Crumb,
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Not only do I think this is a fair statement, I really think it is simple FACT and not simply opinion. OS4 is withering on the vine.

You know, we really need to stop picking at this scab.

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I agree. It serves no purpose. This thread should probably be closed.

[ Edited by amigadave 16.11.2013 - 13:14 ]

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Seconded.
It merely reflects poorly on us to keep rehashing this.
Let those in the OS4 community that want to keep this sense of rivalry thriving carry on.
We ought to be above it.

And with this latest drive to get Fab a bounty to port over his web browser, we actually look like the more congenial party anyway. After all, their the party that doesn't want to share software.

And, whatever will the brothers do if our developers do make the leap to 64bit?

After all, two developers versus over a dozen isn't even a fair fight.

> two developers versus over a dozen

I think OS4 has more OS developers than two.

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The updates seem minimal, latest one just included AmiUpdate, it's like claiming AmigaOS3.x is continuously evolving because Grunch was released for it

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Fact: AROS has public Gallium and OS4 doesn't so best card you can use with OS4 are R200.

Fact: AROS runs on 64bits systems (and can use more than 2GB of ram).

Fact: MorphOS supports R300 cards and OS4 doesn't.

Fact: MorphOS runs on laptops and OS4 doesn't.

It's not a matter of opinion I think.

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I just mean OS4 has little to offer for MorphOS and that OS4 is heading towards a linux-like system, something that is not Amiga/MorphOS phylosophy... not desirable for me. Collaboration is nice if both sides win something.


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I have not interest in OS4&linux nor his users so it's funny that some people come pretending that nothing happened and that we have something to win... IMHO MorphOS Team should stay away from Hyperion&Ben Hermans. Everybody Ben Hermans deals with is sued by him (latest example is Amiga Inc)

Collaboration between 3rd party developers? Of course, it's very desirable. But Collaboration between OS4&MorphOS Team? No thanks, that's just asking for trouble. Collaboration between AROS&MorphOS is a good idea too.

OS4 will probably vanish alone due to the incompetence of its management, so don't worry, no need to look for "enemys" nor writting history books about conspiracy against OS4.

> The updates seem minimal, latest one just included AmiUpdate

According to the web page I linked to in posting #50, the latest update to OS4 was "Kernel | sys:kickstart/kernel | 53.58 | 2013-09-27".

> best card you can use with OS4 are R200.

...if you want hardware-accelerated 3D.

> MorphOS supports R300 cards and OS4 doesn't.

I think it does in 2D.

> Everybody Ben Hermans deals with is sued by him (latest example is Amiga Inc)

Hyperion countersued Amiga Inc., but that was only after Amiga Inc. initially sued Hyperion. Besides, I think that Hyperion has had way more business partners that were not sued than those who were. Can you provide a list of all people or corporations that you think were sued by Hermans?

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I have heard that rumor too, but every time someone brings up OS4 development they mention the Freiden brothers.

So far, I have not seen anyone else make a credible claim that they were working on OS4.

It seems painfully obvious that Steve Solie is not talented enough to handle it.

>> MorphOS supports R300 cards and OS4 doesn't.

>I think it does in 2D.

Yes, a 2D driver has been available for some time.

It's 3D drivers they seem to have a problem creating.


[ Edited by Jim 18.11.2013 - 18:22 ]

>> I think OS4 has more OS developers than two.

> I have heard that rumor too

Funny one :-)

> but every time someone brings up OS4 development they mention the Freiden brothers.

That's because those 2 are at the very core and are the only ones supposedly being paid fulltime for OS4 development (see how "100K euro per year" is a usual salary for 2 contracted senior programmers in Germany?). If this meant they were the only ones, MorphOS would have no OS developers by that logic.

> So far, I have not seen anyone else make a credible claim that they were working on OS4.

Huh? Where have you been looking for these claims? Surely not on the official Hyperion blog or official Hyperion support forum (or Amigans.net).

