Quote:

Criminal charges? No, that would not be the case in the US. Wiktor has only collected money for a bounty. What would be important are the terms.
It doesn't even sound like all the donations have been tracked or recorded.

And if a return is offered and it's not requested within a reasonable time frame...
What's Pampers supposed to do? Hold on to the funds indefinately? The same with Papi.

Weird, Europeans think it's odd that US courts still want Roman Polanski, but you're saying that paying on an incomplete contract will get someone arrested.
No sir, maybe in Europe, but not here.

[ Edited by Jim 27.04.2018 - 13:13 ]

> Wiktor has only collected money for a bounty. What would be important
> are the terms.

Indeed, see his comment #52.

> It doesn't even sound like all the donations have been tracked or recorded.

Quite to the contrary, as told in comment #30, see the 2nd link in posting #1 of this thread.

> you're saying that paying on an incomplete contract [...]

...with someone else‘s money without all the money owners‘ explicit consent...

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Didn't Bernie Madoff take peoples money under terms of a contract then do something completely different with the money?

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Apples and Oranges comparison, Madoff appropriated the funds.

Wiktor isn't planning on that, he's just offered to turn it over to a third party, and the third party has discussed the option of paying the bounty out even though the goal wasn't met (after a period of consideration for those that want a refund).

I have no idea what bizarre laws you and Andreas live under, or if either of you have ever studied legal issues, but you both sound paranoid.
This isn't a business endeavor, it involves no established business entities, its a fund raising effort for a piece of software that would have been incorporated into something else and distributed for free.

Wiktor isn't a executive, or an officer of a bank or a financial institution, he's just individual.

At this point, if I were him, I'd make an attempt to contact the donors via their contact information to ask if they wanted a refund and after a reasonable period what ever part of it wasn't claimed I'd bank.

That way its accessible in the event some form of chaos occurs.

After all, wouldn't want Interpol knocking at his door one day.

Sorry Pampers, Papi...this is just off the rails.

Wiktor is the "Bernie Madoff" of the Amiga World, jeez titles like that were taken long ago.

Nik, Andreas...you two sound like children discussing the boogie man when you bring up legal issues.

[ Edited by Jim 27.04.2018 - 23:46 ]

Quote:

We live in civilised countries, as does Wiktor.

Scale might be different to Madoff but it's the same principle, so as he said himself, he took the money under a contract and isn't going to give the money to Mark because that would be a breach of the contract.

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Sound reasonable, Wiktor.
Sorry for all the complications resulting from you trying to do a good deed.

Your resolution seems like the only realistic course.
You haven't stated what you intend to do with the funds that remain should you not be able to contact everyone, but unlike some postings here I'd never insinuate that you'd do anything untoward with it.

I have a good idea of who I can trust, and after dealing with you for a few years, I trust you and your judgement completely.

Quote:

Melodramatic...yep, that about sums it up.
For once I'm not even addressing Andreas' response, the insinuation that he made that my comment was directed at anyone other than him and Nicholas is beneath him.

Honestly, is anyone here foolish enough to think that a simple bounty project for a hobbyist project would result in complications with the legal system?
We have more lawyers per capita in the United States than any other country in the world, and we have a very litigious society, and still..something like this would leave those in our legal system shaking their heads or outright laughing.

The only real lesson here appears to be to leave bounty programs to people or organizations with experience (like Papi) and a clearly stated policy.

[ Edited by Jim 28.04.2018 - 19:41 ]

>>> Andreas [...] you [...] sound paranoid. [...] Andreas...you [...]
>>> sound like children discussing the boogie man

>> I just said that there’s a difference between paying on an incomplete contract
>> with your own money versus doing so with someone else‘s money without all
>> the money owners‘ explicit consent. Do you think pampers sounds paranoid
>> and like a child as well just because he is against paying on an incomplete
>> contract with other people‘s money? I for one can understand his reasoning.

> I'm not even addressing Andreas' response, the insinuation that he made that
> my comment was directed at anyone other than him and Nicholas is beneath him.

I made no such insinuations, quite to the contrary. Calling me sounding paranoid and like a child for voicing the same opinion as pampers and being understanding of his reservations to follow your and others‘ advice is below your usual standard.

Post removed in its entirety as the tangent it went on became too personal.

Jim

[ Edited by Jim 29.04.2018 - 12:24 ]

Andreas,

Lumping you in with Nickolas was unfair. Can I retract only part of a statement?
I do gather that you place far more importance on the propriety inherent in the situation than I do.

As to whether you voice the "same" opinion as Wiktor, perhaps through the lens you view circumstances that's correct.

The only impression I got from Pampers post was that he was uncomfortable continuing to hold on to funds for a bounty with an unknown future, after he had decided to leave the community.

So... I guess the comment about "childish" behavior was unfair at least to you, as the only things I've ever been really been able to fault you on is a fixation with precision to an at least sigma six level and a certain petulance in the tone of your responses.

Nik, as to your comment about my country, yeah we don't spend excess time ruminating over minor legal points when it delays effective resolutions.
Better to leave that to our OCD prone friends in countries with a more convoluted history.

