Well, you may have heard that WinUAE has got/will get CyberstormPPC emulation, too. Current state of WinUAE with PowerPC is rather like a proof of concet (slow and not too stable), but maybe in future (when a ppc JIT will be avalable) speed will reach levels where is actually provides something useful.

What about the "Usage on any other hardware and/or inside of emulation environments is strictly forbidden." clause of the MorphOS for PowerUP? Why's that?

I mean MorphOS on emulation can enrich our eco system. There are folks who don't want some extra hardware, but are positive against MorphOS. For those MorphOS on emulation could be useful. Or developers who like to maintain AROS, OS4 and MorphOS versions of their work, but don't want that much hardware, or ppl just curious to try out and, and, and...

I cannot see many disadvantages - it will not be super fast thouogh and ppl _might_ get a false impression about MorphOS' speed. But all in all I think probable benefit will outweight possible disadvantages by far (if emulation speed will get at least 200MHz 604 performance on usual current hardware).

Native Is Better.

One reason could also be that MorphOS 1.4.5 gives quite false information what MorphOS 2.x has been since 2008. Some people could judge current version with that old version which was missing lots of necessary stuff, and it's much more complicated to install etc... But of course it might attract some people to get further and get the latest version, but how many compared to those who get the bad impression :) Many new programs also require 2.x, so software support wouldn't look that good either...

Buuut if there would be 3.x PUP version and some solution to mac address faking to prevent the piracy, then it could be cool :)

[ Edited by jPV 20.08.2014 - 05:19 ]

Quote:

It's pretty simple. MorphOS for Powerup was given away for free. We made the decision to give it away for free for 2 main reasons:
1) The hardware is quite limited speedwise as well as when it comes to memory (maximum 128 or 256MB of (actually) fast memory for CSPPC and BPPC respectively)
2) Due to the rather extreme amount of variation in hardware configuration of Amigas, as well as the quality and stability of said hardware, officially supporting it (and thus asking money for it) would be too big a burden.

Emulation has the potential to be a lot faster than a real Amiga, so that removes reason 1. Emulation is also (basically) a single hardware configuration with (again, potentially) no hardware stability problems, removing reason 2.

So long story short: While we were happy to give MorphOS away for free for Powerup hardware users, it doesn't mean that we also want to do that for other hardware, no matter if that other hardware is a Powermac G4 or a Core i7 running emulation.

I don't follow this logic. Unless WinUAE miraculously reaches or exceeds at least my current hardware performance, it will just be a proof of concept to the average MorphOS user (imo) and only useful to cheap pirates who don't give a fuck about software development anyway. Hey, just look at the users showing screenshots of OS4.1. booting: I had never, ever heard from them on the past to be remotely interested on modern Amiga NG OSes, let alone OWN a copy of OS4.1. for classics.

Also, current benchmarks reveal near 40Mhz performance. Even if it gets 10 times faster or 20 times faster with the JIT compiler on its back, it will still be slow for everyday usage (though I do understand that it will be comparably close with many PPC machines out there, whereas their owners would gladly trade the old hardware with an i7 wearing a modified Windows boot sequence that goes straight to winuae/morphos).

Still I measure that everyday usage in MorphOS terms (struggling to play an embedded YT video while messing with blender, reading mails, listening to music, having a 3.9 environment running on a different screen while having paused an fps game on another screen etc). Even on a 1.6Ghz G4 I can reach its limits each day :( What MorphOS needs is power, power that will enable the possibility being able to playback a h264/265 mkv flawless and not spending valuable time fighting to iron out tiny bugs or drain the last drop of your GFX speed because of the severe hardware limitations. Do you want to see new ports of fps/3D games happen, do you want to run simultaneously a great amount of applications, do you want to be able someday, in the not so distant future I hope, to playback modern video filetypes? Then support the native (even if the native root, requires an architecture switch ;)). Unless MorphOS devsn state otherwise, that it could be possible to have the full benefits from modern/fast hardware access via WinUAE while surpassing the current G4/G5 speeds, then it's a no go. My two cents ofc :)

I'll try one last time in even simpler terms:
1) MorphOS is not free to use.
2) MorphOS has in one special case been made free to use, and that is if you run it on some very specific hardware.
3) For all other hardware, see point 1.

