AROS for 68k question
  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Google returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire.
    On all of them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz.
    You have to use google again.
    Hint: use words sysspeed vampire and then check pages.



    does it?

    http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=35

    from december so the core is even faster now

    I found a polish thread where the 95 Mips are mentioned... it seems to happen when you use higher resolutions and more colours. I remember discussions that it slows down the system a bit, I think related how it (RTG with framebuffer) is implemented in FPGA. But I assume they are already working on a solution to solve that problem. And you still miss the point... where is the 68060-80 accellerator with graphic card you can buy? And if something is offered on ebay it is in price range of a X64 high-equipped desktop or notebook. People are interested in upgrading their old amigas so there is no other option. And if making a realistic rational decision buying PPC would be as rational as buying a Vampire, wouldn´t it?



    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 11.06.2016 - 19:39 ]
  • »11.06.16 - 16:17
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Google [...] returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire. On
    >>> all of them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz. You have to use google again.

    >> No matter how often I use Google, it will always return screenshots where
    >> Vampire2/Apollo is faster than 80 MHz 68060 in the benchmarks I asked you about.
    >> http://www.google.com/search?q=sysspeed+vampire&tbm=isch

    > Google returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire. On all of
    > them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz. You have to use google again.
    > Hint: use words sysspeed vampire and then check pages.

    No matter how often I use Google, it will always return screenshots where Vampire2/Apollo is faster than 80 MHz 68060 in the benchmarks I asked you about.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=sysspeed+vampire&tbm=isch
  • »11.06.16 - 19:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 212 from 2015/8/23
    Dear Andreas You use google in wrong way.
    In way You use google it not return single screenshot from sysspeed on vampire where vampire is faster than 68060 80 MHz.
    You have to try again.
  • »12.06.16 - 12:42
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Dear Andreas You use google in wrong way.
    In way You use google it not return single screenshot from sysspeed on vampire where vampire is faster than 68060 80 MHz.
    You have to try again.



    then link one screenshot to proof your claims instead of lecturing Andreas

    please...

    and still you do not answer my comment...

    please inform us where you can buy 68060 accellerators in the same price range as Vampire

    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 12.06.2016 - 15:51 ]
  • »12.06.16 - 12:49
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 212 from 2015/8/23
    When Vampire is connected to LCD by HD performance drop significantly below 68060 80 MHz.
    And public core still has no fpu.
    Is is cheaper than old cards but it is still slower.
  • »12.06.16 - 12:53
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    When Vampire is connected to LCD by HD performance drop significantly below 68060 80 MHz.
    And public core still has no fpu.
    Is is cheaper than old cards but it is still slower.



    i already explained why this is the case... before it was a lot faster

    I am pretty sure that they are already working on solutions to avoid that. Internal version already has FPU. It is WIP (Work in progress) they activate more and more features after being proved as working and stable
  • »12.06.16 - 12:56
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You use google in wrong way. In way You use google it not return single screenshot from
    > sysspeed on vampire where vampire is faster than 68060 80 MHz. You have to try again.

    In the way I use Google, it returns many screenshots from SysSpeed on Vampire2/Apollo where Vampire is faster than 80 MHz 68060 in the benchmarks I asked you about. You have to use Google the right way.
  • »12.06.16 - 19:34
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    When Vampire is connected to LCD by HD performance drop significantly below 68060 80 MHz.
    And public core still has no fpu.
    Is is cheaper than old cards but it is still slower.



    As others have said, the Vampire2 is still a "work in progress", on hardware that gets bigger, faster, and cheaper each year. The Vampire2 core can be moved to any other FPGA (unless I misunderstand how FPGA's work), so even if the Vampire2 isn't faster than the best 68060 accelerators for the Amiga of our past, it surely will be in the near future.

    It seems to me that you have some axe to grind against Gunnar, which is why you try to discredit the benchmarks of the Apollo core and Vampire2 board. Gunnar does have a tendency to over hype things a bit from his days working on the Natami project and now on the Apollo team, but I don't think he does it for any malicious purpose to trick other users into buying anything. He is just very enthusiastic about his hobby work and wants approval and recognition from others in our community, so maybe he exaggerates some statements, from time to time.

