Any news from Neuss
  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 888 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:


    > More RAM available for application i.e. 200MB.

    You mean 1.7 GiB instead of 1.5 GiB?


    yes.

    Unfortunatly no extra 200MB on the Efika. :)

    We demoed Pagestream 5, SoundBankster, DigiBooster, Reader, CSVBase and other upcoming stuff at our booth.

    The A4000-PPC was running MorphOS 3.8. It would run 3.10 as well, but we did not update in time and updating on the meeting could have caused unforseen problems. Thats why it stayed at 3.8. No risk to keep the fun :D

    I personally saw it for the first time and it is quite nice. I personally would have expected it to be much slower, but it was quite useful.

    A release is not planned as it may be a support hell not only due the fragile hardware. Also there is no installation support of any kind yet, so you need to be highly experienced with Classic and MorphOS hard and software to deal with it.

    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    Meating the Team was the highlight for me at Neuss. I was more starstruck by them than by R J Mical, Dave Haynie and Petro T :-)


    Well, you weren´t alone. When walking around a guy, from accent i think he was from italy, stepped back from a booth turning towards me.

    He froze eyes on my name tag: "You are geit!" "Yes!" (I would have said more, but my voice was non existing the hole day, so i saved as much words as i could) "From MorphOS Team"
    Again I answered with a small "Yes" but smiling. We exchanged a few words and i pointed at our booth, were the real awesome people were. He said he circled our booth several times with some distance not being able to walk anywhere near. I guess he was starstruck as hell.

    Until then I did not even cross my mind that anyone could see me that way. But after some rethinking it kind of surprised me that people like piru, itix, cisc I was looking up to in my early amiga days, are the same i am working and talking to every day now, which kind of made me part of it.

    Even funnier that a few minutes earlier is was thinking "Wow. I just talked to Chris Hülsbeck!" :D
  • »12.10.15 - 12:12
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1661 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    geit wrote:

    Even funnier that a few minutes earlier is was thinking "Wow. I just talked to Chris Hülsbeck!" :D




    My thoughts were more on the line of:


    "Don't get strangeld by Trevordick, don't get used as a seat cushion by bigfoot......."
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »12.10.15 - 19:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 245 from 2013/5/29
    A new pagestream 5 version?
    PowerMac G5 and PowerBook G4 with MorphOS. Amiga 1200/060 AmigaOS 3.x
  • »12.10.15 - 19:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Simon
    Posts: 809 from 2008/7/6
    From: Antwerp, Belgium
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @ASiegel

    I was too tired to really enjoy it :-P The choice of location was odd (very far from the fair) but really nice. Good food, good booze and a lot of drunk Amigans. Oh, and Dave Haynie sung some of his greatest hits :-)


    Me drunk ? Never.
    Proud member of the Belgian Amiga Club since 2003

  • »12.10.15 - 22:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    geit wrote:

    Until then I did not even cross my mind that anyone could see me that way. But after some rethinking it kind of surprised me that people like piru, itix, cisc I was looking up to in my early amiga days, are the same i am working and talking to every day now, which kind of made me part of it.




    I'd like to meet you guys as well..only problem is, I'm in the USA.
  • »12.10.15 - 22:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @Everblue

    Well, he didn't tell me much more but x86/AMD64 seems like a likely bet. And as for time span, best would be not to guess at all.


    Just general thoughts..

    Hmm.. What all would happen then? If we wanted to run legacy stuff, would some sort of built in "UAE" kindy proggy kick in and run the software or we would have to run e-uae or something?

    Obviously a rewrite of some sorts for MorphOS. What all would that give MorphOS? Easier access to x86 based software like on Linux or something? Meaning, if they wanted X game or X utility and it exists under Linux, easier to port to x86 MorphOS vs PPC MorphOS?

    Anyway, like I've always said, MorphOS Devs just kick ass. Bad ass plan to go x86. I'm sure when the time comes and they release some sort of ideas on what they're thinkin, it'll look even better.
  • »12.10.15 - 23:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What all would that give MorphOS? Easier access to x86 based software
    > like on Linux or something? Meaning, if they wanted X game or X utility
    > and it exists under Linux, easier to port to x86 MorphOS vs PPC MorphOS?

    Mostly yes, unless this game or utility also exists for PPC Linux.
  • »12.10.15 - 23:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > What all would that give MorphOS? Easier access to x86 based software
    > like on Linux or something? Meaning, if they wanted X game or X utility
    > and it exists under Linux, easier to port to x86 MorphOS vs PPC MorphOS?

