AROS for 68k question
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    Natami was announced in 2008 as something faster than ppc.
    After many years of lies and false promises this crap is still two times slower than slowest ppc cards for amiga.
    Slower than commodore protypes.
    And also slower than uae from year 2000 on pc from year 2000.
    I know, some peple don't like bitter truth.
    But it's a really big disappointment.
  • »16.06.16 - 17:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Natami was announced in 2008 as something faster than ppc.

    ...than *certain* PPC. The fastest PPC is several hundred times as fast as the slowest PPC.

    > this crap is [...] Slower than commodore protypes.

    Which ones?
  • »16.06.16 - 20:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Natami was announced in 2008 as something faster than ppc.
    After many years of lies and false promises this crap is still two times slower than slowest ppc cards for amiga.
    Slower than commodore protypes.
    And also slower than uae from year 2000 on pc from year 2000.
    I know, some peple don't like bitter truth.
    But it's a really big disappointment.



    It is obviously a big disappointment for you, but not a disappointment for most other Amiga users. In fact, you are one of only a few people I have seen complain about the performance that has been shown running 68k benchmarks and software on FPGA.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »17.06.16 - 03:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Samurai_Crow wrote:
    @AmigaDave

    Are you going to Amiwest this year? I'm going to try to make it again this year. Maybe I'll even have a Vampire 500 to demonstrate. BTW, check your PM.


    Yes, see the thread I started for 2016 AmiWest Show. PM answered
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »17.06.16 - 03:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    amigadave schrieb:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Natami was announced in 2008 as something faster than ppc.
    After many years of lies and false promises this crap is still two times slower than slowest ppc cards for amiga.
    Slower than commodore protypes.
    And also slower than uae from year 2000 on pc from year 2000.
    I know, some peple don't like bitter truth.
    But it's a really big disappointment.



    It is obviously a big disappointment for you, but not a disappointment for most other Amiga users. In fact, you are one of only a few people I have seen complain about the performance that has been shown running 68k benchmarks and software on FPGA.


    he is not a buyer or user of it anyway and despite that complaining. I have read not a single buyer who were disappointed and if you are selling something buyers are much more important than people complaining who would never buy your product. The funny thing is... the same person is praising PPC instead what is in my view as "illogical" as the preference for 68k and vampire. Intead he should use standard hardware and a modern OS instead if he really insists on benchmarking and making comparationss.
  • »17.06.16 - 09:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Natami was announced in 2008 as something faster than ppc.
    After many years of lies and false promises this crap is still two times slower than slowest ppc cards for amiga.
    Slower than commodore protypes.
    And also slower than uae from year 2000 on pc from year 2000.
    I know, some peple don't like bitter truth.
    But it's a really big disappointment.





    if you talk sbout "crap" and making benchmarks then somehow I think of PPC. There were benchmarks comparing Javascript browser performance and all PPC platforms were devasteted by both Aros X86 (newest OWB version with JIT) and all modern platforms including all sort of smartphones. I know that this is not only caused by the processor but also by the lack of software support in todays world but whatever caused it, PPC is nothing else than a toy in todays terms, if you like it or nor. I can give you the link to the benchmarks if you ask to.
  • »17.06.16 - 09:21
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1319 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    After many years of lies and false promises this crap is still two times slower than slowest ppc cards for amiga.
    (...)
    And also slower than uae from year 2000 on pc from year 2000.



    There were benchmarks comparing Javascript browser performance and all PPC platforms were devasteted by both Aros X86 (newest OWB version with JIT) and all modern platforms including all sort of smartphones. (...) PPC is nothing else than a toy in todays terms, if you like it or nor. I can give you the link to the benchmarks if you ask to.

    Do you realize that you even quoted him as saying that a 16 years old x86-based computer running emulation is faster than a Vampire? I do not think he needs a lesson in the type of performance one can expect with this hardware architecture...

    Also, have you even noticed that he only mentioned PowerPC in the context of other accelerator cards that are compatible with Commodore Amiga hardware, which seems like a rather obvious and fitting point of reference when you discuss Vampire?

