Any recent statements on PCIe based G5 support?
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1969 from 2003/2/24
    *shrug*

    Mine survived 10 years, good chance that it won't be affected anytime soon.
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  • »09.10.15 - 20:53
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10824 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Radeon X1900XT for Powermac

    X1900GT :-)
  • »09.10.15 - 21:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1386 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    PowerMac G5 pcie comes with Nvidia 6600Le, which isn't supported by MorphOS. That's the first problem. Radeon X1900XT for Powermac aren't easy to buy and they are quite expensive. You can always buy PC card and reflash it but mac bios for these cards isn't supported well in Morphos (original mac and reflashed ones). Since Morphos 3.8 You can use PC card with pc bios in Macs (7.3 also) and it works. But in this mode you can't access OpenFirmware, run MacosX etc. You get black screen and wait for (or forever) MorphOS boot screen so You cant boot from usb, check what is wrong, access apple boot menu.

    Minor problems come from not written yet drivers for some peripherals. I encourage from time to time, some other team members to fix issues but for today X5000 port has a high priority.

    Beside having beta port not usable yet, i got 188 fps in Q3 which is the best results in amiga world :)




    Thanks!
  • »09.10.15 - 22:33
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10824 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855
  • »20.01.16 - 00:59
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4881 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    So who is the analogkid?
    BTW - That post was particularly vague.

    To be more pointed, Frank asked me not to bring it up again because I'd made a positive statement about the timeline for this myself (which was purely speculative).

    I think its going to happen, but I'm not bringing it up again.

    When its ready, they will release it.

    How do you know its not part of the next release?
    After all, both the SAM460 and the X5000 have PCIe slots, so why not support the late '05 G5s?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.01.16 - 02:15
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10824 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So who is the analogkid?

    https://morph.zone/users/1340.html

    > That post was particularly vague.

    Yes, that's because the context is missing in single-post view. My bad, sorry. Please use this link to the thread instead:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=906676

    > How do you know its not part of the next release?

    I don't. Analogkid seems to think it will be part of 3.10, that's what I linked to. As to how he knows you'd have to ask him.
  • »20.01.16 - 08:57
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 542 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    Sadly, nothing has changed since my last post in this thread (09.10.2015). Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing. The second problem is question how many users would register this version. Doing this version for 10 users is not the option. One can Create a poll, it would be nic to know how many users would buy it.
  • »20.01.16 - 09:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1057 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    The second problem is question how many users would register this version.


    Probably much more than registered Sam460 users ;)
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »20.01.16 - 11:24
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4881 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > So who is the analogkid?

    https://morph.zone/users/1340.html

    > That post was particularly vague.

    Yes, that's because the context is missing in single-post view. My bad, sorry. Please use this link to the thread instead:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=906676

    > How do you know its not part of the next release?

    I don't. Analogkid seems to think it will be part of 3.10, that's what I linked to. As to how he knows you'd have to ask him.


    Thanks Andreas,
    3.10 sounds like a strong possibility.
    I stopped asking as I didn't want to bug anyone about what seemed to be the natural course for MorphOS.

    I do have a system ready, and would register it though.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.01.16 - 12:52
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2686 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    Sadly, nothing has changed since my last post in this thread (09.10.2015). Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing. The second problem is question how many users would register this version. Doing this version for 10 users is not the option. One can Create a poll, it would be nic to know how many users would buy it.


    Since the team has been working on the port to the X5000, which also has PCIe for video card, wouldn't it just make more sense that they will also improve the support for RadeonHD PCIe video cards by completing 3D support, as well as improving the existing 2D and compositing support (is compositing support already completed for RadeonHD cards)?

    That would make more sense to me than doing any additional work on X1900 video cards which are hard to find.

    I suppose that getting new RadeonHD video cards to display the Mac Open Firmware is the problem with this solution, as I am unfamiliar with what current video cards are supported by MacOSX, and any support that currently exists would likely not help in an old G5 PCIe PowerMac. Hopefully there will be some kind of work around to give us good choices of video cards to put into the last generation of G5 PowerMacs running MorphOS, if MorphOS is indeed ever ported to such G5 systems.

