Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10540 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > AmigaOS 3.1 or any other version of AmigaOS (except 4) is not mentioned in the whole settlement.

    AmigaOS 3.1 is mentioned 3 times in the settlement agreement:

    #1: ""Software" means Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994."

    #2: "Right to develop and distribute Amiga OS 3.9 upgrade of Amiga OS 3.5 (itself an upgrade of OS 3.1). Amiga considers this agreement terminated, but Haage & Partner may not."

    (This even has a mention of AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9.)

    #3: "ITEC LLC assigns its full interest under the identified financing statement to the software known as Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994."

    See comment #811 for a quote of the mention of "AmigaOS 5".

    > AmigaOS 4 Classic [...] precipitated the lawsuit

    AmigaOS 4.0 Classic was released 7 months after the begin of the lawsuit.
  • »12.04.19 - 20:39
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 118 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    AmigaOS 4.0 Classic was released 7 months after the begin of the lawsuit.



    The Classic version would have also been within the remit of the 2001 contract and I think the non-delivery of it may have even formed part of Amiga Inc's complaint or amended complaint. I remember that when OS4 Classic was released or was close to release, Ben H, I think, said that it had received a priority bump. There was certainly speculation at the time that it only got released to show that they were meeting one of their contractual obligations.

    I think what really irked Bill M was that a third part had initiated and was funding a port to Mac Mini with no prior discussion and agreement between between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Maybe that's what Kenny was thinking of. All our memories get a bit hazy 10+ years after the fact.
  • »14.04.19 - 17:34
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 353 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    AmigaOS 4.0 Classic was released 7 months after the begin of the lawsuit.



    The Classic version would have also been within the remit of the 2001 contract and I think the non-delivery of it may have even formed part of Amiga Inc's complaint or amended complaint. I remember that when OS4 Classic was released or was close to release, Ben H, I think, said that it had received a priority bump. There was certainly speculation at the time that it only got released to show that they were meeting one of their contractual obligations.

    I think what really irked Bill M was that a third part had initiated and was funding a port to Mac Mini with no prior discussion and agreement between between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Maybe that's what Kenny was thinking of. All our memories get a bit hazy 10+ years after the fact.


    You have a good memory. You are correct on both accounts. One slight correction...

    it was HJF who made the statement
    The document detailing the conversation between Nicola Morocutti (for Acube) and Bill is part of the Amiga Documents documentation section.
    Source

    #6
  • »14.04.19 - 18:06
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4856 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > AmigaOS 3.1 or any other version of AmigaOS (except 4) is not mentioned in the whole settlement.

    AmigaOS 3.1 is mentioned 3 times in the settlement agreement:

    #1: ""Software" means Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994."

    #2: "Right to develop and distribute Amiga OS 3.9 upgrade of Amiga OS 3.5 (itself an upgrade of OS 3.1). Amiga considers this agreement terminated, but Haage & Partner may not."

    (This even has a mention of AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9.)

    #3: "ITEC LLC assigns its full interest under the identified financing statement to the software known as Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994."

    See comment #811 for a quote of the mention of "AmigaOS 5".

    > AmigaOS 4 Classic [...] precipitated the lawsuit

    AmigaOS 4.0 Classic was released 7 months after the begin of the lawsuit.


    Good quote Andreas,
    I was fairly sure that that was the the definition of "the software".
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.04.19 - 20:33
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10540 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The Classic version would have also been within the remit of the 2001
    > contract and I think the non-delivery of it may have even formed part
    > of Amiga Inc's complaint or amended complaint. [...] There was certainly
    > speculation at the time that it only got released to show that they were
    > meeting one of their contractual obligations.

    Thanks for your input. I didn't object to this particular statement of KennyR ("AmigaOS 4 Classic (which Amiga Inc said was illegal)") because I took it to refer to the fact that AmigaOS 4.0 Classic was released after Amiga Inc. had terminated Hyperion's license in December 2006, so it'd make sense that Amiga Inc. deemed every OS4 release since then illegal. After this termination, it took Amiga Inc. 4 months to start the actual lawsuit.
  • »14.04.19 - 20:50
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10540 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> Trevor probably has no financial stake in any Hyperion shares

    > This is what Trevor wrote in August 2017: [...]
    > Whether or not Trevor attending a Hyperion shareholder meeting in June 2017
    > would indicate him being a Hyperion shareholder in 2017 I don't know.

    "Although I am a very minor shareholder, I can't talk for Hyperion Entertainment [...]. [...] I am a small shareholder in Hyperion"
    https://www.exec.pl/article.jsp?nid=189&Amiga_present_and_future:_interview_with_Trevor_Dickinson
  • »20.04.19 - 21:43
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 353 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    ORDER denying Plaintiffs'67 Motion for Partial Reconsideration.

    Basically C-A Acquisitions Corporation still refused to be enjoined as party to the lawsuit.
    Plus some mentions about delays in scheduling.

    Quote:

    depositions needed to be rescheduled to accommodate medical
    and family issues; and discovery deadlines were extended.

    Also interesting to note this comment which obviously refers to the Kouri estate:
    Quote:

    Plaintiffs blame the delay in acquiring the rights on the law firm of Reed Smith, which was acting on behalf of the largest shareholders in Amiga, Inc., the seller.

    And this acknowledgement about Amiga websites:
    Quote:

    Amiga’s intellectual property assets would have been promptly reported on the various Amiga-related news sites that have been following this case, thereby running the certain risk of inviting other bidders

    #6
  • »26.04.19 - 14:50
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 353 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    Way back in March before Stephen had his accident (slipped disk) and shortly thereafter getting a bad case of the flu, an interview with Cloanto was mentioned. This is now available.

