@hooligan,

Quote:

1 to 5000 new registrations for G4 PowerBooks within the first year of it's release. That is a sure bet if I ever saw one. Wouldn't it be fantastic if you were wrong and by some miracle there were over 5000 users interested in running MorphOS3.0 on a G4 PowerBook?

To suddenly have a user base in excess of 5000 again (or for the first time, I don't know if there were ever more than 5000 MorphOS users when it was free in the pre 2.0 days).

I wonder which platform will be more popular and receive more purchases, MorphOS3.0 registrations only for G4 PowerBooks, or purchases of Hyperion Netbooks to run OS4? We will never know, as Hyperion will never release sales numbers for their Netbooks and the MorphOS Dev. Team will most likely not tell us how many new registrations of MorphOS3.0 are for G4 PowerBooks, instead of registrations for other compatible hardware, after MorphOS3.0 is released. Although we can probably assume that most new registrations after the initial release of MorphOS3.0 will be for G4 PowerBooks.

I think that MorphOS3.0 on G4 PowerBooks will out sell OS4 for the Netbook, but I am not familiar with what the size of the current OS4 community is and their willingness to purchase a $300 to $500 Netbook to give themselves a portable OS4 machine, so I may be wrong and surprised by how many they can sell. We are already aware that the brand name still carries much weight with many of the remaining Amiga community. I think the number of sales may be close to being the same, but who can predict such things these days. I know that I will not be buying a Hyperion OS4 Netbook, no matter what the price ends up being. The price of the two portable PPC Amiga inspired systems appears to be very close to being the same, depending on where you live. I purchased my 15" model 1138 PowerBook for $199, plus shipping, but have seen many more similar G4 PowerBooks sell for $250 to $350, or more. That plus the 111.11 euro registration price brings the total price of a MorphOS3.0 PowerBook up to, or a little more than the $500 upper price quoted for the Hyperion Netbook. The performance difference between the two systems will be great, but that will make no difference, and will not discourage most of the potential Netbook buyers. We have already been shown that most OS4 users do not care which system runs faster, or better. Their brand loyalty and preference toward OS4 in most cases is unwavering. I don't want these comments to open the door to any debate, or criticism of either choice, or system. They are not meant as any kind of criticism to anyone. I have my own preference in MorphOS, but have no animosity toward OS4 users and their preferences, and I give them some credit for their loyalty, even if I don't agree with their reasons for giving it.

[ Edited by amigadave 17.12.2011 - 15:24 ]

> I think that MorphOS3.0 on G4 PowerBooks will out sell OS4 for the
> Netbook, but I am not familiar with what the size of the current OS4
> community is and their willingness to purchase a $300 to $500
> Netbook to give themselves a portable OS4 machine

I think there will also be buyers of the OS4 netbook who aren't currently members of the OS4 community.

I agree.

19th December..
Tic Tac Tic Tac Tic Tac Tic Tac...

Time passes. . .

6 more days? Or 11?

Patience.
Try meditation... ohhmmm =)

Quote:

OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines that are slower than previous ones. It appears this will be the slowest OS4 machine yet.

It must be bad enough that smartphones are chasing their high end machine - but having your laptop clobbered by a -low end- smartphone is just plain embarrassing.

> OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines that are
> slower than previous ones.

Do you remember the machine that followed the Pegasos II in running MorphOS?

> It appears this will be the slowest OS4 machine yet.

It will be faster than PowerUP Amigas. And it will for sure be the most mobile OS4 machine :-)

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

For many of us it has been the MacMini that is faster than Pegasos II, after that you have been able to run MorphOS on PowerMac MDDs that can be still faster and soon many of us will have MorphOS running on Powerbooks with 1,67Ghz G4, DDR2 Ram and Radeon 9700 GFX boards.. So a faster again machine..

Efika was for different purposes..

[ Edited by Miky060 19.12.2011 - 17:44 ]

And a netbook (not a laptop) is for a different purpose than a desktop machine.

There was a long time when the Efika was the only machine you could get.

I played a bit with MacOS and I think it's boring. Even the PowerBook seems to be bored of it.

Just two more weeks.

>>> OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines that are
>>> slower than previous ones.

>> Do you remember the machine that followed the Pegasos II
>> in running MorphOS?

> For many of us it has been the MacMini

The MorphOS machine that followed the Pegasos II was the Efika 5200B, not any Mac. That's a fact you can't dispute and would hold true even if there was not one single Pegasos II owner who purchased an Efika 5200B.

