Hi everyone.

My name is Tyler. I'm relatively new to MorphOS and this community. I've been aware of the operating system's existence since version 3.4; I installed it on an eMac, and tinkered awhile, but never did pay for a registered copy. I wasn't sure that I was committed to having a eMac sitting on my desk, or whether I was ready to drop the money for a keyfile. I had read that the G4 Mac Mini was an ideal piece of hardware for MorphOS anyway. So, I waited...

Last year, I came across a Mac Mini G4 on eBay for a cheap price and was pleased to find out that it was the 1.5 GHz silent upgrade model. After putting OS X on it and realizing how slow it was, I purchased a keyfile and the Mini became my MorphOS machine.

I'm impressed with the design of MorphOS, but as someone who has never used Amigas (Apple // instead and then Windows) or an Amiga-like platform, there are a few idiosyncrasies that I'm still getting used to:

iconify vs. minimize (Can you iconify to a panel instead of the desktop?)
Why the Boot directory is visible on my desktop.
Work directory - What's it for?
There are probably other things...

I'm likely different from most of you in that I don't have an exact need to use an Amiga compatible platform. I found myself here because I was looking for alternative operating systems for PowerPC Macs. What I've seen is a small, yet connected global community. And I understand the developers are a talented - and approachable - crew. I felt compelled to support them and to also learn something new in the process. So, here I am with my Mac Mini G4 and the desire to become more familiar with the MorphOS/Amiga world.

I'm curious to know what hardware you all are using to run MorphOS and how long the PowerPC platform will remain relevant to this community. I have a few other, faster PowerPC computers. Also, is MorphOS the main operating system for some of you? Any recommendations for essential applications for a new guy like me?

I'm sure many of my questions have been answered before, but a search didn't yield anything relevant. It's possible my queries weren't worded correctly.

[ Edited by relyt 26.11.2016 - 20:26 ]

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Hi tyler, and hope the learning curve has been fairly straightforward for you, so far. Welcome aboard
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No, just iconify to the desktop with MorphOS. However, you can 'shrink' a window, using the next to right most right hand top corner gadget in a window, or you can choose to move it off to the side/top/bottom of the screen, so it's basically out of view, you'd probably need to adjust the System Preferences to do that - when you have opened the Prefs GUI, click on IControl, and choose the TAB > Screens and Desktop, and then change the options for . . . . When dragging windows, which is fairly simple/straightforward to change.
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The boot directory is not a hidden device, and I am not sure if it can be hidden anyway or if there is a 'flag' that can allow this feature for HFS partitions under MorphOS, and in any case why would you want/need to do that anyway?
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The Work partition/directory is for general use/storage for the files related to applications - though this is not 'set in stone' and you can use it for whatever you want, such as downloaded files, database files, spreadsheets, photos, games . . . heck, anything you want to use it for.

The partition 'Work' can, of course, be renamed to anything you want to have it named as - Right-click for options Menu Icons>Rename (CMD+r/R), but originally with the early Classic Amiga the Work Partition was created by the installer software as the secondary partition, and many users still like this secondary partition/directory to be named 'Work' - nostalgic reasons I suppose.

I most often change the name to something else when I setup an Amiga system, and I don't use the name 'Work' for my partitions, but it's a personal preference I suppose. Just name it to whatever you want it to be called.
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I'm going to leave that question to be answered by one of the development team to answer, as I don't have a crystal ball, and definitely not a pair of them.
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I use it for most of my daily computer use, but not work, as there are still not enough Office applications of sufficient maturity and competence to allow this, but you can always dual-boot back to Mac OSX for anything you are more familiar with if you need to.

I can use OWB for most of my home web-browsing, and SCANdal for my scanning requirements, and the Beta printing system that uses "USBPAR:" device by Zukow allows me to print from PageStream, including virtually anything else on MorphOS or that is a PDF to my HP 2500 Colour Laserjet from my Mac Mini 1.5GHz, though virtually any capable PostScript printer will also work with MorphOS.