"Alex Carmona and Lyle Hazelwood"
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=724

"Fredrik Wikström"
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=736

"Thomas "imagodespira" Claus and Frank "Goos McGuile" Menzel"
http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=936

Those alone are 5 people. Other people claimed to be current OS4 developers from http://www.amigaos.net/content/11/credits include:

Colin Wenzel
Costel Mincea
Hans de Ruiter
Karl Churchill
Martin Merz
Massimiliano Tretene
Peter Gordon
Philippe Ferrucci
Sebastian Bauer
Simon Archer
Steven Solie
Thore Böckelmann
Tony Wyatt

... essentially every Hyperion Support Forum member with "AmigaOS Core Developer" status. I'm sure there're even more names from the AmigaOS credits page who claim or are claimed to be currently active in the OS4 project.

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This is only *one* of those uneducated assumptions you made.

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...and another one. You can't be more wrong. But hey, just go on - we're on the blue side of things here. People like Jim will believe you, no problem.

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Not only in your humble opinion. Since "then" everything's coming out just niceley here, so there's no reason to change this.

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It won't. No, really. It will not go away...

"People like Jim will believe you, no problem."

I find that more than vaguely offensive.
First, there is no one like me.
Second, I'd place no more faith in an unsupported claim from a MorphOS user than I would an OS4 user.

And on that point, thanks again Andreas.
The last time I tried to find some information on OS4 it was so disorganized and scattered amongst several sites that I almost gave up.
That has not encouraged me to continue exploring.

It doesn't matter guys! This hypothetical merge will simply not happen.

This discussion will take us nowhere.

> The last time I tried to find some information on OS4 it was so disorganized and
> scattered amongst several sites that I almost gave up. That has not encouraged
> me to continue exploring.

The two main OS4 resources are:

http://www.amigaos.net
http://wiki.amigaos.net

None of those sites has a list of the currently active OS developers, but that shouldn't be needed for exploring the OS.

No, knowledge of the OS4 developers is not really necessary.
And curiously enough, I have grown rather sympathetic to the situation the Frieden brothers have found themselves in.
Amiga fanatics can be a little abusive (as MorphOS supporters have probably noticed).

If you disregard Ben's part in this endeavor, these are just to contracted developers trying to take on a really large project.

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And that IS the central point.
They developed an entire operating system rather than cooperate, so why would they shift direction now?
AND why would our developers want to pursue that idea?

Let's just move on in the direction already mapped.
I'm ready and want to see where OUR developers would take this.

Amiga is a dead issue.
Cursed (might have even done in a hardy weasel like Barry Altman - God rest his soul).

Jim,
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Though I do think there should be more cross compiling from third party developers. A lot of games and programs could/would/should work for all three platforms and that would automatically mean more potential revenues. Not much, granted, but having a little more income has to be better than to keep yelling "No! I'm not porting this for OS YYY because I only like OS ZZZ!".

I don't think the Amiga is *dead* (terribly small and without commercial posibility maybe, but not dead). There is still so much love and will to push forward that we have 3 whole useful (more or less) OS's to choose from. What other OS from over 20 years ago can brag about that? BeOS? OS/2? I don't think so

I actually dug out a copy of OS/2 to play around with an ISA video digitizer I had, but that OS can be tricky to find for download (Windows, unfortunately, is much easier).

BeOS, Haiku, one of these days...

I guess I was being a little hard on Amiga OS.

And I don't see MorphOS developers unwilling to port to other NG OS' (now the other direction...).

To parapharase the guy at Osnews.com: "the only place where something interesting is always happening when it comes to obscure OS developments is the Amiga camp."

> Maybe this guy is doing something...

A year later:

http://portingwx.blogspot.com/2013/12/game-over-play-again.html

One blog entry for the entire year...
Me thinks he is not trying that hard.

> Hermans from Hyperion also joined in the bashing, claiming that MorphOS was
> based on stolen AmigaOS 3.1 code

Hyperionmp today:

"other "variants" of AmigaOS (not based on original source-code although there is some debate about that)"
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35072&forum=32&start=360#738206

;-)

It's pretty telling that most Hyperion bashing nowadays comes from their own camp