Intro thread and a bunch of questions.
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2067 from 2003/2/24
    @Jim

    99% of current macOS users don't have personal memories with MacOS so I doubt it's really much of a negative.

    What it does is making it easier to for new users:

    AppleTV ? Look up stuff for tvOS
    iPhone/pad -> iOS
    AppleWatch -> watchOS
    Mac -> OS_X ? OSX11 ? OS_10 ? WTF ???
  • »30.11.16 - 16:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @Jim

    99% of current macOS users don't have personal memories with MacOS so I doubt it's really much of a negative.

    What it does is making it easier to for new users:

    AppleTV ? Look up stuff for tvOS
    iPhone/pad -> iOS
    AppleWatch -> watchOS
    Mac -> OS_X ? OSX11 ? OS_10 ? WTF ???


    Remembering that the Amiga had a color display before the Mac, and that early versions of MacOS didn't even have a CLI does tend to taint my perception.
    Funny, I don't use AppleTV, an iPhone, or an iPad, so Apple interactivity doesn't affect me.

    But having MacOS jacked up and a real OS driven underneath it to give it solid base?
    Definitely a plus. Its NEXT's only lasting legacy.

    [ Edited by Jim 30.11.2016 - 14:55 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.11.16 - 17:23
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1244 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

    Well for me, it's because the Amiga has always had the most elegant/intuitive OS that, so far, has been programmed, IMHO. 8-D

    It's just a pity that most people of the era that it was programmed/released in remember it for just a gaming system, rather than looking into the useability of the OS itself.

    Probably most of us who still use the Amiga, and other variants like MorphOS really appreciated what it is capable of, as it is the first truly multi-tasking OS, that actually 'does what it says on the tin' and have loved using it..
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.17,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5.
  • »30.11.16 - 19:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

    Well for me, it's because the Amiga has always had the most elegant/intuitive OS that, so far, has been programmed, IMHO. 8-D

    It's just a pity that most people of the era that it was programmed/released in remember it for just a gaming system, rather than looking into the useability of the OS itself.

    Probably most of us who still use the Amiga, and other variants like MorphOS really appreciated what it is capable of, as it is the first truly multi-tasking OS, that actually 'does what it says on the tin' and have loved using it..


    +1

    The responsiveness of the AmigaOS1.0 to 3.1, even when run on an ancient 7MHz Motorola 68000 CPU, plus the amazing multi-tasking that actually works better than any version of Windows, or MacOSX, in my experience, is what impresses me the most, and keeps me wanting to use it. That plus the fact that the Amiga A1000 was my first personal computer, and first learning experience on any computer platform. What I learned on my A1000 allowed me to advance further and faster than all my fellow employees, and I credit the Amiga as an essential part of why someone like me, without a college degree, was able to attain the position of Director of Building & Safety, and Chief Building Official, which normally require at least a Bachelor's degree (in anything), and more often require post graduate education, or a Masters degree.

    If only Commodore had spent more time and money further developing AmigaOS, and had upgraded the Amiga's hardware, to keep it far ahead of the IBM clones with Windows, or Mac's and MacOS, plus marketed it correctly to include business and education sales, the increased sales would have kept Commodore afloat and the computing world would be a very different place than it is today. Anyone who saw a side by side comparison of the Amiga A1000, one of the original monochrome Mac's, and IBM x86 clones, would clearly choose the Amiga, if comparable software was available for all three. Marketing the Amiga as primarily only a games machine doomed it from the very early days.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »30.11.16 - 21:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Its NEXT's only lasting legacy.

    There's GNUstep, which is an active project predating Apple's Cocoa. There's even a GNUstep link in MorphOS.
  • »30.11.16 - 23:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > MorphOS [...] does not support computers designed to natively boot Mac OS 9.2.2.
    > It is almost as if MorphOS picks up where Mac OS 9.2.2 left off.