I also use a program called 'PageStream' version 4.1.5.6 which serves me well to write virtually any document I want but it requires registration with the PageStream website, if it is still available to register.

If you've not installed the Chrysalis v3.9.2.iso then you might consider downloading that and seeing what's on offer. Some users can't live without it, I'd be one of those, but some users just don't like it as far as I understand, but for me - what's not to like.

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It's a question of what you want to use MorphOS for - Office, Games, Graphics, etc.

There is a wealth of software from the Classic Amiga era that is supported within MorphOS, and lots more that's been adapted from the Open Source community for MorphOS.

If you're unfamiliar with them then take a look at:

Aminet - as there are many files there to browse that work with MorphOS, and of course
MorphOS Files - for native coded MorphOS utilities, appplications, games, etc.
MorphOS Library - the MorphOS library - where there is a plethora of information to be found
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Ask any question you like, as we all want everyone who uses MorphOS to enjoy using it, so ask as many questions as you like . . within reason.

Hope that's enough information for the moment for your needs.

You can "put away" (from centextmenu) your Boot partition making it only vissible inside the "MyMorphos".

Iconify to panel is something I allways thought a good idea, but I just don't have the time atm to implement it, but it should be possible without changing anything outside Ambient.

> Why the Boot directory is visible on my desktop.

This partition is visible because the 'automatically mount partition' option is enabled for it in HDConfig. Simply disable the option to keep the partition from auto-mounting.

> I'm curious to know what hardware you all are using to run MorphOS

When 2000 registrations were reached 3 years ago, the MorphOS Team published statistics about the registered machines. Unfortunately, they didn't do the same when 3000 registrations were reached a year ago, as that would certainly have shown a wider adoption of G5 machines (support for these was still limited 3 years ago).

> Aminet - as there are many files there to browse that work with MorphOS

...or http://morphos.aminet.net to filter for MorphOS-specific (and generic) files.

> MorphOS Files - for native coded MorphOS utilities, appplications, games, etc.

Although that site is still linked from MorphZone as the official repository, it's worth noting that it has been abandoned almost a year ago due to the maintainer leaving MorphOS. The site still works, but last upload was in January 2016, which could lead to the wrong conclusion there was no software written/ported for MorphOS since.
Following the demise of the MorphOS Files site, the MorphOS Storage site has been established half a year ago.

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I guess I figured the Boot directory was something I didn't need to meddle with. Is there a reason I would need to?

I appreciate all the helpful information and links.

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You can amend the boot sequence for a Dual-boot system, so that either the Mac OSX partition boots first or, like me, have the MorphOS partition boot first, but apart from that I'm not sure there is any need to change anything, it's basically only there to allow the OpenFirmware to address the 'alien' SFS filesystem to boot MorphOS instead of having a HFS+ Journaled HDD solely for Mac OSX, AKAIK.
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You're very welcome, at least from me, and the other responses from Kronos, and Andreas Wolf were also very interesting for me, and hopefully for you as well. Thanks guys.

Welcome to the MorphOS community Tyler. As we have probably less than 50 registered MorphOS users within the USA, I am always glad to read that we have another new user join our tiny community, and specially one who is not a previous Amiga user, as this shows that MorphOS is interesting enough to gain some new users from outside the few million former Amiga users.

I am an Amiga user since 1986, which was my first personal computer, and I have been promoting MorphOS use, trying to increase our user base by demonstrating my several MorphOS systems at the yearly AmiWest Show in Sacramento, California (Efika, 1.42GHz eMac & iBook (both donated as a raffle prizes during separate past AmiWest shows), 1.5GHz G4 MacMini, dual 1.42GHz G4 MDD PowerMac converted to single 1.25GHz G4, which has been over-clocked to 1.5GHz, 15" 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook (gifted to a friend in France), 17" 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook, and lastly my dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac). I also have a defective dual 2.5GHz G5 PowerMac that has motherboard damage which prevents one of the two G5 CPUs from being used, and a 2nd dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac, that have unregistered versions of MorphOS installed, which will likely be gifted to friends, raffled as prizes, or sold, in the near future.

