MorphZone

SMP under Amiga OS

BSzili

# 51
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 559 from 2012/6/8

From: Hungary

Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Somewhere around its inception. It's binary compatible on m68k, and source code compatible on the rest.

AROS is not source and binary compatible.

But on 68k one can add libraries and patches from oryginal Amiga Os and made 68k AROS
enough source and binary compatible.

AROS x86 is of course worth nothing shit.

AROS x86 was shit, AROS x86 is shit and AROS x86 will be shit.

It is simple.

CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility.

AROS x86 have to have all drawbacks of original amiga os removed at time of change api to not compatybile.

AROS for LE cpu should be amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

AROS x86 with cheated SMP is set of hacks still with out memory protection.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :)

Not really, if its a fairly obvious fact.
And "CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility", isn't worded that well, but it is factual.
Endian mode does greatly affect compatibility (although, conversely, it makes porting from other little endian platforms easier).

Yawn. AROS runs on multiple CPU architectures, which includes two 32-bit big endian ones (ARM is technically bi-endian too).
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
»08.03.17 - 17:44

Jim

# 52
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Somewhere around its inception. It's binary compatible on m68k, and source code compatible on the rest.

AROS is not source and binary compatible.

But on 68k one can add libraries and patches from oryginal Amiga Os and made 68k AROS
enough source and binary compatible.

AROS x86 is of course worth nothing shit.

AROS x86 was shit, AROS x86 is shit and AROS x86 will be shit.

It is simple.

CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility.

AROS x86 have to have all drawbacks of original amiga os removed at time of change api to not compatybile.

AROS for LE cpu should be amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

AROS x86 with cheated SMP is set of hacks still with out memory protection.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :)

Not really, if its a fairly obvious fact.
And "CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility", isn't worded that well, but it is factual.
Endian mode does greatly affect compatibility (although, conversely, it makes porting from other little endian platforms easier).

Yawn. AROS runs on multiple CPU architectures, which includes two 32-bit big endian ones (ARM is technically bi-endian too).

I have no clue why that matters, since the post that we were discussing obviously references the X86/X64 version.
Although...when it come to compatibility, the 68K version still has a long way to go.
And ARM? I was actually one of the people advocating that ISA until the developers decided on X64.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»08.03.17 - 18:25

BSzili

# 53
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 559 from 2012/6/8

From: Hungary

Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Somewhere around its inception. It's binary compatible on m68k, and source code compatible on the rest.

AROS is not source and binary compatible.

But on 68k one can add libraries and patches from oryginal Amiga Os and made 68k AROS
enough source and binary compatible.

AROS x86 is of course worth nothing shit.

AROS x86 was shit, AROS x86 is shit and AROS x86 will be shit.

It is simple.

CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility.

AROS x86 have to have all drawbacks of original amiga os removed at time of change api to not compatybile.

AROS for LE cpu should be amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

AROS x86 with cheated SMP is set of hacks still with out memory protection.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :)

Not really, if its a fairly obvious fact.
And "CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility", isn't worded that well, but it is factual.
Endian mode does greatly affect compatibility (although, conversely, it makes porting from other little endian platforms easier).

Yawn. AROS runs on multiple CPU architectures, which includes two 32-bit big endian ones (ARM is technically bi-endian too).

I have no clue why that matters, since the post that we were discussing obviously references the X86/X64 version.
Although...when it come to compatibility, the 68K version still has a long way to go.
And ARM? I was actually one of the people advocating that ISA until the developers decided on X64.

It matters as much as the lone sentence you picked out of his rant rebuts what I said.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
»08.03.17 - 18:43

Jim

# 54
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Somewhere around its inception. It's binary compatible on m68k, and source code compatible on the rest.

AROS is not source and binary compatible.

But on 68k one can add libraries and patches from oryginal Amiga Os and made 68k AROS
enough source and binary compatible.

AROS x86 is of course worth nothing shit.

AROS x86 was shit, AROS x86 is shit and AROS x86 will be shit.

It is simple.

CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility.

AROS x86 have to have all drawbacks of original amiga os removed at time of change api to not compatybile.

AROS for LE cpu should be amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

AROS x86 with cheated SMP is set of hacks still with out memory protection.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :)

Not really, if its a fairly obvious fact.
And "CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility", isn't worded that well, but it is factual.
Endian mode does greatly affect compatibility (although, conversely, it makes porting from other little endian platforms easier).

