Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 108 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers

    German link only atm, but letter is in english.

    English version

    #6


    That's rich. Thor is worried about "goodwill and the passion" of the Amiga Kommunity now? Would this be the same Thor behind the pirate MUI branch?

    :smh:


    I believe you are confusing Thore Böckelmann with Thomas Richter (Thor)

    #6
  • »31.12.17 - 21:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1125 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:

    I believe you are confusing Thore Böckelmann with Thomas Richter (Thor)

    #6



    Whoops! Thank you for the correction.
  • »31.12.17 - 22:06
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1839 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    KennyR schrieb:

    Hyperion - and the centrepoint Ben Hermans - have been in and out of Amiga news since the late 90s. They sued Titan Computer because they didn't think they tried hard enough to market their games, and seem to have fallen out with Haage&Partner for a similar reason. They spent enormous time trying to convince people that Phase5/bPlan were putting logic bombs in their firmware and even longer spreading FUD about the legality of MorphOS... only to never sue it, because they knew it was a lie. They walked into the original agreement with Amiga Inc believing that that AInc would just go bankrupt and they'd walk with the Amiga name, only yo be held onto a settlement because Kouri died, and action that basically killed OS4. They have ex-partners who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. And current partners who would seriously consider not pissing on them if they were on fire.

    Hyperion are absolute cancer. If they came out and claimed the world was round, I'd be seriously reconsidering the flat-earther arguments.



    I apprecaite that you keep the history in the focus. I've followed all this crap myself over the years and don't forget the history, too. And I wouldn't trust BH in the slightest way. then again, who actually really cares any longer about Amiga, Hyperion etc.? Let them hit their skulls with their axes but we (on the MorphOS side), just go on - it's affecting us only very remotely.

    One of the best things of MorphOS is that it left the name and all that crap behind.

    But it's indeed a good soap opera to shorten teh waiting time for 2018 and 3.10 or #?. More popcorn please!
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »31.12.17 - 22:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2489 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the ”settlement” is between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, concerning IP that *none*
    > of these companies own, be it the copyrights or trademarks. Cloanto owns it all.

    The settlement agreement is also concerning OS4, which Cloanto certainly does not own all of.


    OS4 is forever intertwined with 3.1 sources. The “Boing Ball Branch” written by Olsen based on the “Checkmark Branch” sources owned by Cloanto. It can never be separated. OS4 does not exist without the Cloanto IP. The Cloanto IP however, does exist without OS4.



    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 01.01.2018 - 03:43 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »01.01.18 - 02:15
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4526 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Both of these nimrods better get there act together.
    Both are licensees of a a product that may not have been legitimately owned by AInc.
    BUT, Hyperion does appear to have a valid license to develop from OS3.1 source from AInc., AND Cloanto's license (most recent reaffirmed by AInc) gives them the right to distribute legacy versions of Amiga OS (even if it does NOT appear to confer ownership).
    AND even if it did, Hyperion's settlement would pre-date the larte agreement.

    Remember, Hyperion's settlement grants them the SOLE right to develop from OS3.1 source.

    Cloanto may distribute legacy Amiga OS versions, it may have even acquired the right to the Amiga trademark, but their position in relation to owning the actual code or having the right to modify it is tenuous at best.

    It would be in Cloanto's best interest to cone to a settlement with Hyperion on the use of the Amiga OS name and Hyperion's continuing right to distribute the OS it has been working on for over a decade.

    Otherwise, this could de-evolve into the real discussion as to whether or not any of the parties, AInc., Hyperion, OR Cloanto ever really had a legitimate claim to the IP.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.01.18 - 02:36
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  • Just looking around
    slug
    Posts: 3 from 2017/7/24
    You know.. I'm rather very new to Amiga but this is the kind of stuff that gets to me..

    I really don't like the fighting these company's or what ever are doing. Imagine if they were all working together, or if this stuff was just all open source.

    It's why I took to morphOS out of all the amiga like OS options this one seems to support the most hardware and the UI beautiful with far less of the BS and angry Amiga people..

    Please no hate..but it's honestly just from my own experience that if you question anything about AmigaOS you'll get so much hate..