I am interested to know what your reason(s) is/are for wanting to use older PPC Mac computers, which led you to find out about MorphOS? Are you a programmer perhaps, who like coding for the PPC architecture more than the x86/x64 architecture, or are you a Mac user who preferred using MacOS versions previous to MacOSX, and therefore prefer the PPC architecture for that reason? Being part of such a small computer community, we are always in need of more programmers, which is why I ask about your background.

In any event, welcome again and I am glad you have found your way here, and hope that we can answer all of your questions, so you can get the maximum enjoyment from using your MorphOS system. I don't know how long MorphOS for PPC will be supported by the official MorphOS Dev. Team members, but I would guess that support will continue for many years into the future, as porting, or recreating MorphOS to run on x64 will likely take a long time. I think it is official that the developers intend to add memory protection and SMP to the x64 version of MorphOS, which will make it different (and better) than our current PPC version, which is closely tied to supporting legacy Amiga software. The x64 version of MorphOS will likely only be able to run legacy Amiga 68k software by using UAE.

If you are ever able to make it to Sacramento some October, to attend one of the annual AmiWest Shows, please introduce yourself to me at the MorphOS display table.

>> Is there a reason I would need to?

> You can amend the boot sequence for a Dual-boot system, so that either the
> Mac OSX partition boots first or, like me, have the MorphOS partition boot first

Isn't that specified in OpenFirmware? Or how'd you need to change anything on the (MorphOS) Boot partition for this?

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I'm surprised to learn that there are only around 50 registered MorphOS users here in the states. Though, I guess it makes sense. Articles I've read (will have to cite later) say that the Amiga platform was far more popular in Europe than the U.S. I watched the Amiga launch event from 1985 on YouTube. To me, that machine was way ahead of its time. But, I still don't understand why the Amiga never took off in the U.S. marketplace.

About me: I was born in '86. My parents are babyboomers who had no desire to use computers. So, my computing experience began with playing educational games on our classroom's Apple //e. Number Munchers and Oregon Trail, anyone? From there, all computer use was done at school; my parent's didn't buy a home PC until 1998. As you probably can guess, I grew up pretty much using Windows. I've built a few PCs in my life and have repaired some vintage computers. I'm no electronics guru. However, I am a tinkerer and I like to learn.

I didn't use a Mac for the first time until 2011. I was browsing Craigslist and came across two iMac G5's for an incredibly low price, so I bought them and sold one for the price I paid for both. This is when I first learned about PowerPC vs. Intel. No big, right? In 2011, PowerPC Macs were still somewhat supported by Apple as long as you were running 10.5.

Anyway, in my quest to learn more about Macs, I wandered into a rabbit hole. I read about Apple's history. I read about the architecture changes. I learned that there were many who collected vintage computers. In an age when PowerPC was already dying, I kept on. It's largely because new Macs were out of my price range at that time, but I also like the designs from the PowerPC era.

I sold the second iMac G5, but have long since acquired a C64 (the first of my vintage computer collection), C128, a few Power Mac G4s, a couple of Power Mac G5s, a couple of eMacs, an Apple //e and IIGS, and several 68k machines (NeXTstation is the most notable, I guess). I'm not sure what compelled me to begin collecting vintage computers. A part of me thinks it's because even though I grew up in a time when this technology was new, I missed a large part of the experience of early personal computing because it wasn't available to me then. It wasn't until 1997 that I first accessed the World Wide Web. Fast forward 17 years, I found myself looking for alternative operating systems for PowerPC Macs. That is how found MorphOS, and I guess another rabbit hole.