Yawn. AROS runs on multiple CPU architectures, which includes two 32-bit big endian ones (ARM is technically bi-endian too).

I have no clue why that matters, since the post that we were discussing obviously references the X86/X64 version.
Although...when it come to compatibility, the 68K version still has a long way to go.
And ARM? I was actually one of the people advocating that ISA until the developers decided on X64.

It matters as much as the lone sentence you picked out of his rant rebuts what I said.

Right...except what he said, at least in that one instance, was correct.
And all NG OS' have compatibility issues.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»08.03.17 - 18:48

terminills

# 55
Butterfly

Posts: 100 from 2012/3/12

Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Somewhere around its inception. It's binary compatible on m68k, and source code compatible on the rest.

AROS is not source and binary compatible.

But on 68k one can add libraries and patches from oryginal Amiga Os and made 68k AROS
enough source and binary compatible.

AROS x86 is of course worth nothing shit.

AROS x86 was shit, AROS x86 is shit and AROS x86 will be shit.

It is simple.

CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility.

AROS x86 have to have all drawbacks of original amiga os removed at time of change api to not compatybile.

AROS for LE cpu should be amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

AROS x86 with cheated SMP is set of hacks still with out memory protection.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :)

Not really, if its a fairly obvious fact.
And "CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility", isn't worded that well, but it is factual.
Endian mode does greatly affect compatibility (although, conversely, it makes porting from other little endian platforms easier).

Yawn. AROS runs on multiple CPU architectures, which includes two 32-bit big endian ones (ARM is technically bi-endian too).

I have no clue why that matters, since the post that we were discussing obviously references the X86/X64 version.
Although...when it come to compatibility, the 68K version still has a long way to go.
And ARM? I was actually one of the people advocating that ISA until the developers decided on X64.

It matters as much as the lone sentence you picked out of his rant rebuts what I said.

Right...except what he said, at least in that one instance, was correct.
And all NG OS' have compatibility issues.

Jim don't confuse speed with compatibility. AROS 68K is actually very much source and binary compatible. As for i386(Abiv1) and x64 they are both source level compatible.
»08.03.17 - 19:10

Jim

# 56
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

terminills wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

BSzili wrote:
Somewhere around its inception. It's binary compatible on m68k, and source code compatible on the rest.

AROS is not source and binary compatible.

But on 68k one can add libraries and patches from oryginal Amiga Os and made 68k AROS
enough source and binary compatible.

AROS x86 is of course worth nothing shit.

AROS x86 was shit, AROS x86 is shit and AROS x86 will be shit.

It is simple.

CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility.

AROS x86 have to have all drawbacks of original amiga os removed at time of change api to not compatybile.

AROS for LE cpu should be amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.

AROS x86 with cheated SMP is set of hacks still with out memory protection.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :)

Not really, if its a fairly obvious fact.
And "CPU change to one that not support 32 bit big endian mode already breaks compatybility", isn't worded that well, but it is factual.
Endian mode does greatly affect compatibility (although, conversely, it makes porting from other little endian platforms easier).

Yawn. AROS runs on multiple CPU architectures, which includes two 32-bit big endian ones (ARM is technically bi-endian too).

I have no clue why that matters, since the post that we were discussing obviously references the X86/X64 version.
Although...when it come to compatibility, the 68K version still has a long way to go.
And ARM? I was actually one of the people advocating that ISA until the developers decided on X64.

It matters as much as the lone sentence you picked out of his rant rebuts what I said.

Right...except what he said, at least in that one instance, was correct.
And all NG OS' have compatibility issues.

Jim don't confuse speed with compatibility. AROS 68K is actually very much source and binary compatible. As for i386(Abiv1) and x64 they are both source level compatible.

So you both keep saying, but the X86/X64 versions are running on a little endian cpu which does cause compatibility issues.
And no AROS port has full support for all libraries.

Basically, every port is going to require some work-arounds.

Compatibility? By that I assume you just recompile it and it works?

And now that you mention it, AROS 68K IS damned slow.

Edit: Sorry that IS a bit inaccurate. OS friendly ports for the most part do NOT require any alteration.
AROS is certain as close to binary compatibility as we are ever likely to see.