    Mostly yes, unless this game or utility also exists for PPC Linux.


    Aaah.. Andreas... figured you'd reply. Thats a good roadmap for MorphOS.
  • »12.10.15 - 23:59
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 888 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:


    Hmm.. What all would happen then? If we wanted to run legacy stuff, would some sort of built in "UAE" kindy proggy kick in and run the software or we would have to run e-uae or something?



    Well, i guess we can say that any port of that kind is years away and i really don´t think we need any PPC or 68K emulation then. In fact with all the 64bit, endian, memprotection involved a full size emulatior would be required to run old stuff, but for what?

    Most of the current applications are already available in C source or the developers are still active. So if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require more or less just a recompile.

    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.

    Yeah, some old games will fail, but well. Thats live. I don´t see a point in spending tons of human resources in a development which benefits are quite limited. They are better spent in creating a fully featured replacement instead of still sitting on ancient software anyone would love to replace.

    This stuff could be added by some third party, like its done on windows with WinUAE, but I do not think any OS developer needs to be involved here.

    [ Edited by geit 13.10.2015 - 00:14 ]
  • »13.10.15 - 00:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 540 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
    PowerMac Dual G5 @2.3GHz, 4GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9600XT, 2x250GB HD, MorphOS 3.7, MacOS X Leopard 10.5.8
  • »13.10.15 - 00:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Cego wrote:
    what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?


    http://media2.giphy.com/media/HlFDE0DEp9Gq4/giphy.gif

    ...but in a good way...
  • »13.10.15 - 00:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require
    > more or less just a recompile.

    Doesn't API incompatibility imply source code incompatibility?
  • »13.10.15 - 00:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?

    I guess he congratulated the MorphOS team for the progress they made since he was shown MorphOS by Piru 12 years ago :-)

    https://morph.zone/modules/news/article_storyid_254.html
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44985
    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=http://saku.bbs.fi/lehti/online/44/ajankohtaiset/rjmical.html
    http://saku.bbs.fi/yhdistys/tapahtumat/rj/valokuvia.html
  • »13.10.15 - 00:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/4/13
    I am ready for MorphOS-NG. If that means throwing out backwards compatibility completely, so be it.

    I think it is fair to assume 3rd party will get us UAE in a reasonable amount of time. It sounds like UAE may get more robust PPC support in the future. If the MorphOS team soften their stance on emulator usage, the PPC side of compatibility may fall in line by 3rd party too.

    Either way, MorphOS-NG is needed. I hope it gets front burner soon. If the MorphOS team need funds, I'd throw into a bounty or a Kickstarter. The development team have the best track record and are the most competent I have seen. What they have done with the resources at hand is impressive.

    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    Well, i guess we can say that any port of that kind is years away and i really don´t think we need any PPC or 68K emulation then. In fact with all the 64bit, endian, memprotection involved a full size emulatior would be required to run old stuff, but for what?

    Most of the current applications are already available in C source or the developers are still active. So if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require more or less just a recompile.

    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.

    Yeah, some old games will fail, but well. Thats live. I don´t see a point in spending tons of human resources in a development which benefits are quite limited. They are better spent in creating a fully featured replacement instead of still sitting on ancient software anyone would love to replace.

    This stuff could be added by some third party, like its done on windows with WinUAE, but I do not think any OS developer needs to be involved here.




    [ Edited by redrumloa 12.10.2015 - 19:18 ]
  • »13.10.15 - 01:15
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 512 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    A new pagestream 5 version?

    So, no-one replied to tolkien, so, just a little reminder question, is there is native PPC Pagestream version 5.x.x.x been developed / working specifically for MorphOS &/or any other Amiga-like platform?
    Mac Mini 1.5GHz, Model 10.2, 64MB VRam, 250GB HDD, 1GB RAM, Airport, Bluetooth, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse, DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW, Iomega MiniMax, Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2, MorphOS 3.9, Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 & A1138 Powerbook MOS v3.9, Model 5,8
  • »13.10.15 - 02:14
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Everblue
    Posts: 138 from 2004/1/6
    I took a look at the Page Stream site, and it hasn't been updated since 2011. I hope that answers your question :)
  • »13.10.15 - 06:01
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    deka
    Posts: 122 from 2013/2/12
    From: Hungary, Kecsk...
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.


    Agree...
    No sense to keep the backward compatibility further. The amount of usable old stuff is very limited. The memory protection/SMP/more RAM gives more value to MOS, than the execution of old stuff.
  • »13.10.15 - 08:11
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 879 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    So, no-one replied to tolkien, so, just a little reminder question, is there is native PPC Pagestream version 5.x.x.x been developed / working specifically for MorphOS &/or any other Amiga-like platform?