    I'm mostly a linux guy so maybe my way of thinking is just wrong here. Lol

    Happy new years everyone! :D
  • »01.01.18 - 03:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2489 from 2003/2/24
    Jim,

    Cloanto does not have a license, they are *the owners*, hence they do whatever they want.

    Amiga Inc owns nothing.

    Hyperion owns nothing except what they have been developing *on top of* Cloanto’s property.

    “The Settlement” is between Hyperion an Amiga Inc, noone else. Go figure...



    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 01.01.2018 - 03:42 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »01.01.18 - 03:36
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  • rob
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 85 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Jim,

    Cloanto does not have a license, they are *the owners*, hence they do whatever they want.

    Amiga Inc owns nothing.

    Hyperion owns nothing except what they have been developing *on top of* Cloanto’s property.

    “The Settlement” is between Hyperion an Amiga Inc, noone else. Go figure...




    Are all licensing agreements with Amiga Inc now invalid or just the ones that don't suit you? Are the A1200.NET cases now on shaky ground or are they fine because you only hate Hyperion?
  • »02.01.18 - 11:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9674 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> the ”settlement” is between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, concerning IP that *none*
    >>> of these companies own, be it the copyrights or trademarks. Cloanto owns it all.

    >> The settlement agreement is also concerning OS4, which Cloanto certainly
    >> does not own all of.

    > OS4 does not exist without the Cloanto IP.

    Yet, Cloanto does not own all of OS4, so it does not own all IP the settlement agreement is concerning.
  • »02.01.18 - 12:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9674 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Jim, Cloanto [...] are *the owners*

    He knows that claim of Cloanto's, but he clearly doesn't believe it. There's hope that Cloanto will publish the respective 2011/2012 paperworks in the course of the current lawsuit so it'll be for everybody to see if true or not.

    > “The Settlement” is between Hyperion an Amiga Inc, noone else.

    The 2009 settlement agreement is between 4 companies:
    - Amiga Inc. (Delaware; renamed from KMOS Inc. in 2005)
    - Itec LLC
    - Amino Development Corp. (Washington; renamed from Amiga Inc. in 2007; renamed from Amino Development Corp. in 2000)
    - Hyperion Entertainment VOF

    http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php/news/38-corporate/134-hyperion-entertainment-cvba-and-amiga-inc-reach-settlement
  • »02.01.18 - 13:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9674 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> They sued Titan Computer

    >> Any more examples of Hyperion's "unnecessary litigation"?

    > Amiga

    As said, that was a countersuit, and certainly not unnecessary from Hyperion's viewpoint.

    > possibly Epic, possibly H&P.

    ...or possibly not. I'm not aware of litigation between Hyperion and either company.

    > Being litigious isn't just about suing people, it's also about giving people
    > little choice but sue you.

    Seems it has been language barrier at work then. The German translations for "litigious" can only be used for the suing party, but not for the party sued. As you are a native English speaker I'll have to give that to you.

    >>> and seem to have fallen out with Haage&Partner for a similar reason.

    >> Any details on that?

    > See Steffen Hausser, ANN.lu.

    I cannot find anything on a fallout between H&P and Hyperion on anna.amigazeux.org, less so involving Steffen "MagicSN" Häuser. Can you give more hints to better define the search?

    >>> They spent enormous time trying to convince people that [...]
    >>> bPlan were putting logic bombs in their firmware

    >> Any details on that?

    > See ANN.lu, the ShopIP saga. [...] Ben was posting on AWN's hidden forums and the
    > OS4 mailing list [...], forging a false narrative that the fanboys could all parrot.

    I vaguely remember this story between Genesi, ShopIP and certain OpenBSD developers. There was a public accusation (later retracted) by Mitch B. Parker regarding a "logic bomb" in the CrunchBox code allegedly inserted by Genesi.
    I'm not sure of the relevance of "firmware", Ben Hermans, hidden forums or OS4 (mailing list) in this context.

    >>> They walked into the original agreement with Amiga Inc believing that
    >>> that AInc would just go bankrupt and they'd walk with the Amiga name

    >> I'm not aware that the 2001 agreement would have given ownership
    >> of the "Amiga" name to Hyperion in case of Amiga Inc. bankruptcy

    > Not ownership - just the ability to use it wherever they liked.

