Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    It never really occurred to me before but when Amino (Amiga Washington) was resurrected, did that make them again liable to pay Bolton Peck?
  • »31.10.18 - 17:17
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Does this fall within the scope of what Cloanto are allowed to do?

    https://amigastore.eu/en/522-sd-configuration-for-mist-fpga.html


    Yes, Cloanto are the legal rights holder for all things Amiga not named OS4.
  • »31.10.18 - 17:18
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Does this fall within the scope of what Cloanto are allowed to do?

    https://amigastore.eu/en/522-sd-configuration-for-mist-fpga.html


    Yes, Cloanto are the legal rights holder for all things Amiga not named OS4.


    The question is are they really. We have seen that they've registered a bunch of stuff but I'm not aware of any kind of audit trail showing how and from whom they got the rights to do so. Maybe all the paperwork is in order and of course they have no obligation to make such details public.
    We have to bear in mind that they tried to take the Amiga brand by stealth when they thought nobody was looking. Who's to say that isn't the case with regard to everything else they appear to own.

    Having observed the previous legal battle between Hyperion and the Amiga parties I don't think we can really predict how this will eventually play out but it does look like Hyperion may have come unstuck this time.
    If the Amiga parties win and regain control of all they conceded to Hyperion then who is to say they will stop there. They have let a lot of their IP slip through their fingers and it's in the hands Cloanto. The Amiga brand and a few other marks are all that the Amiga parties can sell or do anything with right now and Cloanto are brazenly claiming on their website that the Amiga brand is theirs. Don't you think they'll be seen as a threat that needs to be addressed once Hyperion have been dealt with.

    If Cloanto's trademark and copyright registrations aren't built on steady foundations it could just as easily be the beginning of the end of their Amiga related activities too.
  • »31.10.18 - 22:16
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'm not aware of any kind of audit trail showing how and from whom
    > they got the rights to do so. Maybe all the paperwork is in order and
    > of course they have no obligation to make such details public.

    See comment #391.

    > [...] it could just as easily be the beginning of the end of their
    > Amiga related activities too.

    Btw, these websites have been there since 2010/2011.
  • »01.11.18 - 00:49
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    It never really occurred to me before but when Amino (Amiga Washington) was resurrected, did that make them again liable to pay Bolton Peck?


    Of course not. That debt has already been passed onto Amiga Inc (add random state here). Along with Genesi's won right to have AmigaDE run on the Pegasos and whatever else Amiga Inc have lost.

    Ben Hermans thinking he would outlawyer these people with "cleverly" worded contracts and settlements is the reason why Hyperion (and by extension, him) are in such debt. He doesn't seem to have realised that winning cases isn't how it works with Amiga Inc - it's all about attrition and the long game.

    Mike Battilana has a much stronger relationship with Amiga Inc, and is unlikely to find himself in the firing line, because he knew the score from the beginning. Ben, Trevor, et al had to learn it the hard way. And apparently still haven't.

    [ Edited by KennyR 01.11.2018 - 14:59 ]
  • »01.11.18 - 14:58
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> when Amino (Amiga Washington) was resurrected, did that
    >> make them again liable to pay Bolton Peck?

    > Of course not. That debt has already been passed onto Amiga Inc

    On what base? Why should any (wage) debt of Amino/AIW have been passed to Itec or KMOS/AID as part of the Amiga IP sale/shift to those companies? Opposed to what KMOS claimed back then and as has been obvious for quite a while, KMOS never acquired Amino/AIW or Itec.

    > Along with Genesi's won right to have AmigaDE run on the Pegasos

    The obligation to port AmigaDE to the Pegasos (as Tao's Elate/intent license was part of the IP sale/transfer from Amino/AIW to KMOS), yes, but the right, unless expired, is still with Genesi.
  • »01.11.18 - 16:48
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    On what base? Why should any (wage) debt of Amino/AIW have been passed to Itec or KMOS/AID as part of the Amiga IP sale/shift to those companies? Opposed to what KMOS claimed back then and as has been obvious for quite a while, KMOS never acquired Amino/AIW or Itec.


    Because Amiga Inc, that's why.

    Bolton long ago got the message that squeezing anything out of Amiga Inc would cost him far more time, effort and money than simply writing it off.
  • »01.11.18 - 16:54
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>> when Amino (Amiga Washington) was resurrected, did that
    >>>> make them again liable to pay Bolton Peck?

    >>> Of course not. That debt has already been passed onto Amiga Inc

    >> On what base?

    > Because Amiga Inc

    I take this as a "None".

    > Bolton long ago got the message that squeezing anything out of Amiga Inc
    > would cost him far more time, effort and money than simply writing it off.

    That doesn't change the fact that Amino/AIW has been and still is the party liable to pay Bolton Peck (as well as its other numerous debt holders), because the debt was never passed onto KMOS/AID. This is what rob asked. The debt may or may not have expired by now, but it's certainly not with KMOS/AID.
  • »01.11.18 - 18:51
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    You still seem to be labouring under the false impression that Amiga Inc are an actual company and not a money laundering front, and that such things apply.

