Any news from Neuss
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Yes, best not to count on this one occurring too quickly.
    the same people developing it are also still enhancing our current platform.
    How much work can you expect them to do?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.10.15 - 19:00
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1375 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ Yasu, how was the after show event? :)
  • »11.10.15 - 19:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @ASiegel

    I was too tired to really enjoy it :-P The choice of location was odd (very far from the fair) but really nice. Good food, good booze and a lot of drunk Amigans. Oh, and Dave Haynie sung some of his greatest hits :-)

    [ Edited by Yasu 11.10.2015 - 20:26 ]
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »11.10.15 - 20:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12132 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > do you've any link where that direction was announced?

    Which direction specifically? You mean the API change?

    > Things may have changed since but read Itix post #51 :
    > http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34607&forum=28&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0

    Itix doesn't say that current m68k or PPC binaries will run transparently on MorphOS NG, just that they will continue to run in ABox which will run on MorphOS NG. Transparently running would mean that an m68k or PPC program would be able to use a MorphOS NG library and vice versa.
    He also doesn't say that the source code of current MorphOS programs will be compilable for MorphOS NG without change.
  • »11.10.15 - 22:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > do you've any link where that direction was announced?

    Which direction specifically? You mean the API change?

    > Things may have changed since but read Itix post #51 :
    > http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34607&forum=28&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0

    Itix doesn't say that current m68k or PPC binaries will run transparently on MorphOS NG, just that they will continue to run in ABox which will run on MorphOS NG. Transparently running would mean that an m68k or PPC program would be able to use a MorphOS NG library and vice versa.
    He also doesn't say that the source code of current MorphOS programs will be compilable for MorphOS NG without change.


    Which would mean it would be boxed.
    Not impossible to pass data between both environments, but nothing like transparent.
    It would be a nice feature for X64.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.10.15 - 23:13
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 1045 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:


    > More RAM available for application i.e. 200MB.

    You mean 1.7 GiB instead of 1.5 GiB?


    yes.

    Unfortunatly no extra 200MB on the Efika. :)

    We demoed Pagestream 5, SoundBankster, DigiBooster, Reader, CSVBase and other upcoming stuff at our booth.

    The A4000-PPC was running MorphOS 3.8. It would run 3.10 as well, but we did not update in time and updating on the meeting could have caused unforseen problems. Thats why it stayed at 3.8. No risk to keep the fun :D

    I personally saw it for the first time and it is quite nice. I personally would have expected it to be much slower, but it was quite useful.

    A release is not planned as it may be a support hell not only due the fragile hardware. Also there is no installation support of any kind yet, so you need to be highly experienced with Classic and MorphOS hard and software to deal with it.

    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    Meating the Team was the highlight for me at Neuss. I was more starstruck by them than by R J Mical, Dave Haynie and Petro T :-)


    Well, you weren´t alone. When walking around a guy, from accent i think he was from italy, stepped back from a booth turning towards me.

    He froze eyes on my name tag: "You are geit!" "Yes!" (I would have said more, but my voice was non existing the hole day, so i saved as much words as i could) "From MorphOS Team"
    Again I answered with a small "Yes" but smiling. We exchanged a few words and i pointed at our booth, were the real awesome people were. He said he circled our booth several times with some distance not being able to walk anywhere near. I guess he was starstruck as hell.

    Until then I did not even cross my mind that anyone could see me that way. But after some rethinking it kind of surprised me that people like piru, itix, cisc I was looking up to in my early amiga days, are the same i am working and talking to every day now, which kind of made me part of it.

    Even funnier that a few minutes earlier is was thinking "Wow. I just talked to Chris Hülsbeck!" :D
  • »12.10.15 - 12:12
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2307 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    geit wrote:

    Even funnier that a few minutes earlier is was thinking "Wow. I just talked to Chris Hülsbeck!" :D




    My thoughts were more on the line of:


    "Don't get strangeld by Trevordick, don't get used as a seat cushion by bigfoot......."
  • »12.10.15 - 19:09
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 519 from 2013/5/29
    A new pagestream 5 version?
    MorphOS: PowerMac G5 - PowerBook G4 - MacMini.
    Classic: Amiga 1200/060 - A500 PiStorm
  • »12.10.15 - 19:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @ASiegel

    I was too tired to really enjoy it :-P The choice of location was odd (very far from the fair) but really nice. Good food, good booze and a lot of drunk Amigans. Oh, and Dave Haynie sung some of his greatest hits :-)


    Me drunk ? Never.
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »12.10.15 - 22:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1218 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    geit wrote:

    Until then I did not even cross my mind that anyone could see me that way. But after some rethinking it kind of surprised me that people like piru, itix, cisc I was looking up to in my early amiga days, are the same i am working and talking to every day now, which kind of made me part of it.




    I'd like to meet you guys as well..only problem is, I'm in the USA.
  • »12.10.15 - 22:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1218 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @Everblue

    Well, he didn't tell me much more but x86/AMD64 seems like a likely bet. And as for time span, best would be not to guess at all.


    Just general thoughts..

    Hmm.. What all would happen then? If we wanted to run legacy stuff, would some sort of built in "UAE" kindy proggy kick in and run the software or we would have to run e-uae or something?

    Obviously a rewrite of some sorts for MorphOS. What all would that give MorphOS? Easier access to x86 based software like on Linux or something? Meaning, if they wanted X game or X utility and it exists under Linux, easier to port to x86 MorphOS vs PPC MorphOS?