    MorphOS-supported Mac: pre-installed Mac OS version
    PowerMac G4 AGP Graphics (PowerMac3,1): 8.5 or 8.6
    PowerMac G4 Gigabit Ethernet (PowerMac3,3): 9.0.4
    PowerMac G4 Cube (PowerMac5,1): 9.0.4 or 9.1
    PowerMac G4 Digital Audio (PowerMac3,4): 9.1 (or 10.0.3)
    PowerMac G4 QuickSilver (PowerMac3,5): 9.2 (or 10.0.4)
    PowerMac G4 QuickSilver 2002 (PowerMac3,5): 9.2.2 (or 10.1.2)
    PowerMac G4 MDD (PowerMac3,6): 9.2.2 (or 10.2)
    PowerBook G4 Titanium (PowerBook3,5): 9.2.2 (or 10.2.1)

    As you can see, MorphOS does even support computers designed to natively boot Mac OS 8.5 :-)


    Yes but installing native boot Mac OS 9 is a pain, perhaps impossible, unless factory discs can be located. Retail Mac OS 9 can not boot on these computers.

    Also Mac OS 9.2.2 is the final Mac OS 9. It is not being updated with the exception of after market softwares and modifications. Oh the other hand, MorphOS is actively updated. :-D So it picks up where Mac OS 9.2.2 left off in two ways.
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »01.12.16 - 05:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    I'll agree that OSX is somewhat bloated, but objections to it being called MacOS baffle me. Frankly I consider that marketing shift to be a negative. Until OS10, I had no use what so ever for MacOS.
    OSX's BSD base is definitely superior to earlier forms of MacOS.
    Its one of the few things I will give Jobs a nod for.


    Having a BSD base is not very noticeable if OSX is bloated.

    Also, Apple likes to brag about itself, you would think that they would be capable of either designing software and also OS from scratch or buy the Unix company.

    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @Jim

    99% of current macOS users don't have personal memories with MacOS so I doubt it's really much of a negative.

    What it does is making it easier to for new users:

    AppleTV ? Look up stuff for tvOS
    iPhone/pad -> iOS
    AppleWatch -> watchOS
    Mac -> OS_X ? OSX11 ? OS_10 ? WTF ???


    I am not a current "Mac" user. :-) Only Ancient Macs with 9.2.2 or MorphOS. :-D (Also, iPods)

    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

    Well for me, it's because the Amiga has always had the most elegant/intuitive OS that, so far, has been programmed, IMHO. 8-D

    It's just a pity that most people of the era that it was programmed/released in remember it for just a gaming system, rather than looking into the useability of the OS itself.

    Probably most of us who still use the Amiga, and other variants like MorphOS really appreciated what it is capable of, as it is the first truly multi-tasking OS, that actually 'does what it says on the tin' and have loved using it..


    +1

    The responsiveness of the AmigaOS1.0 to 3.1, even when run on an ancient 7MHz Motorola 68000 CPU, plus the amazing multi-tasking that actually works better than any version of Windows, or MacOSX, in my experience, is what impresses me the most, and keeps me wanting to use it. That plus the fact that the Amiga A1000 was my first personal computer, and first learning experience on any computer platform. What I learned on my A1000 allowed me to advance further and faster than all my fellow employees, and I credit the Amiga as an essential part of why someone like me, without a college degree, was able to attain the position of Director of Building & Safety, and Chief Building Official, which normally require at least a Bachelor's degree (in anything), and more often require post graduate education, or a Masters degree.

    If only Commodore had spent more time and money further developing AmigaOS, and had upgraded the Amiga's hardware, to keep it far ahead of the IBM clones with Windows, or Mac's and MacOS, plus marketed it correctly to include business and education sales, the increased sales would have kept Commodore afloat and the computing world would be a very different place than it is today. Anyone who saw a side by side comparison of the Amiga A1000, one of the original monochrome Mac's, and IBM x86 clones, would clearly choose the Amiga, if comparable software was available for all three. Marketing the Amiga as primarily only a games machine doomed it from the very early days.