    Unlikely, as the "Amiga" name would have been purchased off the Amiga Inc. remnants by someone else who probably wouldn't have allowed Hyperion to "walk with the amiga name".

    > Much like A-Eon does now.

    No, A-Eon have been doing it much more subtly for the last 3½ years ;-)
  • »02.01.18 - 15:58
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1740 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    Unlikely, as the "Amiga" name would have been purchased off the Amiga Inc. remnants by someone else who probably wouldn't have allowed Hyperion to "walk with the amiga name".



    Sure they would, didn't stop Ben from claiming that that bankruptcy clause was his masterpiece.

    The only way it might have worked if AInc had been 100% solvent and creditfree at the time of signing.

    AInc on the other hand had insited on the 25000$ buyback clause being fully aware that OS4 would cost much more to develop.


    So in short, 2 conmans who thought they had just pulled a fast one on the other......
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »02.01.18 - 16:15
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4526 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Jim, Cloanto [...] are *the owners*

    He knows that claim of Cloanto's, but he clearly doesn't believe it. There's hope that Cloanto will publish the respective 2011/2012 paperworks in the course of the current lawsuit so it'll be for everybody to see if true or not.

    > “The Settlement” is between Hyperion an Amiga Inc, noone else.

    The 2009 settlement agreement is between 4 companies:
    - Amiga Inc. (Delaware; renamed from KMOS Inc. in 2005)
    - Itec LLC
    - Amino Development Corp. (Washington; renamed from Amiga Inc. in 2007; renamed from Amino Development Corp. in 2000)
    - Hyperion Entertainment VOF

    http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php/news/38-corporate/134-hyperion-entertainment-cvba-and-amiga-inc-reach-settlement


    Its not really a matter of belief, I just don't see how a 2011/2012 agreement would negate a 2009 agreement.
    This IS quite a hot mess.

    As to belief, I'm unsure that AInc. itself ever truly owned the rights to OS3.1 in the first place, but as latter variants were created under license from AInc. (although...wasn't that the first AInc....Amino, ah whatever).
    Basically, no one else was in a better position to claim ownership...


    [ Edited by Jim 04.01.2018 - 17:08 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.18 - 13:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2489 from 2003/2/24
    Amy owns a car. Since 2009 she has let Hyper Harry use it. Still Amy”s car though.

    Cloe has also been allowed to use the car, actually for much longer, even since long before Hyper Harry even existed. Over time, Cloe has taken over more and more of the actual ownership of the car from Amy. She has still let Hyper Harry use it though, at least as long as they were friends.

    But then in his eternal wisdom Hyper Harry decides to screw Cloe over in her own domain as part of an obvious robbery scheme against her. Then Cloe won’t allow him to use the car anymore.

    “But hey”, Hyper Harry says, “Amy lets me”!

    “It’s my car”, Cloe say, “it’s my property as registered in public records since years. And I say no”!

    “But my agreement with Amy...” Hyper Harry wines...

    “Talk to *her* about it then, see if I care. It’s not her car, it’s *mine*! You should have given me love instead of hate! After all we were in bed together, we had something going, but you decided to rob me!”



    (Edit: The names has been changed to protect the innocent. And with the hope of Kronos won’t start targetting grannies with his car...)

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 04.01.2018 - 22:17 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.18 - 15:52
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1740 from 2003/2/24
    It‘s all alright as long as someone uses that car to driver over granny!

    [ Edited by Kronos 04.01.2018 - 16:19 ]
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »04.01.18 - 16:15
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4526 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    AmigaDave owns a car. Since 2009 he has let you use it. Still his car though.

    Kronos has also been allowed to use the car, actually since long before you even existed. Over time, Kronos has taken over more and more of the actual ownership of the car from AmigaDave. He has still let you use it though, at least as long as you were friends.

    But then in your eternal wisdom you decide to screw Kronos over in his home domain by raping his wife. Then Kronos won’t allow you to use the car anymore.

    “But hey”, you say, “AmigaDave lets me”!

    “It’s my car”, Kronos say, “my property as registered in public records since years. And I say no”!

    “But my agreement with AmigaDave...”

    “Talk to him about it, see if I care. It’s not his car, it’s mine”


    Lousy analogy.
    Let's look at this from a contractual law perspective.
    You, in a legally binding document, assign specific rights to develop from an IP.