    For people who do not care about emulation, it does not matter how fast a Xeon processor is as long as you cannot stick one in your A600. And for those who like software emulation, ppcamiga1 already established that even a very old PC should be a fine.

    So, what was the point of your rant again?
  • »17.06.16 - 09:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    that someone praising one toy is talking down another toy

    PPC is not modern or competitive in 2016

    So Vampire is a toy for one group, PPC a toy for another. And still he nerves with his postings
  • »17.06.16 - 09:47
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Regardless of your opinion, a PPC will run circles around a 68K OR the Vampire.
    And running under Linux my 2.5 Quad core G5 is quite capable of keeping up with so called "modern" machines.

    A "toy"?
    By no ones definition but your own and you are begining to sound like an idiot.
    Do you really think major companies would be investing in Power8 hardware if it was a "toy"?

    Not only do you sound like an idiot, but an uninformed idiot as well.

    [ Edited by Jim 17.06.2016 - 12:48 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »17.06.16 - 15:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 545 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    that someone praising one toy is talking down another toy


    I knew it. You are speaking about yourself.
    Quote:


    PPC is not modern or competitive in 2016


    This is nonsense because you obviously only speak about G5 and lower. Why don't you give the same statement for an 68k processor, a C2D or an ARMv4?
    Quote:


    So Vampire is a toy for one group, PPC a toy for another.


    and AROS is a toy for the third one.
    Quote:


    And still he nerves with his postings

    You are speaking about yourself again. So why don't you get back to enjoy your toy instead of badmouthing here for another decade? Is AROS finished already? Or are you finished with AROS?
  • »20.07.16 - 17:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > badmouthing here for another decade

    He registered here less than half a decade ago :-)
  • »20.07.16 - 20:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    68060 at 60 MHz: 79.68 MIPS (= 106.24 MIPS at 80 MHz)
    Vampire2 with Apollo SILVER7: 112.95 MIPS



    If You read entire post You get that it is result in worse screen resolution that used on 060.
    And in the same screen vampire results are much worse.
  • »29.07.16 - 17:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    Olaf Schönweiss is well knowh powerpc hater.
    Like others powerpc haters Olaf Schönweiss strogly believe
    that if he make enough troubles amiga users will resign from use of better amiga than these made by commodore.

    We have 29 july 2016. 20 years ago Microsoft release Windows NT 4.0 first modern windows with well know gui AND memory protection.

    I don't understand why some idiots believe that we amiga users will be using shit like aros which is not compatible with old applications and has not memory protection.
    When on pc we may just use windows.
  • »29.07.16 - 17:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If You read entire post You get that it is result in worse
    > screen resolution that used on 060.

    Can you please quote the part that says this?
  • »29.07.16 - 20:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    "Update

    There was a suggestion from Gunnar von Boehn on the Apollo Forum, that for a test I should use the same resolution. So Vampire runs on Workbench 800x600x16bit like it was on the A2000. The result is even even worse.."
  • »29.07.16 - 20:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "Update
    > There was a suggestion from Gunnar von Boehn on the Apollo Forum, that for
    > a test I should use the same resolution. So Vampire runs on Workbench
    > 800x600x16bit like it was on the A2000. The result is even even worse.."

    This was referring to the Cinema 4D benchmark, not SysSpeed. Besides, the Vampire2/Apollo was running the higher resolution, not the A2000/68060.

    "You see clearly that the A2000 used 800x600 and the Vampire rendered on 1360x768."
    http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=71
  • »29.07.16 - 22:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    "Update

    There was a suggestion from Gunnar von Boehn on the Apollo Forum, that for a test I should use the same resolution. So Vampire runs on Workbench 800x600x16bit like it was on the A2000. The result is even even worse.."


    How can you expect any readers of this forum to believe any test results you post here, or provide links to, when you are so obviously obsessed about crusading against Gunnar and his project(s)?

    The more messages you post, the more it makes you look like someone who needs psychiatric treatment, and possibly medical supervision to make sure you don't hurt yourself or others.

    Ask yourself this question; why is that no one else is stepping forward to support your claims of non-performance, lies, and benchmarks that show the Vampire/Vampire2 projects to be useless scam products, intended to steal money from Amiga users? Why is it that so many Amiga users, and some Amiga programmers, are interested in buying, or have already purchased a Vampire, or Vampire2 board, and all of them appear to be very happy with their purchase, and the performance of the Apollo core(s)?