    People who use computers only for games don't have any actual use for computers. Amiga Computer should have been targeted towards various Office, Business, Education, Graphics, Radio, and Television companies. The "TV Guide" channel was an Amiga, and The Weather Channel didn't use Amigas but something very similar. If Commodore Amiga would have focused on selling computers to The Weather Channel for example then they would have been extremely successful.
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »01.12.16 - 05:28
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  • Just looking around
    relyt
    Posts: 20 from 2014/6/5
    From: Lyons, KS, USA
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

    Well for me, it's because the Amiga has always had the most elegant/intuitive OS that, so far, has been programmed, IMHO. 8-D

    It's just a pity that most people of the era that it was programmed/released in remember it for just a gaming system, rather than looking into the useability of the OS itself.

    Probably most of us who still use the Amiga, and other variants like MorphOS really appreciated what it is capable of, as it is the first truly multi-tasking OS, that actually 'does what it says on the tin' and have loved using it..


    +1

    The responsiveness of the AmigaOS1.0 to 3.1, even when run on an ancient 7MHz Motorola 68000 CPU, plus the amazing multi-tasking that actually works better than any version of Windows, or MacOSX, in my experience, is what impresses me the most, and keeps me wanting to use it. That plus the fact that the Amiga A1000 was my first personal computer, and first learning experience on any computer platform. What I learned on my A1000 allowed me to advance further and faster than all my fellow employees, and I credit the Amiga as an essential part of why someone like me, without a college degree, was able to attain the position of Director of Building & Safety, and Chief Building Official, which normally require at least a Bachelor's degree (in anything), and more often require post graduate education, or a Masters degree.

    If only Commodore had spent more time and money further developing AmigaOS, and had upgraded the Amiga's hardware, to keep it far ahead of the IBM clones with Windows, or Mac's and MacOS, plus marketed it correctly to include business and education sales, the increased sales would have kept Commodore afloat and the computing world would be a very different place than it is today. Anyone who saw a side by side comparison of the Amiga A1000, one of the original monochrome Mac's, and IBM x86 clones, would clearly choose the Amiga, if comparable software was available for all three. Marketing the Amiga as primarily only a games machine doomed it from the very early days.


    I'm glad you guys stick around to keep the essence Amiga alive. How odd that 30 years after the A1000 was introduced, everything Amiga is new to me. I've been wanting to add a A1000 or A500 to my computer collection, but they're incredibly expensive even today.

    It seems to me like there is a big market for new Amiga systems in Europe. I've seen mention of an X1000 and other newer hardware offered by a few companies I've never heard of. I searched to see what an X1000 would cost, and the price was quite high. Beyond that, I don't think it was available for order. Am I opening a can of worms if I ask why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive? A PowerPC machine and a registered copy of MorphOS seem to be the way to go if one needs an affordable Amiga-compatible system.

    In the process of setting up my machine/learning stuff, I have installed Grunch for the purpose of installing software. I'm finding that some packages are either slow to download or download partially before an error is thrown. My Internet throughput is 50 / 5 (down / up) Mbps. Notably, the download for OWB was incredibly slow, and the download request for the MorphOS SDK threw an error. I was able to go online and successfully download both files from respective websites in a reasonable amount of time. If applicable, does Grunch automatically update its repository database? On Linux, one might have to enter (depending on package manager):
    Code:

    sudo apt-get update

    to update the database of software repositories. I wondered if I may need to do something similar with Grunch.

    Also, I would imagine there is some latency caused by requesting and retrieving packets across the Atlantic and across Europe. Would it be worthwhile to create a server here in the U.S.? If so, I might be able to offer some resources.
    UDP packet bar walks a into.
  • »01.12.16 - 05:35
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1890 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

    Well for me, it's because the Amiga has always had the most elegant/intuitive OS that, so far, has been programmed, IMHO. 8-D

    It's just a pity that most people of the era that it was programmed/released in remember it for just a gaming system, rather than looking into the useability of the OS itself.

