just the fact that you need something that plays nicely with 3D, you also do not want a MUI like layouter because of its performance. It’s quite hard to make window resizing smooth with the askminmax approach for example.


    Why? And don't basically all GUI toolkits (like QT, GTK) on other systems have something like AskMinMax as well? And also include MUI like layouters (maybe even more complex=slow)?
  • »23.09.19 - 06:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 176 from 2015/8/23
    Only two new users outside Amiga community.
    After teen years when MOS works on cheap powerfull hardware.
    Changes are really needed.

    AROS na x86 and LE ARM was shit because it has not memory protection and has not 68k apps compatybility.
    But!!! It means nothing, MOS x86 may be a success.
    Something like Amiga gui and graphics on top of unix still hava a chance.
  • »23.09.19 - 07:26
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1876 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Georg wrote:
    Why? And don't basically all GUI toolkits (like QT, GTK) on other systems have something like AskMinMax as well? And also include MUI like layouters (maybe even more complex=slow)?



    With Qt or Cocoa for instance, you don't generally have an AskMinMax/Layout approach. You set the positions/sizes/relations of objects and that's it. You don't have to worry about measuring text
    on every AskMinMax, because you don't need that info. In Qt or Cocoa you use a grid layout when you need a grid layout. With MUI you use a grid within a grid within a grid within... That's a lot of pointless AskMinMax & Layout calls and recalculations.

    Also keep in mind that MUI doesn't have any support for RTL scripts, etc. These would add an even bigger performance strain on the layouter. The only way around it would be aggressive caching and changing the way text is handled. See the Core Text Programming Guide, this is a good reference to how complex this really is. MUI's text capabilities are laughable in comparison.

    While caching would most likely break many apps' custom classes and layout hacks, you can't really replace the text engine without completely breaking MUI.

    Another breaking change you'd have to do to modernize MUI would be moving away from pixels in order to become DPI oriented. Also required if you wanted it to become a contemporary UI toolkit.

    MUI also lacks support for efficient scrolling of grid-layouted content. Sure, it's possible, just a lot of pain to deal with. Try to implement an infinite scrolling grid showing, say, Google image search results, with progressive downloading and decoding of images in the background as you scroll. Let me know how long it took ;)
  • »23.09.19 - 10:52
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 518 from 2011/11/30
    @amigadave

    Just saw your response (a couple of pages ago) :P Check this thread. In case you use a google translator, it starts with a typical QA about MorphOS. You can skip the occasional trolling in between images :) There are also some OS4 grabs near the end of the thread. Images used to have explanatory text but they had to be re-uploaded after a former amiga forum went down and I wasn't in the mood :P However, an experienced amiga/morphos user can understand what's going on and how to present and/or compare it with other available solutions. Btw, newer version of default MorphOS grabber can be used to take grabs with Dragon enabled (featuring multiple/split screens), should one use the delay function on the sbar.
    As I have stated, some grabs have the wow factor (PS1 emulation plus SoundBankster on 3D cube while using them through VPNviewer from an Android phone or dual screens for e-uae games etc), still result didn't went well. Video presentations can reach far greater audience. Kudos to jPV for letting me access on a huge software library <3
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »23.09.19 - 12:56
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1938 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Samurai_Crow wrote:
    Re:naysayers/outdated architecture

    QBox was going to be a compatibility breaking release.


    Problem with threads like this is that lot of different topics are mixed together.....

    - Could the MorphOS-team build a "good" modern OS ?
    A clear yes.

    - Is the MorphOS-team motivated enough to pull it of (in a timely fashion)?
    Just check how long ago it was that Fab made that presentation at Alchemi....

    - Would such an OS still be MorphOS in the sense of being Amiga related?
    In a lot of ways that sounds like squaring a circle .... mmm, or is it boxing a ball


    In order to attract new users/developers to such an OS it would need to be compatible enough to mainstream *nix to make porting apps feasible, while still being different enough to attract specific apps to be written (OSX sits in that sweet spot).

    There is ofcourse no point in advocating that OS right now when might still be years in the future (if it ever gets done) and there is even less point in trying to make current MorphOS look like something that it just isn't.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »23.09.19 - 13:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 176 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Just check how long ago it was that Fab made that presentation at Alchemi....



    As far as I remember it was in 2011, or maybe 2013?

    Quote:

    In order to attract new users/developers to such an OS it would need to be compatible enough to mainstream *nix to make porting apps feasible, while still being different enough to attract specific apps to be written (OSX sits in that sweet spot).



    Which means amiga gui and graphics on top of unix. Rest of system is too outdated.
  • »23.09.19 - 15:42
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Georg
    Posts: 56 from 2004/4/7
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    You don't have to worry about measuring text on every AskMinMax,


    Seems in AROS/Zune there's typically no AskMinMax at all during window resizing (except likely with things like auto hiding scrollbars in listview when sizing causes transfer from no-scrollbar-needed-state to scrollbar-needed-state). So even if AskMinMax time was 100x times slower one would not really notice. Does this differ from MUI?
  • »24.09.19 - 06:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 176 from 2015/8/23
    MUI is the only piece of MOS that is worth use after change to x86 or ARM.
    Even if it need some optimisation. And add new layout class.
  • »24.09.19 - 16:25
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 518 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    So no Reggae and my scanner drivers :(
  • »24.09.19 - 19:10
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1938 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    So no Reggae and my scanner drivers :(


    If that means we also have to take you



    No
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »24.09.19 - 19:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2643 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    So no Reggae and my scanner drivers :(


    Don't listen to any of this nonsense zukow. I trust the MorphOS Dev. Team members to come up with a brilliant OS design on x64. The only worry I have is how to get software ported to it quickly, so that we have a good amount to run, on day one of it's release. I'm also sure that the Dev. Team is thinking of software availability, and how to transition as many of the existing MorphOS users, as well as attract new users, to their new OS on x64, when it is ready to release.