    Like many other Amiga users, I look forward to seeing how far the Apollo team can go with their work on duplicating, and possibly enhancing 680x0 performance using FPGA chips.
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  • »12.06.16 - 20:26
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    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 212 from 2015/8/23
    Just lend vampire from someone, do some test and You get that yet another time gunnar von boehn lie about performance.
    It is still below 68060 80 MHz.
    After many years of cheating, man years of false promises that soon natami/vampire will be faster than ppc , there is no progress in performance.
    As in 2008 in 2016 68060 is faster than natami/vampire.
    natami/vampire is 2 times slower than 19 years old p5 cards for amiga.
    And even slower than good old HP PA-RISC 100 MHz used in some commodore prototypes.
  • »13.06.16 - 06:30
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Just lend vampire from someone, do some test and You get that yet another time gunnar von boehn lie about performance.
    It is still below 68060 80 MHz.
    After many years of cheating, man years of false promises that soon natami/vampire will be faster than ppc , there is no progress in performance.
    As in 2008 in 2016 68060 is faster than natami/vampire.
    natami/vampire is 2 times slower than 19 years old p5 cards for amiga.
    And even slower than good old HP PA-RISC 100 MHz used in some commodore prototypes.




    you repeat the same all the time... you miss the point

    at least most comments of Vampire owners I read were very happy about it. It depends on expectations. I have written why it slowed down, before all benchmarks were faster. I even put a link with a screenshot showing that. You did not only repeating it. Now I say that (surprise surprise) modern hardware is cheaper and faster than your beloved PPC and all OS there are better usable because of more drivers and software. Both PPC (MorphOS and AmigaOS) and Vampire are pure hobby, why do you only bash Gunnar then and not a-eon/Hyperion or MorphOS team doing such stupid decisions from a business point of view? As Dave mentioned Gunnar has a tendency to overhype his work but at least they are now offering something people want to buy. You are not interested because being happy with your either ageing or overpriced new PPC hardware, me not too because I am happy using the modern hardware I already own for my purposes. But let others have their fun. Your crusade is becoming boring already, do something constructive and learn programming.

    http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=953467#post953467

    Citat from a new Vampire owner:
    "I am happy"

    you should inform him that he has to be angry against gunnar and unhappy with it. He seems not to know :-)



    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 13.06.2016 - 12:02 ]
  • »13.06.16 - 08:33
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
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    > HP PA-RISC 100 MHz used in some commodore prototypes

    Hombre made it to prototype stage?
  • »13.06.16 - 08:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Is it even important that it's faster than a 060? I mean, you get a small, not Zorro dependent accelerator, gfx card and sound card all in one for only 150€. Even if it gets "only" as fast as a 060@50 MHz it will still be a bargain. Not to mention how hot a 060 gets.

    The Vampire will play DOOM and MP3 files just fine.

    [edit] But all the screenshots I've seen shows it's faster than the 060. I can't find proof of otherwise. Can you please provide some links?

    [ Edited by Yasu 13.06.2016 - 13:04 ]
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  • »13.06.16 - 09:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    Intuition
    Posts: 1097 from 2013/5/24
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    You must have a lot of time on your hands now you're no longer HyperionMP eh Ben? ;)
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  • »13.06.16 - 09:02
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
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    > no longer HyperionMP

    AFAIK, Ben Hermans is still both a shareholder and a director of Hyperion Entertainment CVBA. Or are you referring to the "HyperionMP" corporate account on Amiga-related forum sites?
  • »13.06.16 - 09:49
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
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    > all the screenshots I've seen shows it's faster than the 060.

    Same here.

    > I can't find proof of otherwise. Can you please provide some links?

    I'll be sore if he gives you any links. Everytime I asked him for links he just said I'd have to improve my Google-fu ;-)
  • »13.06.16 - 09:56
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4956 from 2009/1/28
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    "...have an axe to grind with Gunnar..."

    You'd have to get to know the guy.
    He can be pretty easy to NOT get along with.

    And, until now, he has spent years touting developments that were never released to the public.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »13.06.16 - 10:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:
    "...have an axe to grind with Gunnar..."

    You'd have to get to know the guy.
    He can be pretty easy to NOT get along with.

    And, until now, he has spent years touting developments that were never released to the public.


    if you refer to Natami the apollo core was started for Natami project so time is not wasted

    in opposite to most others who just talked he finally delivered. Sometimes he is a little too overoptimistic and even euphoric about his projects and certainly also sometimes arrogant but nevertheless he delivered and at least the Vampire customers posting are all happy with it and happy with progress. That the Natami project never became reality had much to do with attitudes of the developer behind it, but that is past. Two components from this project used in Vampire are the apollo core and the chipset replacement developed for Natami.
  • »13.06.16 - 12:15
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4956 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:
    "...have an axe to grind with Gunnar..."