And I wish the development team nothing but good fortune (just remembered I had friends working on this).

Just ignore the over the top BS guys.
I'd edit it out, but then the post would only serve to bolster my opinion (that a compatible X86/X64 OS is kind of pointless if you have to alter code to suit the endian structure of the new cpu).

Still, as a project, pretty damned impressive.

AND, in a fork to X64, we'll face the same challenges porting existing code (with potentially less API support).
So, AROS? Still my second favorite NG OS.

[ Edited by Jim 08.03.2017 - 17:52 ]
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»08.03.17 - 19:21

terminills

# 57
Butterfly

Posts: 100 from 2012/3/12

Quote:

Jim wrote:
So you both keep saying, but the X86/X64 versions are running on a little endian cpu which does cause compatibility issues.
And no AROS port has full support for all libraries.

Basically, every port is going to require some work-arounds.

That depends entirely on how it was designed in the first place. Source that was designed to be endian agnostic in the first place has no issue at all. If there is an issue(bug). It can and should be fixed in the OS not the application.

Quote:

Compatibility? By that I assume you just recompile it and it works?

Yes that is exactly what I mean. You may think I bought FinalWriter so AROS would have a wordprocessor. That's only part of the reason. I bought it also to help find bugs in AROS to allow cleaner ports. ;)

Quote:

And now that you mention it, AROS 68K IS damned slow.

Merely the gui is damned slow iirc that is actually part of the icon.library's fault.

Quote:

Edit: Sorry that IS a bit inaccurate. OS friendly ports for the most part do NOT require any alteration.
AROS is certain as close to binary compatibility as we are ever likely to see.

And I wish the development team nothing but good fortune (just remembered I had friends working on this).

I seriously don't get the whole us vs them mentality that goes on in this community. As someone who has spent $1000's on what to me is a hobby it makes no sense.

Quote:

Just ignore the over the top BS guys.
I'd edit it out, but then the post would only serve to bolster my opinion (that a compatible X86/X64 OS is kind of pointless if you have to alter code to suit the endian structure of the new cpu).

Reversing data structure based on the endian of a CPU is less of a big deal than making sure the OS is handling the API properly. ;)

Quote:

Still, as a project, pretty damned impressive.

AND, in a fork to X64, we'll face the same challenges porting existing code (with potentially less API support).
So, AROS? Still my second favorite NG OS.
»09.03.17 - 10:38

Jim

# 58
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Yes, the us against them thing is overblown.
I get it most from the OS4 fanatics, and not all OS4 users are that fanatical (some of our posters have copies of that).
And I need to remember that I have some friends in both of the other two "camps" (heck, there are four factions if you count the legacy only guys/gals).

The purchase of FinalWriter was a pretty cool move.
I am definitely in favor of native apps.
The Linux ports like Firefox or OpenOffice just slow us down further.

One thread I see in not just my life, but everyone's in general, is a need to be less confrontational and more open.

I was a little biased against AROS by my earlier experiences (but then, all Amiga OS related projects were a slight challenge for me originally, I am NOT a "native" to this environment).
Once the drivers progressed a bit more, and especially after I saw some of the cool OpenGL demos (GLxcess in particular) I have too admit, I have definitely grown in my appreciation of the OS.

Then there are the bounty programs (some promoted by Bill Buck's Power2people organization), hey successful funding...cool.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»09.03.17 - 11:11

Intuition

# 59
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24

From: Nederland

@Tim

Does using PeterK's 68k icon.library solve the slowness issue with aros68k?

I remember reading that work was being done on getting aros to compile with vbcc to see if it improves the performance of the generated code compared to newer versions of gcc. Did anything come of that?

[ Edited by Intuition 09.03.2017 - 11:35 ]
1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
»09.03.17 - 11:28

terminills

# 60
Butterfly

Posts: 100 from 2012/3/12

Quote:

Intuition wrote:
@Tim

Does using PeterK's 68k icon.library solve the slowness issue with aros68k?

I remember reading that work was being done on getting aros to compile with vbcc to see if it improves the performance of the generated code compared to newer versions of gcc. Did anything come of that?

I would ask wawa iirc he's very much into finding the slowness in AROS 68K right now.
»09.03.17 - 11:47