• ASiegel
    Posts: 1369 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    kamelito wrote:
    Well, Intel expect Apple to move MAC to ARM as soon as 2020.

    https://www.axios.com/apple-macbook-arm-chips-ea93c38a-d40a-4873-8de9-7727999c588c.html

    As Apple use their own custom chips, it seems important to acknowledge that this step would not necessarily have wider implications for the larger ARM ecosystem.

    I found Torvald's recent comments on the relationship between developer hardware and cloud / server hardware to be interesting:
    Quote:

    Some people think that "the cloud" means that the instruction set doesn't matter. Develop at home, deploy in the cloud.

    That's bullshit. If you develop on x86, then you're going to want to deploy on x86, because you'll be able to run what you test "at home" (and by "at home" I don't mean literally in your home, but in your work environment).

    Which means that you'll happily pay a bit more for x86 cloud hosting, simply because it matches what you can test on your own local setup, and the errors you get will translate better.

    This is true even if what you mostly do is something ostensibly cross-platform like just run perl scripts or whatever. Simply because you'll want to have as similar an environment as possible,

    Which in turn means that cloud providers will end up making more money from their x86 side, which means that they'll prioritize it, and any ARM offerings will be secondary and probably relegated to the mindless dregs (maybe front-end, maybe just static html, that kind of stuff).

    Guys, do you really not understand why x86 took over the server market?

    It wasn't just all price. It was literally this "develop at home" issue.
    Thousands of small companies ended up having random small internal workloads where it was easy to just get a random whitebox PC and run some silly small thing on it yourself. Then as the workload expanded, it became a "real server". And then once that thing expanded, suddenly it made a whole lot of sense to let somebody else manage the hardware and hosting, and the cloud took over.

    Do you really not understand? This isn't rocket science. This isn't some made up story. This is literally what happened, and what killed all the RISC vendors, and made x86 be the undisputed king of the hill of servers, to the point where everybody else is just a rounding error. Something that sounded entirely fictional a couple of decades ago.

    Without a development platform, ARM in the server space is never going to make it. Trying to sell a 64-bit "hyperscaling" model is idiotic, when you don't have customers and you don't have workloads because you never sold the small cheap box that got the whole market started in the first place.

    The price advantage of ARM will never be there for ARM servers unless you get enough volume to make up for the absolutely huge advantage in server volume that Intel has right now. Being a smaller die with cheaper NRE doesn't matter one whit, when you can't make up for the development costs in volume. Look at every ARM server offering so far: they were not only slower, they were more expensive!

    And the power advantage is still largely theoretical and doesn't show very much on a system level anyway, and is also entirely irrelevant if people end up willing to pay more for an x86 box simply because it's what they developed their load on.

    Which leaves absolutely no real advantage to ARM.


    Source: Real World Tech
  • »23.02.19 - 07:05
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