    Without qualifiers or expiration clauses. In fact, the sole right to develop from that code base.

    Your later sale of that IP to another entity does not negate your earlier contractual obligation, or the assignee's rights to use the IP, as the new IP holder has no right to challenge a license issued by the previous IP holder.

    In fact, since the first agreement predates the later, it could be interpreted that Amiga Inc. did not have the right to confer full ownership of the Amiga IP, as it had previous legal obligations.

    Look, I live in Delaware (home to many of the parties involved in this fiasco), and I'm pretty sure we have a very linear interpretation of contract law.
    You're trying to throw emotive reasons into this mix, but that's a sure path to defeat.
    Because this is about issues that are defined in writing and are meant to be strictly interpreted in a rational manner.

    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    It‘s all alright as long as someone uses that car to driver over granny!


    If that was my grandmother, she'd be the one doing the driving.

    [ Edited by Jim 04.01.2018 - 10:26 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.18 - 16:24
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2489 from 2003/2/24
    It's a fundamental difference in concept between a loan/lease and ownership. If Hyperion is unhappy with Amiga Inc for whatever reason, they should bring it up with them.

    Heck, should Amiga Inc want to release a product based on Commodore Amiga OS (the "Checkmark Branch"), they would have to get a license from Cloanto, the registered copyright owners.

    It doesn't matter anyway. The whole purpose with the lawsuit is to disarm Hyperion as opposers to the Amiga trademark registration, to make a case that Hyperion in no way is entitled to this, since it is about ownership of IP that Hyperion has never owned, and any and all rights Hyperion might have to use the IP in question is predated by Cloanto by several years, no matter how you count. When that is done, when the situation has settled, when the Amiga trademark registration is a done deal, I am pretty sure Cloanto won't give a f!ck about Hyperion continue to develop and sell their OS4 to all 80 or so owners of €3000 AeonKit PPC motherboards. They might even be positive to that thought. I think they are. I think they want OS4 to continue. Maybe they will once again be part of new OS4 products as well. I also think they want Olsen to continue his development of the 68k side of the "Bong Ball Branch" as well.

    Cloanto is as old as Commodore Amiga. They must be the oldest still existing Amiga company in the world. Nothing in their track record suggest anything in the line of them wanting to stop or prevent things. That kind of crap is all in Hyperion's domains. No, with Cloanto it is the opposite, they want Amiga to exist forever in whatever past/present/future shapes and forms possible, and they want as many as possible to be part of it.

    Hence their talk about "A discourse on possible Amiga futures":

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=42002&forum=2&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.18 - 16:58
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 108 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > [...] which makes ”the settlement” kind of worthless.

    Apparently, Cloanto considers the settlement agreement so worthless that they use it to make their points in 19 of the total 72 paragraphs (i.e. more than a fourth) of the complaint ;-)


    I'm obviously missing some obvious explanation here. Perhaps you can help explain this to me...

    Quote:

    10) Asemoon: Will the classic Amiga ROMs ( v1.0-3.1) be included on the AmigaOS4 CD for UAE emulation?

    Fleecy: We are looking into this but no decision has been made. It is likely that we will work with Cloanto since they are the only ones with an established and legal product in this area.


    Source

    Since it's already been proven in this thread that 1.3 was included with 4.1...
    Source

    How did this right get to Hyperion if Amiga Inc. is making the admittance (above) that it was not their right (and therefore obviously not their right to transfer via a settlement agreement with Hyperion)?

    #6
  • »04.01.18 - 17:32
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4526 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > [...] which makes ”the settlement” kind of worthless.

    Apparently, Cloanto considers the settlement agreement so worthless that they use it to make their points in 19 of the total 72 paragraphs (i.e. more than a fourth) of the complaint ;-)


    I'm obviously missing some obvious explanation here. Perhaps you can help explain this to me...

    Quote:

    10) Asemoon: Will the classic Amiga ROMs ( v1.0-3.1) be included on the AmigaOS4 CD for UAE emulation?

    Fleecy: We are looking into this but no decision has been made. It is likely that we will work with Cloanto since they are the only ones with an established and legal product in this area.