    It's a good bet that half a million they put into paying their tax bills and re-awakening will stay there only as long as they've dealt with Hyperion (either pummeled or starved it out), sunk 3.1.4 and snaffled any revenue they can from it, and possibly even the same with "Powered by AmigaOS" merchandising and anything Trevor and AmigaKit might have that has exploited the Amiga or AmigaOS brands.

    Then the money will be inexplicably shunted to somewhere else and any debtors past and present will be told it doesn't exist, and the company will go back into apparent hibernation while its many shells do similar to other things.
  • »01.11.18 - 22:40
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You still seem to be labouring under the false impression that
    > Amiga Inc are an actual company

    Amiga Inc. (all of them) is a registered company. That's why they are not above laws and court orders that apply to companies. I believe the Washington Secretary of State over you any time:

    https://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/business.aspx?ubi=601983734
    https://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/business.aspx?ubi=602621140
    https://www.sos.wa.gov/corps/business.aspx?ubi=603003326

    > and not a money laundering front

    Even if they are, that doesn't make them any less of a registered company.

    > and that such things apply.

    Yes, of course they do. Bolton's remaining wages are with Amino/AIW, unless a court decides that their debts were somehow passed to KMOS/AID, which I'm not aware has happened. Of course Bolton can try to sue KMOS/AID for his money, but the prospect of the claim being allowed let alone being successful are likely close to zero for the reasons I gave.

    > half a million they put into paying their tax bills and re-awakening [...].
    > [...] any debtors past and present will be told it doesn't exist

    Bolton is a debtor of Amino/AIW. The half a million for tax bills was put into KMOS/AID.
  • »02.11.18 - 08:52
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > when Amino (Amiga Washington) was resurrected, did that make them
    > again liable to pay Bolton Peck?

    Just to note that the company with its half a million tax debt now paid (or forgiven?) is KMOS/AID, not Amino/AIW.
  • »02.11.18 - 09:01
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > You still seem to be labouring under the false impression that
    > Amiga Inc are an actual company

    Amiga Inc. (all of them) is a registered company. That's why they are not above laws and court orders that apply to companies. I believe the Washington Secretary of State over you any time


    I'm not sure you've even actually read anything I've written.
  • »02.11.18 - 12:54
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'm not sure you've even actually read anything I've written.

    I'm sure I read everything you wrote way more thoroughly than you read rob's question in #451.
  • »02.11.18 - 13:07
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2231 from 2003/2/24
    I for sure didn't properly ready any of these post......
















    ..... and still having a blast.
  • »02.11.18 - 13:15
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Is this legal?


    https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2004774432918382&id=100001575350957

    [ Edited by Intuition 04.11.2018 - 22:08 ]
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »04.11.18 - 22:07
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Is this legal?

    https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2004774432918382&id=100001575350957


    No, it's piracy.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.11.18 - 23:19
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Is this legal?

    https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2004774432918382&id=100001575350957


    No, it's piracy.




    Naughty!
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »05.11.18 - 10:00
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1217 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    I for sure didn't properly ready any of these post......

    ..... and still having a blast.


    I just want shit to hit the fan and everything to fall apart. Any legal claim lost, all fucked. That would make me laugh and I wouldnt care at all.
  • »06.11.18 - 14:02
    Profile Visit Website
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    outlawal2
    Posts: 87 from 2009/5/6
    Well yeah because that would be great for the Amiga community now wouldn't it?

    Personally, I wish all of this crap would stop so we could work toward a decent Amiga environment where the platform could progress and thrive, but apparently this is the wrong forum for anything other than negativity and ill will..

    So friggin tired of every forum and every online environment being nothing but negative crap, trolls and bullshit.

    Pretty much NOWHERE can you find a civil conversation about anything these days and I would be sad if it didn't simply piss me off..

    So Magicm please go ahead and continue wishing the worst on anything Amiga and continue to live your sorry dark and depressing life.. I will simply try to ignore the hate... Which seems to be a more difficult proposition every day
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »06.11.18 - 15:19
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    Personally, I wish all of this crap would stop so we could work toward a decent Amiga environment where the platform could progress and thrive, but apparently this is the wrong forum for anything other than negativity and ill will..

    So friggin tired of every forum and every online environment being nothing but negative crap, trolls and bullshit.

    Pretty much NOWHERE can you find a civil conversation about anything these days and I would be sad if it didn't simply piss me off..


    Ignoring the fact that civility is relative (and is taken by many to mean "don't disagree with me"), there's left nothing to be civil about. The situation is a horror show, and all the players covered in shit. We're long past the point where sugar-coating the harsh reality helped with any kind of community cohesion.

    AmigaWorld once censored any criticism of Amiga Inc, Hyperion, and Eyetech. They even at one point had secret forums to discuss AmigaONE hardware bugs, Articia and so on while at the same time in the forums denying and decrying anyone who dared mention these things in public as trolls and liars.