Am I developer? No I'm not, but I want to learn. My career is in telecommunications. I get to touch some pretty expensive systems, but I know just enough about them to be dangerous. At 30 years old, I'm working to complete my undergrad degree in computer networking and telecommunications with emphasis in web development. It feels like I'm way behind the curve and I'm trying to catch up as quickly as I can. Rural Tennessee (where I grew up) is a far cry from the west coast.

I guess I'm here because I got tired of the mainstream. Everything is upgraded and replaced so quickly. It's nice to see a global community come together to keep vintage hardware relevant by maintaining an operating system that fits into current computing paradigms, but also allows one to slip back to yesteryear. To some degree, I get to see what I missed out on some 20 years ago. But, I also get to learn something new and feed the tinkerer who lives within me.

If I ever get out to Sacramento to attend AmiWest, I'll be sure to introduce myself. Thanks, to all of you, for the warm welcome.

Now... one last question (famous last words):

As I understand, a directory without an accompanying .info file is not visible in icon view. How does a guy create a .info file to assign an icon to a directory, and where is this .info file stored? I feel like this question is a bit elementary, yet might not make sense. I'll do my best to reword it or be more detailed if I need to. Is there a directory where icons are stored?

And so I'm clear - Would it be accurate to call Ambient the file manager as well as the desktop environment? For example, a Linux distro may use Gnome as the desktop environment, but may use Nautilus or Thunar as the file manager. Again, just trying to understand how MorphOS is organized. Thanks again.

[ Edited by relyt 28.11.2016 - 19:55 ]

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Yeah, and Boot:, System: and Work: are actually partitions (drives), which each contains their own sub directories, so not just directories in a single tree like in *nix systems. It sounds a bit wrong to call them directories IMHO :)

Here's a detailed guide how to hide the boot partition:
http://library.morph.zone/Getting_Started#Hiding_the_Boot_Image_Partition_on_Macs

I guess the whole article would be a good read for relyt.

[ Edited by jPV 28.11.2016 - 07:56 ]

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Not only the directory, but the files as well. Unless you switch to "all files" view mode, that is.

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The easiest way to create an icon to a file/directory is to rename a .png file to file.info or directory.info accordingly. Or you could just open information window for this particular file/directory and then drag&drop a .png file (or any of the existing icons) on the default icon shown in this window. Other ways include using some icon editors, but that's because MorphOS supports not only png icons, but also some classic Amiga icon formats.

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There's no 'central' directory for icons. They are stored together with files. The 'disk.info' is in the root directory of the disk, while other directory icons are 'outside' of the directories they are connected to. The icons for files are stored together with their files. When you switch to 'List' mode and show all files you'll see the .info files as well.

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You can still view them in icon view by selecting "All files" as the sub mode (from the rightmost cycle gadget on the window or by right clicking window's dragbar or empty area).


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A .info file is stored on the same directory with the actual file or directory. You'd have "mydir" and "mydir.info" next to each other in the same directory, and you can see them separately if viewing an Ambient window in the list mode, or by listing the files from the shell with the Dir or List commands, for example.

There are many ways to create a new .info file. Basically you could just copy and rename an existing icon from the shell or Ambient, but maybe the easiest way would be to open the icon information window (right click the file/dir or press the command-i combination when the wanted file/dir is selected) and drag a suitable icon from any other dir/file there and click the save button


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My main MorphOS setup is still Mac mini 1.5GHz, but I also have PB1.67GHz and couple IBooks for portability. And recently bought a 2.0 GHz G5 machine for the future if something happens to my mini (I still like the small and energy efficient design).

I've been using Mac mini from 2009 and I guess it still goes for years... and then I can extend PPC usage with my G5 machine. So I'm not in that hurry to make switch to other architectures :P

MorphOS is my main operating system at home and I can do almost everything I need with it. Of course you occasionally need some more mainstream compatible systems too, but I love MorphOS for daily use.