Again, I'd just turn the bounty over to Papi, or turn the finds over to Mark directly. Screw the consequences because they aren't particularly significant, and Luke this prolonged discusions, worrying about it is a waste of time.

But Wikror has made his initial decision, it makes sense, so why don't we just STFU about it?



[ Edited by Jim 29.04.2018 - 12:33 ]

Jim, your opinions on EU regulations are irrelevant.

You can spout them all you like, still makes no difference.

RE: Your comment about "legal system experience", ROFLMAO.

If you ever want mates rates on training just let me know. 20% discount for you.

JavaScript is probably the worst language that has ever existed or ever will exist in the totality of spacetime. In an interpreter, it's a slow trickle of effluent they you can carefully monitor at all times for suspicious lumps. Compiling it native transforms that into an unchecked open sewer. It was the worst thing that happened to it. Thanks to new found adequate speed and a generation of snowflake coders who have no understanding of underlying systems, it found it's way onto production servers thanks to node. There's a huge corpus of hipster devs that share a delusion that a language that is so loosely typed it has no actual integer type is somehow a good thing. It is, quite literally an abomination.

You do not want native code from JS running on a machine with no memory protection.

Quote:

Hardly, unlike most of you I'm an business executive, I have a BS in Business Management and I am pursuing an MBA. Its likely at some point that I'll have earned my doctorate.

And, btw,ALL business is global.
Your comment about "civilized" countries offends me Nik.

And as far as the legal system, unlike many of you, I have past educational experience with legal issues, I had worked with lawyers (and btw have quite a bit of respect for them), and I have worked for companies that keep lawyers on retainer, also my own personal lawyer is one the the most highly regarded in my state.

What IS laughable are the statements made by uninformed laymen that view the legal system with such trepidation. It really ISN'T that scary, and it exist to protect your interests as well as the interests of others.

Oh, and to "match" educational levels with any of you...I had 180 credits at the University of Delaware (that did not include credit for course they considered duplicates, or the 9 credits at Delaware State University, or the course work I did for several certificates), BEFORE I completed to 60 credits necessary to earn my BS in Business Management.
I've earned quite a few more at the graduate level since then studying for the MBA.

I'm also a trained Sou Chef, and I've held past licensed certifications by the US Merchant Marine.

Discounting formal education, I did work study during High School with Dr. Fred Hoffstter at the University of Delaware working on touch screen based Plato networked computers that were tied to an early version of the internet in the late '70's.

I'm self taught in the fields of electronics, computer science and programming, managed a company that built 68K computers from the '80s to the early '90s (that used a BETTER operating system than Amiga OS in my opinion), and contributed to both the hardware and software designs of our later machines.

SO, I am here because I deeply respect the abilities of the core developers of MorphOS (who are definitely smarter, and more accomplished software designers than myself) and because I believe MorphOS is a remarkable operating system.
And I couldn't care fuck less about Amiga OS.

None of this is hubris, I've worked pretty damned hard, and if you think you can match that, produce YOUR curriculum vitae.

I'm not laughing here myself, I'm dismayed at one of my friend's inability to admit that his reaction was overblown and that instead he'd rather attack me than address the issue.




[ Edited by Jim 29.04.2018 - 14:37 ]

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Thanks Karlos, I think I mentioned I'd rather forgo Java entire myself awhile ago.
It is a sorry product.

Quote:

;)

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Just to be clear, I'm talking about JavaScript here. Java is a whole different kettle of fish but is a reasonable compiled language with a pretty solid implementation.

JavaScript is fine as a tool to enhance UX on web applications. The horror began when it became the web application. Then before you know it, the insanity spread to the servers too. Monstrous orgies of anonymous closures and event triggers running on top of huge unvetted assemblies installed by node package manager. And all this in a language whose non-transitive comparisons and implicit type conversions make php look good. And trust me, it isn't. JavaScript is single handedly destroying software engineering as a discipline as it spreads it's way like a cancer, out of the sandboxed interpreter in your browser to infrastructure. Once you have v8 or similar, node will be poeted and the floodgate for the unstoppable tsunami of s****e will e opened and your beautiful resource efficient OS will be drowned beneath it as people start writing applications and heaven forbid, system components out of it.

Quote:

"My penis is massive and I'm really rich" eh?

Your country disgusts me and most other civilized people but that's for another thread.

We have laws and we abide by them Jim. Unlike you I understand GDPR because I am CTO of a company that provides training to GDPR consultants.

Go have another drink and calm down.

>>>> I just said that there’s a difference between paying on an incomplete
>>>> contract with your own money versus doing so with someone else‘s
>>>> money without all the money owners‘ explicit consent. Do you think
>>>> pampers sounds paranoid and like a child as well just because he is
>>>> against paying on an incomplete contract with other people‘s money?
>>>> I for one can understand his reasoning.

>>> I'm not even addressing Andreas' response, the insinuation that he
>>> made that my comment was directed at anyone other than him and
>>> Nicholas is beneath him.