    Did this apparently more "friendly" atmosphere on the surface change anything for the better? Did it make the underlying problems and legal disputes go away? Nope. Indeed they only made them worse because people are unaware of the legal issues, allowing them and their purchases to be used as inadvertent ammunition in those disputes and make them last longer - much like Ben is trying to do against Cloanto right now. And robbed of their sight, it was all the more shocking for them when they discovered there had been problems, like how the rumours of Amiga Inc and Hyperion not getting on wasn't news to anyone when the lawsuit became public - well, not news everyone but AmigaWorld regulars, that is.

    The self-righteous removal of people's comments just made the community even more angry and bitter and divided, which eventually led to AO splitting to AWN, then again AWN purging its more intolerant elements to Amigans.net, where they are frozen in perpetual but happy ignorance. If heat death for the universe had a platform analogue, the current situation in Amigaland would be it.
  • »06.11.18 - 16:01
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The self-righteous removal of people's comments just
    > made the community even more angry and bitter and
    > divided, which eventually led to AO splitting to AWN

    You mean the people who moved to AWN from AO were those who didn't like their comments self-righteously removed on AO? As far as I remember, it was more like the end of the self-righteous removal of people's comments made other people move to AWN.
  • »06.11.18 - 16:42
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    outlawal2 schrieb:
    Well yeah because that would be great for the Amiga community now wouldn't it?

    Personally, I wish all of this crap would stop so we could work toward a decent Amiga environment where the platform could progress and thrive, but apparently this is the wrong forum for anything other than negativity and ill will..

    So friggin tired of every forum and every online environment being nothing but negative crap, trolls and bullshit.

    Pretty much NOWHERE can you find a civil conversation about anything these days and I would be sad if it didn't simply piss me off..

    So Magicm please go ahead and continue wishing the worst on anything Amiga and continue to live your sorry dark and depressing life.. I will simply try to ignore the hate... Which seems to be a more difficult proposition every day





    You know, this is morph.zone, not amiga.zone. Dunno how about you, but I chose MorphOS as my favorite Amiga style OS for a couple of reasons (in a nutshell: 1st: technologically most advanced and matured, 2nd no irrational promises and word domination dreams neither by the developers nor the users, 3rd no law sh*t).

    I left Amiga(tm) (the name believing part of the Amiga heritage) for a couple of reasons I saw there. And it is and was clear since years. If it now crashes ultimatively, well, no sorry by me. I saw it coming, I took my concusons i bet on another horse and told it over teh years again and again. the name followers have been warned. A few years back I may even have laughed about this Amiga/Hyperion drama, today I am only yawning...

    I guess among the MorphOS users I am not alone with this view.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »06.11.18 - 17:25
    Profile Visit Website
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    outlawal2
    Posts: 87 from 2009/5/6
    Kenny R I am not looking for censorship or anything of that kind, I am just wishing the world wasn't one complete mass of a$$holes.. Talking about a situation is one thing.. Wishing ill on everything and everyone is not useful to anyone.

    Simple as that...

    (And where exactly did you come up with self righteous? Exactly how am I self righteous pointing out the fact that folks are painfully negative? And are you going to debate this statement?)


    This thread.. very little other than negativity..

    Amiga.org.. Same
    MotoGP forum.. NOTHING but Trolls and a$$holes.. (Can't tell you how many "fans" thought it was awesome that the leader of the motorcycle race fell but they were disappointed that he wasn't hurt.)

    ANYTHING that has to do with online gaming is absolutely ruined.. I quit trying to do anything with online gaming YEARS ago because of it.

    The entire online community is rife with negative, nasty people that have nothing of value to say or add to any civil conversation..

    And I am damned tired of it all..
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »06.11.18 - 17:33
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    Talking about a situation is one thing.. Wishing ill on everything and everyone is not useful to anyone.

    Simple as that...


    Maybe not so simple as you think, but generally, I agree that there is often too much negativity, and that wishing people ill is USUALLY not useful to anyone.

    Quote:

    ....pointing out the fact that folks are painfully negative? And are you going to debate this statement?)


    I'm not interested in debating that there are some negative comments, and people posting in this thread, but I would disagree that stating an opinion that the Amiga community might be better off if Hyperion Entertainment ceased to exist, is not an entirely negative comment, and it depends on your own point of view. In my case, I see that statement as a "matter of fact", which is of course only my opinion.

    Quote:

    This thread.. very little other than negativity..


    I disagree, and think that this thread has provided lots of useful information about what is going on between the several parties involved.

    Quote:

    The entire online community is rife with negative, nasty people that have nothing of value to say or add to any civil conversation..

    And I am damned tired of it all..



    I suggest you spend less time reading online comments then, and become involved with friends and family instead. Life is short my friend.

    Peace
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »06.11.18 - 18:00
    Profile