For the software I'd recommend to take a look at Grunch first, and only after that looking those other mentioned software sources.
Here are some tips: Installing, Updating, and Configuring Essential Software

[ Edited by jPV 28.11.2016 - 08:40 ]

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Still using a venerable Pegasos2/G4 as a main computer; doing a lot of dev on it.
I also have a PowerBook to be able to use MorphOS when I'm not at home.

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Welcome.

I too had only silly Windows 3.1 as a small child, even when Windows 95 and Windows 98 was released. And when we finally got Windows 98, it was already outdated as well. Eventually we got several old IBM computers. Many did not work. Among them were several IBM 286, 386, and old IBM computers (5100?) that weighed a ton, and a few other IBMs, and they were still able to print to a Cannon BubbleJet despite the printer being newer. These computers used Dos Shell. I don't think you can get a new printer to connect to an old computer. Unfortunately I no longer have these. I do not have any room for them and have only become interested in laptop computers. (And about laptop computers: It seems I only want laptops with giant screens and full size built in keyboards).

The only time I was around Macs is in elementary school had a computer lab of Pizza Boxes and even Apple branded printers. These computers had every possible feature, both hardware and software. The hardware had speakers, microphone, and the graphics appeared to be much better. The OS was much nicer, much more responsive, and contained After Dark screensavers and plenty of software and games of much higher quality compared to Windows.

Later, as an adult: I wanted to have an Apple computer, and thinking that the experience would be similar. It was not. The Internet is now designed to make these old computers useless for Internet Web Browsing. That was when I decided to try Mac OS "10" (Mac OS X, now deceptively called MacOS) which is absolutely nothing at all similar to original Mac OS. Instead of fixing the problems with Mac OS, they decide to use a *Nix version. They have this thing called "TruBluEnvironment" (or something) which was unstable. Mac OS X is very slow, and especially on Blue And White G3 ... which was very difficult to install Mac OS X on it. Once "Classilla" was added, then I was able to use the Internet on Mac OS 9.2.2 again, and switched back to 9.2.2. Unfortunately Classilla is no longer updated.

I still have G3 PowerBooks, G3 iBooks, and G3 iMacs to use the decade and a half of software and games, and even aftermarket software and games. I was still curious to see if anything similar to Original Mac OS is currently maintained.

And that is how and why I am here. Also, I do not like how mainstream operating systems expect you to replace your computer every few months only for an even slower operating system.

I have a iBook G4, a PowerBook G4, and enjoy MorphOS. I am also impressed that MorphOS focuses on performance and not gimmicks. It is the future of computing, or would be if more people joined.

Grunch is a software manager. But there is other software that has not been available with Grunch. I enjoy Cinnamon Writer. I also enjoy the name. "Cinnamon Writer".

[ Edited by In_Correct 28.11.2016 - 07:11 ]

> Mac OS "10" (Mac OS X, now deceptively called MacOS)

Even worse, it's called "macOS" now (after a 4-year "OS X" period) :-)

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Thank you for the clarification. :)

Thanks for the detailed reply to my questions about your background, and how you came to be a MorphOS user. It is always interesting to me to find out how and why non-Amiga users became MorphOS users.

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Looks like you're from around the Silicon Prairie. I lived in Denton for a few years, back in the mid-2000s. Loved it.

Agreed that OS X (macOS or whatever the heck it's branded this decade) is slow. It runs insanely slow on my 2013 iMac. For $1300, I'm not pleased with its performance, and it gets worse with each update. And, each update includes new features that I don't care about. But, it's not all about me...

Did Cameron Kaiser stop development of Classilla? I'm sure TenFourFox has been keeping him busy in addition to is professional and personal life. Anyway, sounds like we followed similar paths to wind up here.

I'd like to see more mainstream software ported to MorphOS, namely OpenOffice/LibreOffice and Thunderbird (or another email client). That's really my only gripe. Perhaps I just need to familiarize myself with what software is available (thanks to the links provided by you all) and stop crying. Beyond Cinnamon Writer, are there other recent software projects for MorphOS? I wish I had some programming talent to offer...