@bigfoot

I posted same time with you, my post wasn't a comment to yours but to the original message of the thread :)

Btw, my franken-mac sends you his regards :P

Why won't you all wait and see what comes out of the PPC WinUAE affair in the first place? There's usually a long road between early screen shots and something that can actually run MorphOS and run it as stable as on the real hardware.

> Unless WinUAE miraculously reaches or exceeds at least my current hardware
> performance, it will just be a proof of concept to the average MorphOS user (imo)

Why should your current hardware performance (1.6 GHz G4) of all hardware performances be the yardstick for the average MorphOS user? Mind you, the performances of the slowest and the fastest MorphOS-compatible hardware are one order of magnitude apart. I can very well imagine that people do find MorphOS useful on (emulated) hardware with performance lower than 1.6 GHz G4. I use a 1.5 GHz G4, btw.
Besides performance, another major reason for the proof-of-concept nature would be the fact that it only runs ancient MorphOS 1.x.

> and only useful to cheap pirates

How can you pirate MorphOS 1.x when it is free to use?

> just look at the users showing screenshots of OS4.1. booting: I had never,
> ever heard from them on the past to [...] OWN a copy of OS4.1. for classics.

Fortunately, nobody is obliged to notify you when having purchased a legitimate copy of OS4.1 for Classic :-)

> do you want to run simultaneously a great amount of applications

Run or use? ;-)

> Unless [...] it could be possible to have the full benefits from modern/fast hardware
> access via WinUAE while surpassing the current G4/G5 speeds, then it's a no go.

...for you. Others may see it different and be more modest.

Quote:

Thankas for clarifying the background from that disclaimer I cited above. I hadn't put that disclaimer in the particular context of the free PowerUp edition (with the emphasis on free), but thought it was rather a general comment on emulation.

As I see it right it _could_ be that once (if at all) WinUAE PPC runs fast and stable enough and a bullet proof registration scheme for emulation has been found (accessing the host MAC somehow?) MorphOS on emulation _could_ could see the light of day.

I had MorphOS 1.4.5 on my A1200 for about 20 minutes. Next to my Amiga I had Mac Mini 1.5Ghz with MorphOS 2.4. The difference was extreme so after collecting all expensive ppc card, bvision etc i was using MorphOS for 20 minutes then I apologized my Mac Mini for that and sold Amiga.

My point is - even if WinUAE will emulate MorphOS PUP at some stage, the quality of that is more than poor comparing to current MorphOS releases so it's pointless.

Personally I find MorphOS on QEMU more attractive. One of the Mzone users was trying to get it done but looks like he is quiet for some time now..

> Personally I find MorphOS on QEMU more attractive. One of the Mzone users was trying
> to get it done but looks like he is quiet for some time now.

If you refer to that thread, I doubt that he is a MorphZone member.

Quote:

First of all, its not the same as well proven WinUAE 68k Amigas JIT emulations - its an experimental add on of QEMU PPC box. Its also much harder to set, as it needs several Blizzard related files to operate, then usual 68k "pick the model and ROM and kick in" WinUAE config.

It surely more affects AOS 4 market then MOS one: since MOS 1.x is kind of abandoned, even it ment original full PPC OS revolution. As explained, Blizzard upgrade cards and overall PPC in old Amigas concept became to limited, to be replaced by full PPC boards like Genesi and PPC Macs.

But not much noise about piracy should be made. OS 4 Classic and OS 4.1 Classics are NOT avail on Torrents, and I have never heard they have been pirated. In fact, only current guide to setup OS 4.1 Classic on WinUAE explicitly mentions using original copy.
http://amigafun.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/installing-amigaos4-1-classic-onto-winuae-2-9-0beta12/

And as mentioned, booting an OS is in emulation box is a long way from being able to use its all apps which is currently true for emulating WarpOS/PowerUp, MorphOS 1.x and AmigaOS 4.x. But there is no hurt to try.

I find TAWS as better and easier preview of OS 4.1 http://www.taws.ch/WB.html and maybe similar HTML5 presentation of MorphOS could benefit some public attraction to preview it. Also free to try is great benefit of MorphOS anyway.

As performance increases, WinUAE PPC emulation might be helpful for both those who don`t own Amigas anymore to those still selling some PPC related software, or even if its exceeds old Amigas performance (as they are limited to what 604 160Mhz?) down to those whose hardware might die due to age and they wish to for their own reasons continue to use their software.