    Yes.

    People were able to test it at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. MorphOS developer Frank Mariak had spent a considerable amount of time before the show to ensure that it could be shown.
  • »13.10.15 - 08:29
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tcheko
    Posts: 415 from 2003/2/25
    From: France
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    @ASiegel

    Awesome! Any etd?


    No ETD defined afaik (as usual).
    Quelque soit le chemin que tu prendras dans la vie, sache que tu auras des ampoules aux pieds.
    -------
    I need to practice my Kung Fu.
  • »13.10.15 - 11:00
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1291 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    deka wrote:
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.


    Agree...
    No sense to keep the backward compatibility further. The amount of usable old stuff is very limited. The memory protection/SMP/more RAM gives more value to MOS, than the execution of old stuff.


    For me the biggest hit would come to productivity software side currently. I still use many 68k painting programs (fxPaint, ArtEffect, Photogenics, TVPaint, etc) and office programs (FinalWriter, AmigaWriter, etc). There still aren't any good native programs on those areas, and it would be a huge task to create that kinds of "major" programs from scratch.

    And then I use 68k Magellan2 all the time, but theoretically there could be a working port of it by then :)

    Then there's lack of small native utils in certain areas... where I still use 68k programs. Like mp3 tag editors, virus killers, internet utils (DCTelnet, netmount, RC-ftpd, etc), and few nice shell commands I still use... I have feeling that for some of them there won't be new native versions to fill the gap ever :)

    And one big loss for me would be the loss of 68k filesystem compatibility. I use to prep / copy stuff a lot to Amiga mass storage devices to be used in the real 68k Amigas. It's been so easy and quick to do that when devices just mount to a MorphOS machine automatically.

    And of course loss of ARexx. I don't think the native port of ARexx would come any more probable than it's been for years now. There is Lua now of course, but there are still that many useful Arexx scripts still, and many programs rely on it... unless someone goes and ports them all to Lua :)

    Not sure how many 68k libs, mui classes, devices, etc are still critical too... and something else I'm not thinking now :)
  • »13.10.15 - 12:00
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 888 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require
    > more or less just a recompile.

    Doesn't API incompatibility imply source code incompatibility?


    No.

    Parts where software hacked/accessed system structures need to be rewritten for sure, but beside that it simply should work.

    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    Not sure how many 68k libs, mui classes, devices, etc are still critical too... and something else I'm not thinking now :)



    Well, those 68k mui classes, devices and etc will be obsolete when not using 68k applications anymore. Virus scanner? Seriously?

    Sure we have no proper office applications. But those are even so old that a simple UAE can deal with them. Still not need to invent some PPC emulator.

    However. You don´t know what will be available in 2017. Maybe those gabs are already closed by then. Who knows.

    [ Edited by geit 13.10.2015 - 17:31 ]
  • »13.10.15 - 12:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    There is one solution to the compatability problem: keep using your PPC MorphOS alongside your NG MorphOS until there is enough new software to take the place of the old. Your old computer is not going to stop working with an ISA shift.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »13.10.15 - 13:09
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1291 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    Virus scanner? Seriously?



    Yeah, I go through a lot of old Amiga stuff occasionally and it's a LOT quicker scan them on MorphOS than on a real Amiga :) Not to talk having much more storage on MorphOS machines...


    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    There is one solution to the compatability problem: keep using your PPC MorphOS alongside your NG MorphOS until there is enough new software to take the place of the old. Your old computer is not going to stop working with an ISA shift.


    In a more optimal situation it'd be nice to see new general features still updated to PPC MorphOS alongside the NG version. That way users could happily continue using the PPC version, if old compatibility matters more than those features NG would offer, but maybe it's too demanding with the resources available...

    [ Edited by jPV 13.10.2015 - 14:24 ]
  • »13.10.15 - 13:18
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  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 387 from 2003/8/18
    Quote:


    There is one solution to the compatability problem: keep using your PPC MorphOS alongside your NG MorphOS until there is enough new software to take the place of the old. Your old computer is not going to stop working with an ISA shift.


    I thought the whole concept of MorphOS was to implement something like MacOSX did where you could run the classic OS inside a sandbox alongside the new modern OS.

    Wasn't it the purpose of the ABox ?

    If that's the case, as long as the OS runs on a PowerPC CPU, there is no compatibility problem. Of course, if running on x64, we can forget it.
    Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
  • »13.10.15 - 13:49
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