    Source

    Since it's already been proven in this thread that 1.3 was included with 4.1...
    Source

    How did this right get to Hyperion if Amiga Inc. is making the admittance (above) that it was not their right (and therefore obviously not their right to transfer via a settlement agreement with Hyperion)?

    #6



    Confusing, isn't it?
    When it was in AInc.'s interests to offer licenses for AmigaOS, it did.
    That's where H&P came in until OS4, development of which was transferred to Hyperion, which managed to secure an agreement with AInc. that included a bankruptcy clause...which they exercised in order to obtain the sole ownership of OS4 and, in a settlement resolution were awarded the sole right to develop from OS3.1 source code.

    Its convoluted, but as there is more than a little valid proof that the entity that owned AmigaOS never properly completed transfer to the new AmigaInc. in Delaware (with whom Cloanto has their contracts).
    AND that the former holders of the IP, and AmigaInc. of Delaware, and Hyperion mutually agreed that a license for the sole right to develop from OS3.1 was conferred to Hyperion.

    I don't think Delaware courts will invalidate this settlement, as it involves all the related parties, while the Cloanto agreement is only between Cloanto and AmigaInc. Delaware, a company that may not even have the right to confer that IP, which has in any case previously assigned rights to license that product to another company.

    SO, anyone not with my logic here? You don't have to agree with it, but between the you and me, I probably have more experience and education dealing with Delaware business law than most of you.

    [ Edited by Jim 04.01.2018 - 14:11 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.18 - 17:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1120 from 2003/6/17
    I dont care either way if either or both companies sue the shit out of each other until they're broke and end up closing up shop.

    That would be great. I'm glad I went the MorphOS way, regardless of how little I use it. Its amazing how people get so wound up about the Amiga nowadays.
  • »04.01.18 - 18:30
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4526 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the same conditions existed before 2016.

    You are right. The "Infringing CDROMs" supposedly contain AmigaOS 4.1FE (or when was Kickstart 1.3 first included with OS4?), which was released in December 2014.


    Actually, I'd agree that the inclusion of Kickstart 1.3 is NOT covered by the KMOS, AmigaInc., Hyperion settlement.
    That WAS pretty stupid on Ben's part.

    Including 3.1 should not pose a similar problem, or development of further variants of 3.1.

    Here I'd tend to side with TMHGM. There's no real threat to OS4 here, only Hyperion itself, as a financial judgement against them could mortally wound the company.

    This WILL get interesting.

    There are a multitude of possible outcomes.

    Hyperion might just be required to eliminate infringing material from their current and future stock of CDs, they could be required to pay for their past infringements, or both parties could come to a mutually agreeable settlement.

    My guess is this will slowly be worked out.
    Because even if pursued aggressively, Clanto could never gain ALL the rights to OS4.
    And its unlikely they want to see the only company legally entitled to develop from the OS3.1 sources eliminated from the market.

    And Ben hasn't threatened Cloanto for their development of 3.1....yet.

    Something tells me these two entities will work this out.
    After all, I doubt Hyperion wants to base OS3.X on OS3.0 or earlier.
    And the loss of Kickstart 1.3 to Hyperion is no big deal (they could even help Cloanto gain some business by referencing customers to them for earlier releases).
    Just as Cloanto could help Hyperion sell some copies of OS4 for emulation.

    Some both parties could gain in this, and a one sided solution is not going to benefit either.

    If you eliminate the irrational/emotive logic messing up this equation, then a rational approach seems simple.
    A mutual agreement for cross licensing and promotion is the most likely outcome.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.18 - 19:12
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  • rob
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    rob
    Posts: 85 from 2008/7/22
    The Eyetech Debian CD for the AmigaOne came with UAE and a full install of OS3.1 was included with permission from Amiga Inc. I don't think any other version were included.
  • »04.01.18 - 19:37
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4526 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    The Eyetech Debian CD for the AmigaOne came with UAE and a full install of OS3.1 was included with permission from Amiga Inc. I don't think any other version were included.


    For most of us, that would be all we require.
    I don't even understand the logic in including earlier versions, outside of their possible use under emulation for increased compatibility.

    And I don't require THAT much compatibility in an NG system.

    Hey, if I can't get it to run on my NG hardware, my A2000 or my CD32/SX1 without resorting to really ancient ROMs...I don't need it.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.18 - 20:19
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