    The work needed to accomplish such support for the last few G5 systems might be better spent working on the x64 version of MorphOS.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »20.01.16 - 21:54
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2626 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    Sadly, nothing has changed since my last post in this thread (09.10.2015). Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing.


    Since the team has been working on the port to the X5000, which also has PCIe for video card, wouldn't it just make more sense that they will also improve the support for RadeonHD PCIe video cards by completing 3D support, as well as improving the existing 2D and compositing support


    Current MorphOS version displays (indeed with no accelleration whatsoever, not even 2D, but at least it *displays*) on:

    AMD Radeon HD 2400
    AMD Radeon HD 3450
    AMD Radeon HD 4350
    AMD Radeon HD 4550
    AMD Radeon HD 4650
    AMD Radeon HD 5450
    AMD Radeon HD 6450
    AMD Radeon HD 6570
    AMD Radeon HD 7570
    AMD Radeon HD 7570

    To me, this is a statement of commitment. Especially considering their earlier policy of not even showing/allowing an un-accellerated display until the 2D/3D accellerated support was finished. IMHO they wouldn't even have included this display-only support in the public release if they weren't working on a follow-up release with proper support.

    They are supporting Sam460 and X5000, they are aware of what GFX cards that owners of these boards have/will have.

    Besides, proper support for these GFX cards (and later) will be mandatory for the x64 migration, it can't happen without it. This I think also speaks in favor of proper support being imminent.

    Regarding the question "if", I think it's a safe bet. "When" is probably the real question here. I'd say in release 3.10. I believe much speaks in favor of this. Maybe it's even this that is holding the 3.10 release back?

    ;-)


    Quote:

    The work needed to accomplish such support for the last few G5 systems might be better spent working on the x64 version of MorphOS.


    Amen!

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »20.01.16 - 22:36
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 326 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing.


    Reflashed Radeons are not supported and never will be supported. However, you can use a R500+ Radeons on MorphOS with the original firmware, even in a Mac, so any such thing would be completely pointless anyway.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »21.01.16 - 07:19
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10824 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > you can use a R500+ Radeons on MorphOS with the original firmware,
    > even in a Mac, so any such thing would be completely pointless anyway.

    What about display of OpenFirmware prompt and graphical boot menu?
  • »21.01.16 - 07:54
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 326 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    What about display of OpenFirmware prompt and graphical boot menu?


    Obviously you don't get that.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »21.01.16 - 08:14
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10824 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> What about display of OpenFirmware prompt and graphical boot menu?

    > Obviously you don't get that.

    Thanks. I was just puzzled by your notion about it being "completely pointless" :-)
  • »21.01.16 - 08:39
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    bigfoot
    Posts: 326 from 2003/4/11
    Well then, to make it clear to anyone who might be wondering about the boot menu question... You don't need a boot menu to run MorphOS on a PCIE G5 machine with an R500 graphics card with its original (x86) flash. Thus modifying the flash on an R500 graphics card would be pointless for running MorphOS.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »21.01.16 - 09:59
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4881 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    Well then, to make it clear to anyone who might be wondering about the boot menu question... You don't need a boot menu to run MorphOS on a PCIE G5 machine with an R500 graphics card with its original (x86) flash. Thus modifying the flash on an R500 graphics card would be pointless for running MorphOS.


    AND the Apple X1900GT is available which gives us an R500 based card capable of displaying Open firmware prompts.
    I have one, but would probably use a PC X1950XTX instead.

    If you want more power than the X1900GT you have to give up easy access to Open firmware, so I'll keep the X1900GT as a backup if I need to do that, and move up the ladder as our remarkable developers improve the drivers for the HD Radeon cards.