    Probably most of us who still use the Amiga, and other variants like MorphOS really appreciated what it is capable of, as it is the first truly multi-tasking OS, that actually 'does what it says on the tin' and have loved using it..


    +1

    I just love the elegance and efficiency you find in AmigaOS/MorphOS everywhere under the hood, I've grown to it and want to continue using computers that way. No other system gives me such joy to use them. I just love the details in general usability (from keyboard controls to window handling), features in shell, ARexx connectibility with almost all programs, system structure and expandibility, MUI, etc.

    MorphOS, of course, takes these into whole new level and continues improving things. Now it would be quite hard to go back to AmigaOS too, but luckily I don't have any need for it either :)
  • »01.12.16 - 06:12
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1890 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    relyt wrote:
    It seems to me like there is a big market for new Amiga systems in Europe. I've seen mention of an X1000 and other newer hardware offered by a few companies I've never heard of. I searched to see what an X1000 would cost, and the price was quite high. Beyond that, I don't think it was available for order. Am I opening a can of worms if I ask why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive? A PowerPC machine and a registered copy of MorphOS seem to be the way to go if one needs an affordable Amiga-compatible system.


    It gets expensive when you have to make a whole new design and manufacturing of a machine which isn't expected to sell much and batches made are quite small. You can't press the price down with quantities.

    Somehow Genesi succeeded to make new quite affordable machines back in the day for MorphOS, but maybe times are even harder now and PPC as a platform is more marginal too. X1000 and forthcoming X5000 are also quite highend design, aiming for the perfomance rather than cutting costs.

    There have been a bit cheaper options from ACube, but in any case the problem with this kind of new hardware is that batches are small and they go out of stock pretty quickly, and you have to have lucky timing to get one. That's why it indeed is better to have support for other mainstream hardware which has been produced for masses and which is cheap. At least it will stay available for much longer and does have better support in every way.


    Quote:

    In the process of setting up my machine/learning stuff, I have installed Grunch for the purpose of installing software. I'm finding that some packages are either slow to download or download partially before an error is thrown. My Internet throughput is 50 / 5 (down / up) Mbps. Notably, the download for OWB was incredibly slow, and the download request for the MorphOS SDK threw an error. I was able to go online and successfully download both files from respective websites in a reasonable amount of time.


    Hmm.. the french server with OWB is known to be very slow to some locations... for some it seems to be slow, but for some it works fine, but that should have been affecting to your direct download too, I guess.

    Grunch seems to link SDK to morphos-files site, which has been abandoned lately and contains an old one now. Geit should update his database for it...


    Quote:

    If applicable, does Grunch automatically update its repository database?


    Yes, it should update its databases automatically. There is an official database and several user databases, and you can see them as "Grunch" type in the software list in the Grunch main window. You can check that they are in the Update mode for sure.
  • »01.12.16 - 06:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > you would think that they would [...] buy the Unix company.

    Why should Apple have bought SCO in 1997 when what they wanted and needed was low-level user space code from FreeBSD?

    > The Weather Channel didn't use Amigas but something very similar.

    What would that be?

    > If Commodore Amiga would have focused on selling computers to The Weather Channel
    > for example then they would have been extremely successful.

    You mean that channel had a need for millions of computers?
  • »01.12.16 - 17:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I searched to see what an X1000 would cost, and the price was quite high.
    > Beyond that, I don't think it was available for order.

    Yes, the X1000 sold out over a year ago. Its successor, the AmigaOne X5000, has become available just now.

    > why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale
    Btw, what does "third party" actually mean in Amiga context? :-)

    > does Grunch automatically update its repository database?