>> I made no such insinuations, quite to the contrary. Calling me sounding
>> paranoid and like a child for voicing the same opinion as pampers and
>> being understanding of his reservations to follow your and others‘ advice
>> is below your usual standard.

> As to whether you voice the "same" opinion as Wiktor, perhaps through
> the lens you view circumstances that's correct. The only impression I got
> from Pampers post was that he was uncomfortable continuing to hold on
> to funds for a bounty with an unknown future, after he had decided to leave
> the community.

If that's the only impression you "got from Pampers post", you really should read his comments beyond #27, especially #52, #57 and #59. If these are not saying that he'd feel uncomfortable paying on an incomplete contract with someone else‘s money without all the money owners‘ explicit consent I don't know what would be. And I don't need any lens except my eye lenses for this, neither should you.

> I'm talking about JavaScript here. Java is a whole different kettle of fish

I'd deem the chances he'll get it this time rather slim ;-)

Quote:

No Nik, glad to see your sense of humor is intact, because after posting that I was worried I'd pissed off an old friend.

Actually, my penis is about average (read adequate at 7" when erect) and thanks to massive educational spending and loans I'm quite poor.
As far as my country, that IS for another thread, since our entire legal system was lifted...oh yeah, from the country you live in.
And trust me, a large part of the world regards the British with equal disdain.

Oh, and I STILL have more education than you.

Beyond that, I work with multi-nationals from several locations.
"Great" Britain we tend to ignore, since useful products or vital services no longer seems to originate from that country, other parts of the Commonwealth...like Canada (and many other countries), hey, great trading partners.
Come to think of it, we probably have a significantly better trading relationship with Canada, Mexico, Germany,and lots of other countries including China (our biggest trading partner).

So while your country decides to exclude itself from the Union, do many of your countrymen realize just how irrelevant the core/founding nation of the commonwealth really is in the modern world?

BTW - What does ANY of this have to do with Wiktor's issue (which he seems to have resolved himself)?
Andre really ought to lock this thread as its gotten stupid and overtly melodramatic.
And I can't absolve myself from partial responsibility for this, but then I usual ignore attacks from strangers, its those from my friends I feel obligated to address.

BTW - To all, just visit the US, don't mistake the actions of our captains of industry or our politicians as a representation of its people. Like Europe, this is a very cool place.
And unlike almost any other country, we have a multiplicity of cultures.

Oh, and I rarely drink anymore, never smoked, don't do drugs, and I'm not a womanizer.
So my only real vices are that I'm not a reserved, polite person, and I'm too opinionated.

[ Edited by Jim 29.04.2018 - 21:39 ]

@Jim

There's nothing whatsoever great about Great Britain under it's current government. They're self serving scum that, after soliciting a brexit mandate (when technically they already had one from one of the most divisive referendums ever) lost their majority and cozied up with a bunch of former terrorists (the DUP) just to be able to keep in power. Just after the brexit vote, you only had to watch the absolute knife-in-the-back leadership transition when Cameron resigned to see what a bunch of grabbing sleazeballs they were and that's within their own party.

They've instigated the worst kinds of discriminatory policies that have seen citizens of the commonwealth that have lived here since being invited after WW2 being singled out not having "ze right papers!", denied healthcare, employment and the right to remain.

Oh, and they probably like JavaScript too. No doubt it makes mass surveillance easier :)

[ Edited by Karlos 30.04.2018 - 07:36 ]

Quote:
Have you ever heard of ARexx?
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You do not want to run ANY code on a machine with no memory protection. Or are you happy with one bug in any MOrphOS program, e.g. in OWB or Ambient or whichever, crashing the program and crashing other programs with them or stopping all your machine to work such that you have to push the reset button right in the middle of your work?

Once you have a JIT JS implementation, node and npm will follow. And before you know it, tools will be written that pull in a ton of npm dependencies you never wanted many of which are inherently unsafe ans some of which are all but guaranteed to be malicious.

At leas Arexx doesn't pull down half the internet on to your machine to show pretty colours in the console.

At least interpreted and sandboxed you can keep JS in check on your system. Once you start compiling it into native code that protection is quickly eroded. Ans let's face it, Amiga like OS have no other layers of protection beyond obscurity.

[ Edited by Karlos 30.04.2018 - 10:24 ]

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Pretty Macs need Node and Starbucks or they die from neglect. ;)

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No sh!t, in other news water is wet. The UK is a disgusting country too.

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Nope, I finished my Post-Grad studies in 2005 and you know the best thing about being board level exec at a training company? You get to do all the courses you fancy for free. ;)

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Your point is?

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Absolutely nada, but like usual you make every thread about "I" Jim.

You don't know about our legal system, that's fine most people here don't know about the new regulation either (which is good for my wallet), but when when people with knowledge of a subject speak (any subject) you should listen in order to learn.

Both Andreas and myself are concerned that Wiktor could find himself on the wrong side of the law. In my case it's professional concern, I can't speak for Andreas but he's far from stupid and clearly knows more about the law as it stands than you do.

Skin up some of that newly legal weed you have over there and relax Amsterdam style. :)

Definitely NSFW or with children around: https://youtu.be/eUfxkuC8b2o