Code:

...but that's all I've got.

Unless something changes, I think the future of mainstream computing will be similar to what we already do with TV: consume content. I hope I'm wrong.

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No problem. Apologies if my story wasn't very epic, and more than you bargained for. ;)

I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

[ Edited by relyt 28.11.2016 - 20:55 ]

>> Unfortunately Classilla is no longer updated.

> Did Cameron Kaiser stop development of Classilla?

From 2½ months ago:

"just a note to Classilla users. I do have some work done on a 9.3.4 which fixes some JavaScript bugs, has additional stelae for some other site-specific workarounds and (controversially, because this will impact performance) automatically fixes screen update problems with many sites using CSS overflow. (They still don't layout properly, but they will at least scroll mostly correctly.) I will try to push that out as a means of keeping the fossil fed."
http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2016/09/ars-technicas-notes-from-os-9.html

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At least a start.

But if you like to get into coding I (kind of) recomend the language Hollywood.
Pro: It's really easy to get reasonale results out of it and It's really multiplatform (you can run your programs on MorphOS, but also all other Amiga flavours, OS X, Win, Linux and Android (Android is a bit special though). And it has a very good support
Con: Many things are a bit slow and, costs some money.

I almost gave up C++ for Hollywood. For the occasional coding I do it leads me to fatser results, for the trade off of not always being elegant and a bit blown binaries.

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Yes. And I was born in Denton. It has changed since the mid 2000s.

One of the things that Cameron Kaiser did to Classilla was make it a "mobile" browser and then left it at that, stating that it is easier on older computers. I viewed this method as a shortcut and prefer he did not think of the mobile browser.

Fortunately MorphOS supports slightly newer computers and does not support computers designed to natively boot Mac OS 9.2.2. It is almost as if MorphOS picks up where Mac OS 9.2.2 left off. And it's Internet browser Oddysey is slightly more updated (and completely Desktop). If computers for MorphOS are not new enough, there is an eventual QBox for X64 ISA and AMD64 ISA and hopefully new 17+ inch laptop with full keyboard which would require software porting. Ideally I would like to see QBox be made for Power and PowerPC and ARM and MIPS as well. Perhaps I will have to do it. But I too am a very unskilled programmer at the moment.

I only mentioned Cinnamon Writer because it had to be installed separately. And I like the name of it It also matches the pattern to name software from food.

> MorphOS [...] does not support computers designed to natively boot Mac OS 9.2.2.
> It is almost as if MorphOS picks up where Mac OS 9.2.2 left off.

MorphOS-supported Mac: pre-installed Mac OS version
PowerMac G4 AGP Graphics (PowerMac3,1): 8.5 or 8.6
PowerMac G4 Gigabit Ethernet (PowerMac3,3): 9.0.4
PowerMac G4 Cube (PowerMac5,1): 9.0.4 or 9.1
PowerMac G4 Digital Audio (PowerMac3,4): 9.1 (or 10.0.3)
PowerMac G4 QuickSilver (PowerMac3,5): 9.2 (or 10.0.4)
PowerMac G4 QuickSilver 2002 (PowerMac3,5): 9.2.2 (or 10.1.2)
PowerMac G4 MDD (PowerMac3,6): 9.2.2 (or 10.2)
PowerBook G4 Titanium (PowerBook3,5): 9.2.2 (or 10.2.1)

As you can see, MorphOS does even support computers designed to natively boot Mac OS 8.5 :-)

@Wolfi

You didn't read his nick -> logik fail

I'll agree that OSX is somewhat bloated, but objections to it being called MacOS baffle me. Frankly I consider that marketing shift to be a negative. Until OS10, I had no use what so ever for MacOS.
OSX's BSD base is definitely superior to earlier forms of MacOS.
Its one of the few things I will give Jobs a nod for.