    You'd have to get to know the guy.
    He can be pretty easy to NOT get along with.

    And, until now, he has spent years touting developments that were never released to the public.


    if you refer to Natami the apollo core was started for Natami project so time is not wasted

    in opposite to most others who just talked he finally delivered. Sometimes he is a little too overoptimistic and even euphoric about his projects and certainly also sometimes arrogant but nevertheless he delivered and at least the Vampire customers posting are all happy with it and happy with progress. That the Natami project never became reality had much to do with attitudes of the developer behind it, but that is past. Two components from this project used in Vampire are the apollo core and the chipset replacement developed for Natami.




    No one is more surprised than me that "he finally delivered".
    I can ignore the attitude, it kind of reminds me of Jens'.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »13.06.16 - 12:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    @Jim

    Yes both are very skilled developers but would need someone for PR
  • »13.06.16 - 12:52
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    No one is more surprised than me that "he finally delivered".
    I can ignore the attitude, it kind of reminds me of Jens'.


    Having met both these men in person at past AmiWest shows, I would have to disagree fairly strongly with that statement, unless you want to narrow it down to a few similar sub-sets of their attitudes and give examples.

    For my example, I have never seen or heard of Jens "over hyping" any of his projects, with enthusiastic over the top, or overly optimistic predictions or statements in forum threads, or in person. If you are referring to occasions when both have displayed arrogant behavior, I think that many/most really good developers have a superiority complex to some degree or other.

    Edit: I admire both men for their talent and for continuing to work on and produce products for our tiny community.

    [ Edited by amigadave 13.06.2016 - 14:39 ]
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  • »13.06.16 - 19:34
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
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    > Having met both these men in person at past AmiWest shows

    Gunnar "BigGun" von Boehn was at AmiWest? Which year was that?
  • »13.06.16 - 22:49
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
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    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Having met both these men in person at past AmiWest shows

    Gunnar "BigGun" von Boehn was at AmiWest? Which year was that?


    You know my memory is very faulty, specially for dates of events that weren't that special for me to remember (not meaning that meeting Gunnar wasn't special), so I may be wrong on this, but I believe it was the 2013 AmiWest that Gunnar attended.

    Edit: I'll be embarrassed if I have confused Gunnar with someone else, but that might be the case. I may be thinking of one of the AROS programmers, instead of Gunnar, now that I think about it more. Getting older is so much fun.

    [ Edited by amigadave 13.06.2016 - 23:13 ]
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  • »14.06.16 - 04:08
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
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    >> Gunnar "BigGun" von Boehn was at AmiWest? Which year was that?

    > I may be wrong on this, but I believe it was the 2013 AmiWest that Gunnar attended.
    > Edit: I'll be embarrassed if I have confused Gunnar with someone else, but that
    > might be the case. I may be thinking of one of the AROS programmers, instead of
    > Gunnar, now that I think about it more.

    You mean Jason "Ezrec" McMullan who attended AmiWest in person in 2012 (together with Samuel "Samurai_Crow" Crow) and via video conference in 2013?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ3d5qR-Hv8 (24:05)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpQO7XSfAv4

    I can't remember ever reading anything about Gunnar attending AmiWest.
  • »14.06.16 - 07:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 180 from 2011/11/16
    @amigadave

    you mix him with Jason obviously

    I have high respect of Jens regarding his skills but I have seen him posting several times downtalking any possible competition (he tried that with Gunnar too). Latest of Jens was his "friendly email" regarding P96 that was published lately (unfortunately for him). Some praise him as a kind of hardware god doing everything just for altruism, but he is not, he is nothing else than a small businessman doing everything for profit and fearing someone else (f.e. hobby developers) could take away from his cake. That is how he presents himself in the community. Gunnar can be very arrogant too, so in a way they have similarities in their personality. And because of that I wrote they would need PR people.
  • »14.06.16 - 08:16
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
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    Samurai_Crow
    Posts: 137 from 2009/12/10
    From: Minnesota, USA
    @AmigaDave

    Are you going to Amiwest this year? I'm going to try to make it again this year. Maybe I'll even have a Vampire 500 to demonstrate. BTW, check your PM.
  • »16.06.16 - 12:08
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