    Mike Battilana Interview 2019

    Conveniently listed are all the questions and a time stamp, in case you wish to limit your listening.
    Otherwise, in full, the interview runs over 2 hours.

    #6
  • »02.05.19 - 19:44
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    -deleted-
    Somehow missed the post right above this.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 02.05.2019 - 20:00 ]
  • »03.05.19 - 00:58
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 664 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    I've been through parts of the MikeB interview several times now and I'm afraid I've got nothing beyond what we already know.
  • »03.05.19 - 13:36
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2603 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    If all the litigation surrounding the Amiga IP, trademarks, and copyrights that Hyperion Entertainment is involved in ends up being ruled in their favor, the only other way I can see the users of "Amiga" OS of any version "winning", would be for the NG users to switch to MorphOS, and/or AROS, AEROS, etc., and the 68k users to use AROS 68k on their Classic machines and FPGA clones. Unless the users wish to have unethical lawyers and business people continue to make promises they can't possibly keep, trick developers into signing bad contracts, that the developers thought were NDA agreements, and just not paying other developers for their time and hard work.

    Am I liable for any new litigation from the lawyer who has no clue on how to develop an "OS", if I suggest that everyone "Boycott" Hyperion Entertainment? If the users simply STOP buying anything from, or supporting in any other way, Hyperion Entertainment, they will eventually either abandon the Amiga market, or sell what ever rights they end up with through this litigation, and go away to litigate some other community, or individual.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.05.19 - 15:56
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1889 from 2003/2/24
    @KennyR

    Could you please refer to him with something else then "MikeB"? Might confuse the faint at heart...

    @amigadave

    Don't worry, your cease&desist is already in the mail.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »03.05.19 - 16:47
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 664 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    The problem with supporting Hyperion isn't just that they're crooks, but that they (and by they I mean Ben Hermans) have no interest in the future of the community. Ben boi was happy to screw over anyone who naively tried to help him before he went in debt, and now he's in debt everything he touches will be cynically bled dry.

    A retro community led by Hyperion (and possibly Hyperion itself) would exist only as long as Ben had paid off a sufficient quantity of his debt, then thrown to the wolves. All the hard work and love put it into it would be torn apart and wasted, much like it was with OS4.
  • »03.05.19 - 21:39
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10540 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > [...] as long as Ben had paid off a sufficient quantity of his debt

    Maybe it would be enough for eliminating Hyperion's debt if Ben Hermans relinquishes the money he says he is owed by Hyperion ;-)
  • »04.05.19 - 10:58
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 118 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    I've been through parts of the MikeB interview several times now and I'm afraid I've got nothing beyond what we already know.




    I must admit that I didn't know about his volunteering for St John Ambulance.
  • »04.05.19 - 17:19
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 664 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Ben can't possibly complain as he seems to have forced this by preventing CA_AC to be joined to the existing lawsuit. I can only think this must be intentional as surely a lawyer couldn't be so incompetent. What did he expect, for it to mysteriously go away?
  • »13.05.19 - 18:26
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 664 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Filed on May 16, 2019

    Quote:

    ORDER granting in part and denying in part Defendant Hyperion Entertainment CVBA's52 Motion to Dismiss in Part.


    source document now available

    Some interesting insights.

    #6


    The way I'm reading this, looks to me like the court agrees with Hyperion's claim about the settlement, and everything would now be over if they hadn't gone completely over the line with Manomio.
  • »19.05.19 - 15:05
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    The way I'm reading this, looks to me like the court agrees with Hyperion's claim about the settlement


    If I'm reading it right, they are siding with HYPE to a point simply because it is Cloanto bringing the suit and not McBill's Amiga Inc company(s).

    It would be pretty bad if HYPE wins this because of McBill's Amiga is a corpse.
  • »20.05.19 - 17:29
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4856 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Went pretty much as expected.

    Did you guys really that Mike's lawsuit could reverse a prior licensesing agreement?

    Now, does Bill have the right to sell OS 3.1.4?

    Because frankly, it doesn't seem like a bad product.
    Certainly holds more interest for me than OS4?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.05.19 - 18:07
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1339 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Did you guys really that Mike's lawsuit could reverse a prior licensesing agreement?


    Hyperion being in violation of the Settlement Agreement which only covers OS4.x? Yes. 3.1.4 looks like a pirate product, not licensed.

    Quote:

    Now, does Bill have the right to sell OS 3.1.4?

    Because frankly, it doesn't seem like a bad product.
    Certainly holds more interest for me than OS4?


    That's the main point here. *IF* you mean OS4, if Hyperion were found in violation of the Settlement Agreement, it could be rendered null and void. However, the judge seems to be dismissing issues raised about the settlement agreement since the suit is coming from Cloanto and not McBill's Amiga company(s). Sounds like the judge is claiming Cloanto is not party to the settlement agreement.

    People who actually think HYPE had the right to sell a 3.1.4 are very few and far between. Most who do support it only support it due to logic like "Who cares the legality, it is old!".

    [ Edited by redrumloa 20.05.2019 - 13:50 ]
  • »20.05.19 - 18:44
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10540 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > does Bill have the right to sell OS 3.1.4?

    I don't think he'd want to. And even if, this would require the 3.1.4 authors to re-licensed their code. Furthermore, 3.1.4 contains older OS4 source code Hyperion has an exclusive license to (hence the 3.1.4 authors' statement that there was no other choice than having it published by Hyperion).
  • »20.05.19 - 18:54
    Profile