I however love the feel of hardware and native use, even emulation boxes become better each day.

> its an experimental add on of QEMU PPC box.

No, it's PearPC for now.

> it needs several Blizzard related files to operate

Cyberstorm emulation is recommended over Blizzard emulation.

> full PPC boards like Genesi

Genesi is a company. The boards are called Pegasos and Efika 5200B. The original (i.e. pre-April) Pegasos I was developed by bplan without help from Genesi (or Thendic-France for that matter).

> OS 4 Classic and OS 4.1 Classics [...] never [...] have been pirated.

Illegal downloads of OS4.0 for Classic can be found easily on the Internet. I don't know about OS4.1 for Classic, though.

> only current guide to setup OS 4.1 Classic on WinUAE [...]
> http://amigafun.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/installing-amigaos4-1-classic-onto-winuae-2-9-0beta12/

That's not the only guide. There are others like:

http://classicamiga.blogspot.com/2014/08/amigaos41-classic-on-winuae-part-1.html
http://classicamiga.blogspot.com/2014/08/amigaos41-classic-on-winuae-part-2.html

> booting an OS is in emulation box is a long way from being able to use its all apps which
> is currently true for emulating WarpOS/PowerUp, MorphOS 1.x and AmigaOS 4.x.

MorphOS 1.x doesn't run yet in WinUAE.

> they are limited to what 604 160Mhz?

Cyberstorm started at 150 MHz 604e and Blizzard at 160 MHz 603e.

Quote:

Not true.

Quote:

So it didn't happen if you didn't hear about it?

Quote:

OK I am sad to hear about it, I do anyway have a OS 4.0 Classic original, and as soon as I make an ADF of boot floppy, will give it a bit of try. In small market, piracy is not the key. However, I believe it will give some kind of boost to OS4 Classic sales - from those people who don`t want to have a pirated product. And since OS4 AmiUpdate is linked to Hyperions account it is anyway declassified soon - pirated version shouldn`t have ability to download updates *that is if Hyperion is able to detect usage of same key from more then one computer.

Thanks for minor corrections, I believe most of the points made were understandable.

Piracy belongs to Amiga glory days. Anywhichway, even East European users are nowadays able to afford cost of software and thus support development, if poverty was any excuse back in 90s.

@bigfoot: if giving it away for free on a capable hardware is the problem, what about a time-limited demo like recent MorphOS versions on modern hardware ?

> what about a time-limited demo like recent MorphOS versions on modern hardware ?

"MorphOS 1.4.5 PowerUP edition is limited to 2 hours per session. After that period it will slow down considerably."
http://powerup.morphos-team.net

@Andreas_Wolf:

Quote:

I assume registration removes the limitation and it is free to register, right ?

[ Edited by Leo 21.08.2014 - 06:26 ]

Main reason I don't use MorphOS much is because it needs dedicated hardware. And the reason I will never buy MorphOS is because a registered copy is locked to that hardware.Thanks to UAE, these silly artificial limitation are not there for old AmigaOS, and also not for AROS, so those are what I use most. And soon maybe OS4.1. I understand MorphOS developers, they just want an OS for themselves and do not really care about the user base, by registering you basically paying to be allowed to be an annoying user :)

As long as WinUAE is not capable to run MorphOS it is pointless.

Hmm... I think AmigaOS was locked to specific hardware. I recall there were different Kickstarts for different models and they were not interchangeable. But could be I remember it wrong.

[ Edited by itix 21.12.2014 - 22:46 ]

Quote:

Itix said a lot more than I was thinking of

You just can't run workbench on a Pentium Pro,
It was designed to run on dedicated hardware with
Motorola 68k processors...

Use MorphOS if is fills your needs,
in other case, switch to AROS,
that option is the best if you don't look
for dedicated hardware

>> a registered copy is locked to that hardware.Thanks to UAE, these silly
>> artificial limitation are not there for old AmigaOS

> I think AmigaOS was locked to specific hardware. I recall there were different
> Kickstarts for different models and they were not interchangeable.

But you can use the same Kickstart on a different machine of the same model, whereas you cannot do this with the MorphOS keyfile. I think that's the locking kolla was talking about.