    No.
  • »01.12.16 - 17:51
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2067 from 2003/2/24
    Grunch databases get updated by Grunch aslong as someone bothered to update them.
  • »01.12.16 - 18:09
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Its NEXT's only lasting legacy.

    There's GNUstep, which is an active project predating Apple's Cocoa. There's even a GNUstep link in MorphOS.


    Interesting, I hadn't considered that.
    OK, they got a couple of things right.

    Quote:

    In_Correct wrote:
    ...
    Having a BSD base is not very noticeable if OSX is bloated.



    Personally, I'd point to BSD itself as being partially responsible for the bloat, but only because I've seen much slimmer *nix like OS' in the RTOS/process control market.


    [ Edited by Jim 01.12.2016 - 12:15 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.12.16 - 18:11
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  • Just looking around
    relyt
    Posts: 20 from 2014/6/5
    From: Lyons, KS, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I searched to see what an X1000 would cost, and the price was quite high.
    > Beyond that, I don't think it was available for order.

    Yes, the X1000 sold out over a year ago. Its successor, the AmigaOne X5000, has become available just now.

    > why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale
    Btw, what does "third party" actually mean in Amiga context? :-)

    > does Grunch automatically update its repository database?

    No.


    Good question. I used the term to refer to some organization not originally affiliated with Commodore/Amiga who produces compatible hardware. You're going to have to forgive my lack of knowledge about the respective marketplace and who owns the rights to what. I'm learning...
    UDP packet bar walks a into.
  • »01.12.16 - 18:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1244 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: A PowerPC machine and a registered copy of MorphOS seem to be the way to go if one needs an affordable Amiga-compatible system.

    Yes, I'd agree, why pay for OS4 anyway, as the prospects look, to me, very shaky/unstable at this moment in time, . . . AND MorphOS can run on hardware that's faster, cheaper, and works better than OS4, even when it's up and running. PLUS, you get all this, and much more support, if needed, for FREE. 8-D

    The only advantage to some is that OS4 can now run inside the UAE environment on PC hardware, but it still runs more slowly, AFAIK.

    I have OS4 Classic & OS4FE, as I'm a legacy guy (I'm taking the medicine for it right now, but it doesn't help) :-(

    *NOTE* OWB version 1.24 from 'Fab's site or probably elsewhere is supposed to use a marginally compromised SSL/TLS release, wheras the OWB version 1.23 on the MorphOSCD.iso is a later version that is resilient for 'Heartbleed' issues, also AFAIK. ;-)

    Quote:

    relyt/tyler wrote: In the process of setting up my machine/learning stuff, I have installed Grunch for the purpose of installing software. I'm finding that some packages are either slow to download or download partially before an error is thrown.

    Yes, I have had errors, such as ZoomIT -> that seems to want to find an older version than the newer version that is already available, so baulks, and displays an error. There are a few others, but as long as the majority are OK I think that's a good thing, and the few that are left usually are a straightforward double-click install if you download the specific archived files from wherever they 'reside' webpage/Aminet, etc..

    [ Edited by NewSense 01.12.2016 - 19:51 ]
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.17,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5.
  • »01.12.16 - 20:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2708 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:

    Somehow Genesi succeeded to make new quite affordable machines back in the day for MorphOS


    Development (the heaviest part of total cost for small volumes): They had the competence in-house, Carda and Knäbel were doing the development "for themselves" (to build their own company). Had they had to pay some third party to do all the development and testing/bugsearching who would invoice every minute of their work (like AeonKit does), then I believe things would have been different.

    Component cost: From what I understand (given the developers sponsoring programs, etc), they had some pretty tight relationship with key people over at the supplier of the Key Component, Freescale, who delivered the CPU's, the single most expensive component in the system. I seriously doubt they paid the standard list price.

    Production: Same as development, they took care of it themselves. They had the know-how, and they had access to DCE's production facilities. AFAIK, they basically went there and operated the machines themselves, at the expense of some midnight oil and perhaps hosting a barbecue evening for Thomas Dellert. And some money probably, but you know what I mean.