    In the meantime, can we please get back "On Topic"! Doesn't anyone else have ideas about promoting MorphOS 3.11 (and hopefully soon 3.12) to new users? Doesn't anyone have any interest in helping create, or finding non copyrighted images, music, and videos to use in promotional efforts in the immediate future?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »25.09.19 - 03:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 518 from 2011/11/30
    Speaking of YT videos, there is a new video from Ravi Abbot, that reached around 45k viewers within just 2 months. I 've briefly saw some parts and as usual it's an unexpanded MorphOS installation with Chrysalis pack on top that lacks a showoff from major 68k apps and other cool thingies you can do with native PPC software. Better than nothing though..

    [ Edited by Cool_amigaN 25.09.2019 - 10:55 ]
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »25.09.19 - 07:53
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1918 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    zukow schrieb:
    So no Reggae and my scanner drivers :(


    You're out! Who needs scanner drivers or this evil Reggae thingie when we can have MUI ;-)

    Remember this is mutual exclusive: black or white! Condemnation or redemption. MUI or nothing! Listen to the master's voice that has spoken a few posts above!

    Hail Unix with MUI!

    OMG!
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »25.09.19 - 07:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 176 from 2015/8/23
    I don't remember when I last use scaner software.
    Maybe ten years ago, maybe more.
    Today even cheapest one have option to scan to mail, to sd card or has web interface.
    So, it will be nice to have scandal, but if it will not work on unix, I may live without it.
  • »26.09.19 - 18:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 294 from 2013/5/29
    If Morphos becomes an unix bitch please, let me go out from here.
    PowerMac G5 - PowerBook G4 - MacMini with MorphOS. Amiga 1200/060 AmigaOS 3.x
  • »26.09.19 - 19:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2643 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    Speaking of YT videos, there is a new video from Ravi Abbot, that reached around 45k viewers within just 2 months. I 've briefly saw some parts and as usual it's an unexpanded MorphOS installation with Chrysalis pack on top that lacks a showoff from major 68k apps and other cool thingies you can do with native PPC software. Better than nothing though..


    Thanks for the link to the video. It is way too long, and I'm not interested in trying to educate anyone about the history of the Amiga, or even how MorphOS got its start. My videos will be short and cover specific parts of the OS, or specific software available to run on MorphOS, or I might do a quick video that covers several basic differences that I see as advantages, what MorphOS has, and IMO, are lacking on other OSes. I'm open to creating videos with other ideas, if anyone wants to share their ideas for video content.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »29.09.19 - 12:54
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4860 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    If Morphos becomes an unix bitch please, let me go out from here.


    Ditto, no UNIX or Linux, PLEASE!

    And as to "only" two outsiders joining the community, there have probably been more. I'm one.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.09.19 - 11:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10657 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > as to "only" two outsiders joining the community,
    > there have probably been more. I'm one.

    You were named as one of those two in comment #74 ;-)
  • »30.09.19 - 12:23
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1938 from 2003/2/24
    But he has atleast 4 personalities........
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »30.09.19 - 17:07
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 76 from 2009/5/6
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    If Morphos becomes an unix bitch please, let me go out from here.


    Ditto, no UNIX or Linux, PLEASE!

    And as to "only" two outsiders joining the community, there have probably been more. I'm one.


    And I will third this statement...
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »30.09.19 - 17:35
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 493 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    Quote:

    Unix with Amiga GUI! API=ABI! PPC haters! Everything I don't like is cr*p and sh*t!

    Shouts a lone man from the top of his antheap :)
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »01.10.19 - 09:13
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  • Just looking around
    Chicago-Joe
    Posts: 6 from 2018/7/25
    From: Chicago, IL USA
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    If Morphos becomes an unix bitch please, let me go out from here.


    Ditto, no UNIX or Linux, PLEASE!

    And as to "only" two outsiders joining the community, there have probably been more. I'm one.


    And I will third this statement...



    You will have to add one more, I found MorphOS by accident looking to replace Yellow Dog on my G4 Mac Mini, I consider it a good decision.

    Joe
  • »02.10.19 - 00:49
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 176 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    BSzili wrote:
    usual crap



    It is very simple.
    First thing that should be done after breaking compatibility with Amiga 68k software, should be adding memory protection.
    AROS x86 is not binary compatible with Amiga 68k software and has not memory protection - AROS x86 is worth nothing shit.
  • »02.10.19 - 19:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10657 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > First thing that should be done after breaking compatibility with Amiga 68k software,
    > should be adding memory protection.

    I think memory protection should be added first, causing the break of Amiga m68k compatibility as kind of collateral damage.
  • »02.10.19 - 23:09
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