    Anyway, like I've always said, MorphOS Devs just kick ass. Bad ass plan to go x86. I'm sure when the time comes and they release some sort of ideas on what they're thinkin, it'll look even better.
  • »12.10.15 - 23:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12132 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What all would that give MorphOS? Easier access to x86 based software
    > like on Linux or something? Meaning, if they wanted X game or X utility
    > and it exists under Linux, easier to port to x86 MorphOS vs PPC MorphOS?

    Mostly yes, unless this game or utility also exists for PPC Linux.
  • »12.10.15 - 23:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1218 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > What all would that give MorphOS? Easier access to x86 based software
    > like on Linux or something? Meaning, if they wanted X game or X utility
    > and it exists under Linux, easier to port to x86 MorphOS vs PPC MorphOS?

    Mostly yes, unless this game or utility also exists for PPC Linux.


    Aaah.. Andreas... figured you'd reply. Thats a good roadmap for MorphOS.
  • »12.10.15 - 23:59
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 1045 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:


    Hmm.. What all would happen then? If we wanted to run legacy stuff, would some sort of built in "UAE" kindy proggy kick in and run the software or we would have to run e-uae or something?



    Well, i guess we can say that any port of that kind is years away and i really don´t think we need any PPC or 68K emulation then. In fact with all the 64bit, endian, memprotection involved a full size emulatior would be required to run old stuff, but for what?

    Most of the current applications are already available in C source or the developers are still active. So if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require more or less just a recompile.

    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.

    Yeah, some old games will fail, but well. Thats live. I don´t see a point in spending tons of human resources in a development which benefits are quite limited. They are better spent in creating a fully featured replacement instead of still sitting on ancient software anyone would love to replace.

    This stuff could be added by some third party, like its done on windows with WinUAE, but I do not think any OS developer needs to be involved here.

    [ Edited by geit 13.10.2015 - 00:14 ]
  • »13.10.15 - 00:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 728 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?
    Pegasos II G4 @1.0GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9200Pro, 240GB SSD+160GB HD, MorphOS 3.18, AmigaOS4.1 FE, Debian 8
  • »13.10.15 - 00:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1218 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Cego wrote:
    what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?


    http://media2.giphy.com/media/HlFDE0DEp9Gq4/giphy.gif

    ...but in a good way...
  • »13.10.15 - 00:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12132 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require
    > more or less just a recompile.

    Doesn't API incompatibility imply source code incompatibility?
  • »13.10.15 - 00:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12132 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?

    I guess he congratulated the MorphOS team for the progress they made since he was shown MorphOS by Piru 12 years ago :-)

    https://morph.zone/modules/news/article_storyid_254.html
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44985
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=http://saku.bbs.fi/lehti/online/44/ajankohtaiset/rjmical.html
    http://saku.bbs.fi/yhdistys/tapahtumat/rj/valokuvia.html
  • »13.10.15 - 00:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    I am ready for MorphOS-NG. If that means throwing out backwards compatibility completely, so be it.

    I think it is fair to assume 3rd party will get us UAE in a reasonable amount of time. It sounds like UAE may get more robust PPC support in the future. If the MorphOS team soften their stance on emulator usage, the PPC side of compatibility may fall in line by 3rd party too.

    Either way, MorphOS-NG is needed. I hope it gets front burner soon. If the MorphOS team need funds, I'd throw into a bounty or a Kickstarter. The development team have the best track record and are the most competent I have seen. What they have done with the resources at hand is impressive.

    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    Well, i guess we can say that any port of that kind is years away and i really don´t think we need any PPC or 68K emulation then. In fact with all the 64bit, endian, memprotection involved a full size emulatior would be required to run old stuff, but for what?

    Most of the current applications are already available in C source or the developers are still active. So if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require more or less just a recompile.

    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.

    Yeah, some old games will fail, but well. Thats live. I don´t see a point in spending tons of human resources in a development which benefits are quite limited. They are better spent in creating a fully featured replacement instead of still sitting on ancient software anyone would love to replace.

    This stuff could be added by some third party, like its done on windows with WinUAE, but I do not think any OS developer needs to be involved here.




    [ Edited by redrumloa 12.10.2015 - 19:18 ]
  • »13.10.15 - 01:15
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1510 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    A new pagestream 5 version?

    So, no-one replied to tolkien, so, just a little reminder question, is there is native PPC Pagestream version 5.x.x.x been developed / working specifically for MorphOS &/or any other Amiga-like platform?
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
  • »13.10.15 - 02:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Everblue
    Posts: 167 from 2004/1/6
    I took a look at the Page Stream site, and it hasn't been updated since 2011. I hope that answers your question :)
  • »13.10.15 - 06:01
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    deka
    Posts: 136 from 2013/2/12
    From: Hungary, Kecsk...
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.


    Agree...
    No sense to keep the backward compatibility further. The amount of usable old stuff is very limited. The memory protection/SMP/more RAM gives more value to MOS, than the execution of old stuff.
  • »13.10.15 - 08:11
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1375 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    So, no-one replied to tolkien, so, just a little reminder question, is there is native PPC Pagestream version 5.x.x.x been developed / working specifically for MorphOS &/or any other Amiga-like platform?

    Yes.

    People were able to test it at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. MorphOS developer Frank Mariak had spent a considerable amount of time before the show to ensure that it could be shown.
  • »13.10.15 - 08:29
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Tcheko
    Posts: 530 from 2003/2/25
    From: France
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    @ASiegel

    Awesome! Any etd?


    No ETD defined afaik (as usual).
    Quelque soit le chemin que tu prendras dans la vie, sache que tu auras des ampoules aux pieds.
    -------
    I need to practice my Kung Fu.
  • »13.10.15 - 11:00
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