    They also did some actual market estimations and price calculations, and had the sense to *actually scrap* product ideas that they deemed wouldn't make sense from a customer price point of view. Take the Open Server Workstation for example, which would be directly comparable to the last Quad Core G5 PowerMac:





    The plan was a *complete system* for $1,500 (this was in 2006 I believe), and when that wasn't possible (there were some slightly bitter messages at the time suggesting that IBM wasn't really willing to negotiate the price of the Key Components), they simply scrapped the idea and moved on. Genesi/bPlan did this several times, with several projects. To the frustration of many of us. But this however, made MorphOS reconsider the options, hence the support for existing PPC Mac HW, resulting in an impressive list of 80+ supported systems, ranging from tiny footprint Mac Mini to big-box Power Mac's, and two lines of Laptops(!). And when it became obvious that the PPC died, it caused MorphOS to reconsider the options once again, hence the x64 migration path. This has become the way forward for MorphOS.

    MorphOS: One door closes, which happened several times, but each time another one (a better one) opened.


    AeonKit/Hyperion however, does not think like this. Rather the opposite; the opposite to *everything* I have written above. They select an obscure, extremely expensive (dead-end) CPU as base for a new machine, they make the design overly complex with features they don't even know themselves what's it for (making design, testing and production more expensive than necessary), they pay a third party for all the development, they pay insane prices for components, they pay third party for production. The result? Around 2006 Genesi scrapped the idea of a Quad G5 system for drifting away north of $1,500. In 2012, about three "Moore's law generations" later, AeonKit pushes a €3,000 Euro system performing in 2005 *G4* level. And they claim (with no shame) to do it at loss(!). And this road was collectively kamikaze-applauded as "the way forward" (for OS4). And pretty much still is. Because of this, OS4 is bound to reach "the end of the road" soon, if it hasn't already. I believe it effectively did, some years ago actually, but only now is the effects starting to show.

    OS4: Blind people yelled "hold that PPC door open", and AeonKit put down their hopeless X1000 door stop. And the door didn't close. Hence no better one opened.

    Anyway, water under the bridges...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »01.12.16 - 21:19
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Genesi still operates in a similar fashion to the above described logic.
    When I contacted Bill Buck about the idea of building one final PPC board, he had already scheduled an appointment with Freescale reps to discuss another matter.
    He assured me that he had engineers that could handle the design work, and that he still had access to Thomas' production facilities.
    He then asked for a summary of the ideas currently being floated for a low cost board and the likely cpu candidates.
    After discussing it here and at other sites, I sent him outlines of three specific types of systems (based both on e5500 and e6500 cored cpus) that represented a cross section of possible approaches at different performance and price points,
    Unfortunately, Bill did not receive much encouragement or interest from Freescale on this project, and he decided not pursue it.
    I respect that decision as one based on sound business principles.
    I have since decided to purchase an Aeon X5000 as my last PPC based MorphOS system and will wait patiently to see what Geit and the rest of the MorphOS developers do on the X64 front.

    Personally, I like the PPC cpu, and if it had more of a future, I'd be pushing further for it.
    But I've learned from past support decisions that our developers have a good grasp of the hardware market and will undoubtedly lead us in the correct direction in the future.

    So, while disappointed in the specs of Aeon's Tabor board, and the inability to find another alternative, I can at least buy a new system (hopefully soon) and then sit and wait for an eventual migration.
    Since the decision to make this move has already commenced, and the competition continues to focus on PPCs, I'm comfortable with this situation.

    [ Edited by Jim 01.12.2016 - 16:19 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.12.16 - 22:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> does Grunch automatically update its repository database?

    >> No.

    > Grunch databases get updated by Grunch aslong as someone bothered to update them.