> Efika was for different purposes..

...as will be the OS4 netbook compared to the X1000. So your point being?

> There was a long time when the Efika was the only machine you could get.

Absolutely. It was 1.3 years, from the introduction of MorphOS for the Efika 5200B in June 2008 until the introduction of Mac mini support in October 2009. And in the 1.6 preceding years, starting after the sale of the last new Pegasos II boards end of 2006, you couldn't get a MorphOS machine easily, not even an underpowered one like the Efika 5200B. That makes in sum about 3 years between the last Pegasos II boards and the emergence of Mac support.

I completely agree with Andreas_Wolf in his last few posts in this thread (what a surprise ).

I also hope that negative comments like the one minator made will stop, or become less frequent, even here on MorphZone.org. There are OS4 users that read threads here, though not too many I would imagine.

There is nothing positive to be gained by making childish negative comments about OS4 and I would hope that most, or all of us here can move on to more productive ways of promoting MorphOS, as ridiculing OS4 has proved to have the opposite effect on most of the rest of the Amiga community.

I know that I have expressed my opinions on how to promote MorphOS, and more specifically how NOT to promote MorphOS here more times than most people want to remember, so I won't go into details again. But I will urge all members here and users of MorphOS to refrain from disrespecting OS4 users and developers. It only hurts our chances of gaining more MorphOS users and I cannot stress enough how important it is to have a larger user base and more developers.

It is the difference between being nothing more than a large club, or a worldwide community of thriving users and developers that sustains itself, or better yet, grows over time.

MorphOS is a better OS on cheaper and faster hardware that is easier for most people to obtain. We don't need to degrade anything, or anyone to promote our OS of choice.

[ Edited by amigadave 19.12.2011 - 17:17 ]

Quote:

Efika costed a fraction of Pegasos price. Compare that to current OS4 hardware prices and compare the price/performance ratio to older Pegasos boards. Do you honestly think that it is normal that they release machines 7 years later than Peg1/2 with that poor price/performance ratio? Peg1/2 win in many performance tests and are 7-8 years older.

>>> OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines
>>> that are slower than previous ones.

>> Do you remember the machine that followed the Pegasos II
>> in running MorphOS?

> Efika costed a fraction of Pegasos price.

And the OS4 netbook is supposed to cost a fraction of the X1000 price. So your point being?

> Compare that to current OS4 hardware prices and compare
> the price/performance ratio to older Pegasos boards.

Why should I? That comparison would have nothing to do with the point minator was trying to make and to which I responded.

> Do you honestly think that it is normal that they
> release machines 7 years later than Peg1/2 with
> that poor price/performance ratio?

No, I don't. And I really wonder how you read such unrelated things from my response to minator.

> Peg1/2 win in many performance tests and are 7-8 years older.

No objection to that, but again, this has nothing to do with minator's (failed) point and my response to it, to which you just replied.

Quote:

Are you kidding?

AmigaWorld.net used to have a "say only nice things" policy.
As a result the vendors were able to royally shaft the OS4 users.
When people complained about problems they were shunted into a neat "private" area or told there were no problems - and subsequently PM'd by people who then admitted there were problems.

There will always be comments, positive or negative. That's how forums work. A "say only nice things" policy is a very, very bad idea.


OTOH Complaining about deliberate trolling is a perfectly valid comment.
But I wasn't doing that. If I wanted to troll OS4 users I'd be agitating in OS4 specific treads in places where they are actually likely to be reading them.

But you might notice, I don't do that. I'm not interested in trolling.

There's a big difference between saying what's bad, or needs fixing, about MorphOS on a forum about MorphOS and slagging off AmigaOS4.1

Quote:
Comparing vaporware with real products is not a good idea. You should do better. Sams are in general both slower and more expensive than the Peg2 released years ago, so in general Minator's post is right. Last Efikas had even better price/performance ratio than Peg2/G4.

Quote:

It has a lot to do with the point Minator was discussing: OS4 hardware turns both more expensive and slower(sam) than previous hardware (Peg2, A1)

Quote:

Peg2 runs OS4 so it's totally related.

Quote:

It has a lot to do: OS4 hardware has got slower (like sam, and in addition to that more expensive). More expensive (x1000). And if that vaporware netbook thingie got released ever it will be slower than ever.

Efikas costed $99 ~ 75Euro without VAT. Price/performance ratio was pretty good, unlike current OS4 hardware (and future vaporware).

[ Edited by Crumb 21.12.2011 - 17:13 ]

..weren't we speaking about Morphos 3.0!?