    You stand alone crying wolf, while everyone else who is interested, is either already enjoying their Vampire/Vampire2 boards, or waiting for their Vampire2 board to be produced and shipped to them.

    I don't really care what caused this (apparent) sickness you seem to be suffering from, but one has to wonder what happened to push you over the edge, and onto this path of less than sane behavior?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »29.07.16 - 22:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "Update
    > There was a suggestion from Gunnar von Boehn on the Apollo Forum, that for
    > a test I should use the same resolution. So Vampire runs on Workbench
    > 800x600x16bit like it was on the A2000. The result is even even worse.."

    This was referring to the Cinema 4D benchmark, not SysSpeed. Besides, the Vampire2/Apollo was running the higher resolution, not the A2000/68060.

    "You see clearly that the A2000 used 800x600 and the Vampire rendered on 1360x768."
    http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=71


    I won't waste my time looking up the forum post he is referring to, but since the A2000 does not support a screen resolution of 800x600x16bit color depth without using a graphics card, I would be very surprised if the Vampire2, with its FPGA running not only the Amiga core & 68k CPU core, plus also running some kind of graphics card emulation, could compete at all compared to an A2000 with a full 68060 and dedicated graphics card. The fact that it IS being compared to such hardware, makes the Apollo FPGA core(s) an amazing bit of programming work.

    [ Edited by amigadave 29.07.2016 - 16:50 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »29.07.16 - 22:49
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    Oh dear Dave You have problem with Your nerves.
    Get some rest.
    It is of course no secret that natami/vampire/apollo in higher resolutions suffers from a lack of bandwidth.
    And in higher resolution performance of natami/vampire/apollo really drop.
    Below 68060 80 MHz.
    There is no reason to use natami/vampire/apollo in 640x480 8bit.
    All test should be made at least at 800x600 16 bit.
  • »30.07.16 - 08:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    There is no reason to use natami/vampire/apollo in 640x480 8bit.
    All test should be made at least at 800x600 16 bit.


    Since 90% of all software ever written for the original Amiga was written to use 640x480 8bit, or LOWER resolutions and color depths, it certainly makes the MOST sense to test the Vampire boards and Apollo cores at such resolutions and color bit depths.

    You make no sense! In your lame attempts to discredit the Vampire & Vampire2 boards, you clearly don't know what other Amiga users want to use them for. Do you even own or use any Amiga, or Amiga inspired computers or software with emulation any more?

    Please go back to your Windows and Unix/Linux forums, and stop this nonsense criticizing something you have no interest in ever buying, and cannot objectively evaluate, due to your irrational feelings and behavior toward Gunnar. The only thing you are doing here is making a fool of yourself. I am done wasting my time replying to anything you have to say. If this site had a blocking feature, I would put you on the list, so I wouldn't have to see any more of your nonsense postings.

    [ Edited by amigadave 31.07.2016 - 06:01 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »31.07.16 - 11:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    Dear Dave You desperate try to convice that crap is not crap, but the the truth is vampire is crap.

    There are so many software for amiga which benefit from use of hi or true color, which makes idea of test in 8 bit only extremelly stupid.

    New hardware in 2016 should be able to use LCD in native resolutions which are much larger than 800x600 and if this natami/apollo/vampire crap has problems with bandwith even on 800x600 16 bit it means natami/apollo/vampire is worth nothing crap.

    Natami/apollo/vampire crap is bigest scam in amiga community.

    Natami crap was announced in 2008 as "amiga which commodore made if survive"
    But after many years of lies and false promises gunnar von boehn has crap which is slower than 68060 80 MHz, slower than some Commodore prototypes and almost two times slower than 19 years old ppc cards for amiga.



    [ Edited by ppcamiga1 01.08.2016 - 00:34 ]
  • »31.07.16 - 22:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 214 from 2015/8/23
    Hombre of course. natami/apollo/vampire crap is slower than good old 7100 100 MHz PA-RISC.
  • »31.07.16 - 23:31
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