    As far as I can see, the current version of the official Grunch repository database (i.e. the database which also contains the list of known 3rd party databases) is more than a year old, and that database seems only contained in the Grunch archive and not available separately online for easy and fast update by geit. So yes, the official Grunch repository database gets updated by Grunch every time geit is bothered to update it, which is not very often it seems. That is far from the automatic repository database update process relyt knows from GNU/Linux, as indicated by the MorphOS SDK problem he reported.
  • »01.12.16 - 23:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive?

    >> what does "third party" actually mean in Amiga context? :-)

    > Good question. I used the term to refer to some organization not originally affiliated with
    > Commodore/Amiga who produces compatible hardware.

    Using this definition, every "Amiga" hardware released since the demise of Commodore has been "third party" :-)
    Btw, in the cases of PPC-based hardware, it's not the hardware that is (somewhat) compatible but the OS.
  • »02.12.16 - 00:23
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 984 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> does Grunch automatically update its repository database?

    >> No.

    > Grunch databases get updated by Grunch aslong as someone bothered to update them.

    As far as I can see, the current version of the official Grunch repository database (i.e. the database which also contains the list of known 3rd party databases) is more than a year old, and that database seems only contained in the Grunch archive and not available separately online for easy and fast update by geit. So yes, the official Grunch repository database gets updated by Grunch every time geit is bothered to update it, which is not very often it seems. That is far from the automatic repository database update process relyt knows from GNU/Linux, as indicated by the MorphOS SDK problem he reported.


    Well, if the developers provide proper version information when updating an archive, there is no need for updating the database.

    Updates are only needed, when some URL gets unavailable. Also every developer can maintain (update) his software repository on his own, without me involved. It just needs one initial change to add a developer and thats is.

    Also I updated the database last month (??) to add jpv as developer. Also the database is updated separatly from the main archive.

    [ Edited by geit 02.12.2016 - 00:57 ]
  • »02.12.16 - 00:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have OS4 Classic & OS4FE

    Is that two versions? OS4.1FE is also avalable for "Classic" Amiga, I think.
  • »02.12.16 - 00:58
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  • Just looking around
    relyt
    Posts: 20 from 2014/6/5
    From: Lyons, KS, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive?

    >> what does "third party" actually mean in Amiga context? :-)

    > Good question. I used the term to refer to some organization not originally affiliated with
    > Commodore/Amiga who produces compatible hardware.

    Using this definition, every "Amiga" hardware released since the demise of Commodore has been "third party" :-)

    Understood. :)

    Quote:

    Btw, in the cases of PPC-based hardware, it's not the hardware that is (somewhat) compatible but the OS.

    I think it depends on perspective. I see what you mean. I guess I'm saying that to some degree, the software may influence hardware selection. This is purely opinion. Anyway, point taken.
    UDP packet bar walks a into.
  • »02.12.16 - 01:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11592 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Updates are only needed, when some URL gets unavailable.

    ...or when URL still works but points to an outdated archive (as is the case with the MorphOS SDK being loaded from MorphOS Files).

    > I updated the database last month (??) [...]. Also the database is updated
    > separatly from the main archive.

    Thanks for correction. I didn't know that.
  • »02.12.16 - 01:06
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1244 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: Is that two versions? OS4.1FE is also avalable for "Classic" Amiga, I think.

    Yes, TWO versions, as originally OS4 was released, eventually, with an off-shoot version to support Classic PPC hardware, such as the Phase5 PPC hardware (CyberStorm & Blizzard PPC hardware), which was all but useless, but eventually got a Feb2008 'fix/update' which wasn't much better, and that was followed, quite some time later, by the OS4FE (Final Edition) which was for Classic hardware as well, but was released at the same time as the other AOne (Sam-xxx) and other NG Amiga PPC hardware version of OS4FE.

    Andreas, I thought you'd know that already, as you're hot-stuff on your Amiga infomation, but were you off sick that day, or have you just been day-dreaming again? 8-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.17,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5.
  • »02.12.16 - 01:43
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