    [ Edited by Jim 21.01.2016 - 10:08 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.01.16 - 13:24
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4881 from 2009/1/28
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    Oh, and a quick note, I have not found Mac Radeons to be hard to find at all.
    9600 cards are everywhere at really low prices, 9800 cards are over priced but available, X800XT cards can often be had at better prices than the 9800s, and X1900GT cards can be had for about $100.

    [ Edited by Jim 29.01.2016 - 13:25 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.01.16 - 15:17
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  • Caterpillar
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    marmotta
    Posts: 27 from 2012/6/11
    The simples solution is not dual video card? Original Apple card for OpenFirmware and Osx, and another card (normal RadeonHD pc card) for Morphos. With two monitors or switch.

    P.s. second video card is also good for linux ;-)

    [ Edited by marmotta 02.02.2016 - 10:32 ]
  • »02.02.16 - 09:30
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4881 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    marmotta wrote:
    The simples solution is not dual video card? Original Apple card for OpenFirmware and Osx, and another card (normal RadeonHD pc card) for Morphos. With two monitors or switch.

    P.s. second video card is also good for linux ;-)


    That would depend on how MorphOS initiates video cards, as MorphOS can only use one Radeon card.
    If the card you want to run OSX or Linux with initializes before the card you want to run MorphOS on, your solution won't work.

    I have a PCIe riser with a molex power plug that I may modify for this use.
    Add a switch to turn off the power, no card is seen and the OS will boot off the PC card.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.02.16 - 16:48
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  • Caterpillar
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    marmotta
    Posts: 27 from 2012/6/11
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    marmotta wrote:
    The simples solution is not dual video card? Original Apple card for OpenFirmware and Osx, and another card (normal RadeonHD pc card) for Morphos. With two monitors or switch.

    P.s. second video card is also good for linux ;-)


    That would depend on how MorphOS initiates video cards, as MorphOS can only use one Radeon card.
    If the card you want to run OSX or Linux with initializes before the card you want to run MorphOS on, your solution won't work.

    I have a PCIe riser with a molex power plug that I may modify for this use.
    Add a switch to turn off the power, no card is seen and the OS will boot off the PC card.




    You can swap the radeonhd on pcie 16x and original Apple Nvidia on 8x, linux go without problems with RadeonHD.

    Look this tread:

    Ubuntu Forum

    Edit: the best for compatibility is use RadeonHd on 8x pcie

    [ Edited by marmotta 02.02.2016 - 18:36 ]
  • »02.02.16 - 17:24
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    zukow
    Posts: 542 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Photo of PowerMac G5 PCie from the AmiParty in Chelm/Poland :)

    Photos from meeting

    (pmac g5 with blue competition pro joystick)

    [ Edited by zukow 25.02.2016 - 09:49 ]
  • »24.02.16 - 18:59
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4881 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    marmotta wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    marmotta wrote:
    The simples solution is not dual video card? Original Apple card for OpenFirmware and Osx, and another card (normal RadeonHD pc card) for Morphos. With two monitors or switch.

    P.s. second video card is also good for linux ;-)


    That would depend on how MorphOS initiates video cards, as MorphOS can only use one Radeon card.
    If the card you want to run OSX or Linux with initializes before the card you want to run MorphOS on, your solution won't work.

    I have a PCIe riser with a molex power plug that I may modify for this use.
    Add a switch to turn off the power, no card is seen and the OS will boot off the PC card.




    You can swap the radeonhd on pcie 16x and original Apple Nvidia on 8x, linux go without problems with RadeonHD.

    Look this tread:

    Ubuntu Forum

    Edit: the best for compatibility is use RadeonHd on 8x pcie


    That would work, Radeon PC card for MorphOS and Nvidia Apple card for OSX.
    If you connected both to the same monitor you could probably limit your system to one display without using a VGA or DVI switch.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »24.02.16 - 19:54
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10824 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Photo of PowerMac G5 PCie from the AmiParty in Chelm/Poland :)
    > [...]

    Splendid :-)

    (original resolution)
  • »24.02.16 - 20:24
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