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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 505 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Gents, keep it relaxed. All media is biased, so some deeper insight and careful observation is needed. Rarely there is just one good side (except in the movies) or even if it is, rarely it uses only civic methods. To mention one of such, even Mendelas ANC freedom fighters against apartheid utilized terrorist tactics and caused civilian casaulties. Part of arguable national reconcilliation afterwards was judging those crimes also, not only apartheid caused ones, and ending result years after is far from decent and equal Southafrican society. Just as an example of something we could in past agree as obvious freedom fight, over deeper insight and test of time have proven to be not so perfect.

    On the Ukrainian story I will put downsides on both sides. Ukrainian society seems to be in state of civic war amongst its citizens with several conflicting interests, and I have sincere doubt that official side of Ukraine really represent the best interest of all their citizens. Overthrown of previous gouvernement maybe was a sincere wish for more freedom and better life, but it seems that unity around it and good realization of improvement was short lived. Kind of reminds me of overthrown of Milosevic in 2000. It was good at the time, but now 14 years later, life hasn`t improved as much as expected.Also, as recent wave of right wing politicians uprise all over the world (Economic crisis, nationalism ...) their rise of Right Sector to power is quite a concern and fuel to it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
    It includes quite neonazi groups and is sadly supported by EU and US in this conflict by doctrine "enemy of our enemy is our friend" (same way they once supported Saddam vs Iran, Talibans vs Russians etc.)

    On pro-Russian side, way Crimea was annexed is at least disputable,just because of need of military naval base. That could be achieved by diplomacy. Russia obviously supports rebels in many ways and has demonstrated same ways of violence with South Ossetia that makes them kind of equally imperialistic in methods as US. Military show off at any cost. Surely all this also beares involvement of similar Russian extreme nationalists and neonazis involvement too.
    See list of combatants
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis

    If Wiki is correct, even Russian bikers are involved :-) :-(
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Wolves

    Similarly to conflict in Syria, both sides employ various paramilitary troops and fanatics, which in shortes reminds me its kind of post cold war proxy war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_war where neither US or Russia are officially involved, but are financially and in military support. And a lot of civilians die while war endures.

    In short conclusion, its a sad state of world even today, like nothing has learned from conflicts AFTER WWII (and hence even from WWII). We shouldn`t allow ourselves to fall into a trap of worshiping one side that easily, and hope and support that conflict ends in peaceful way fast as possible.

    Saying that, mutual interest of both sides should be prosperity and peace, and among EU and Russia trade - since de facto they are biggest trade partners at least when it comes down to resources. In a way, in such wars we are all loosers. Mostly people of Ukraine,and by sad news of taken lives that takes positive energy of our everyday lives - we are all victims.

    So hope we ll come back to OS wars and such instead :-) Live long and prosper
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  • »26.07.14 - 18:12
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