WHEN WILL IT BE OUT?????

Did anyone actually say it would definitely be out this year? I'm sure I heard something about after Novemeber, check, but not that it would definatly be out this year... Errr Andreas, link me till I barf!

FYI I was making an observation:

Sam 440 OTOH was the replacement to the A1 G4, a significant reduction in performance - without an equivalent cost reduction.

Efika is not an equivalent because, it was a low end, low cost machine. It was never intended as a replacement to the Pegasos.

The 460 is better, putting them back into G4 type performance land.
The X1000 is a lot better again. It's very expensive for what it is, but I'm sure this will be a very nice machine for those interested.

If the new laptop is the Limebook with the 5121e, it'll be even slower than the Sam440 so the slowest machine yet. It'll be a lot lower priced than the X1000 but it'll get creamed by £50 tablets (search eBay for "tablet allwinner A10").

I grew up with the Amiga. It was a low cost but cutting edge machine. It horrendous to see what it getting beaten by the lowest end machines you can buy!

Hmm.. Shall I start up a thread on oh, I dunno, Amigians.org, and point out just how long it's been (over a year) since the last update, despite a "fully working" demo on a Powerbook, like years ago it's STILL not out yet? No one's seen anything of this G5 version since the demo, again years ago.

OMG work has stopped, it's deader than a dormouse etc. etc.


Can you see how 'unhelpful' that would be? Can you see how like your observation that would be?

[ Edited by stephen_robinson 21.12.2011 - 16:35 ]

>>>>> OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines
>>>>> that are slower than previous ones.

>>>> Do you remember the machine that followed the Pegasos II
>>>> in running MorphOS?

>>> Efika costed a fraction of Pegasos price.

>> And the OS4 netbook is supposed to cost a fraction of the X1000 price.
>> So your point being?

> Comparing vaporware with real products is not a good idea.

Tell that to minator, not to me. He is the one who talked about those vapor products. I just replied to him. Moreover, we already *know* that an OS4 netbook (vapor or not) would be much less performant than the X1000 (or Pegasos II or Eyetech AmigaOne) the same way the Efika 5200B is much less performant than the Pegasos II, which was the previously released MorphOS hardware.

> It has a lot to do with the point Minator was discussing: OS4 hardware turns
> both more expensive and slower(sam) than previous hardware (Peg2, A1)

You forgot the X1000, which is a previous hardware to the OS4 netbook. And the OS4 netbook, which is what minator was referring to in his statement, is supposed to be much *less* expensive than the X1000. Moreover, the X1000 is *faster* than Pegasos II, Eyetech AmigaOne and Sam, not slower. Additionally, minator in his posting I replied to didn't say a single word about price but only about speed. So please refrain from moving the goalposts, thanks.
And I stand by my claim that the OS4 netbook is supposed to be slower than the X1000 the same way the Efika 5200B is slower than the Pegasos II. You bringing the price into play is an unfair attempt at moving the goalposts as minator wasn't referring to the price point and neither was I in my response to him. So no, your comparison has nothing to do with the point minator was trying to make.

> Peg2 runs OS4 so it's totally related.

How does the fact that for instance the Sam440 is slower than the Peg2 negate my claim that minator's statement that "OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines that are slower than previous ones" (remember that this is what I replied to, nothing else) is nonsense especially when made in a MorphOS forum where everybody (except for newbies maybe) should know that the Efika 5200B was slower than the Peg2?

> OS4 hardware has got slower (like sam,

And it got faster as well, like the X1000.

> and in addition to that more expensive). More expensive (x1000).

...and it will get cheaper with the OS4 netbook, which is the hardware minator was referring to in his statement to which I replied.

> if that vaporware netbook thingie got released ever it will be slower than ever.

...the same way the Efika 5200B was slower than ever for MorphOS.

> Efikas costed $99 ~ 75Euro without VAT. Price/performance ratio
> was pretty good, unlike current OS4 hardware

Again, minator wasn't referring to price, only to performance. That's what I responded to. Please don't read your own fantasies into my posts and then make nonsensical assumptions about what I "honestly think", thanks. Besides, the OS4 netbook (if it gets released that is) will be much cheaper than the X1000.
But all that price discussion is mute here anyway as that's not what minator and me were talking about and especially as it doesn't change my whole point, which has been from the beginning and still is: minator's statement that "OS4 must be the only platform that brings out machines that are slower than previous ones" is nonsense as proven by the fact the the Pegasos II was followed by the Efika 5200B.