The best thing OS4 followers could do to stop worrying about the future is switch to MorphOS and enjoy it right now

OS4 is apparently no longer developed as it has not received real updates for ages, just empty promises and ultra-expensive/ultra-slow hardware.

The only thing Amiga OS4.x could offer to MorphOS is the Amiga name. Ben Hermans usually sues his partners so I don't think doing business with him is a good idea. He even stole AmigaOS from Amiga.

If I wanted to use Gallium, QT, shared objets, UAE and a fancy desktop I would use Linux and everything would run much better than with half-assed quick ports of linux CLI tools, slow x11/qt apps that don't integrate nor share amiga phylosophy or slow browser.

OS4 is a worthless try to reinvent the wheel with a square result.

Collaboration with AROS makes sense and is already done from time to time but collaboration with something of low quality that tries to mimic linux is not something any amigan would desire, unless he has been brainwashed to think that linux is amiga.

@ Crumb

Although we are blue and want our favourite OS to succeed: this is nonsense. OS4 is not better or worse developing than MOS. Both develop slowly. But both go on. So does AROS. There is none better than the other, so please stop this Apple rubbish talk "we are better than you, you should give up and join us to become happy!".

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I disagree, both MorphOS and AROS are quite ahead of OS4.

> If I wanted to use [...] UAE [...] I would use Linux

I think UAE doesn't really belong in your list as it's also used by MorphOS users as the only way to run hardware-hitting Amiga software on their OS of choice.

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It does since I can't run system-friendly (nor system-unfriendly) apps directly on Linux. An uae launcher is not transparent emulation for me.

>> I think UAE doesn't really belong in your list as it's also used by MorphOS users
>> as the only way to run hardware-hitting Amiga software on their OS of choice.

> It does since I can't run system-friendly (nor system-unfriendly) apps directly on Linux.

Then it seems I completely missed the point of your list. I thought that

"The only thing Amiga OS4.x could offer to MorphOS is the Amiga name. [...] If I wanted to use Gallium, QT, shared objets, UAE and a fancy desktop I would use Linux"

was meant to list software or components that are available (or announced) for both OS4 and Linux (while running better on Linux) but not available (nor announced) for MorphOS. After all, what would be the point in offering MorphOS something it already has?

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I don't use MorphOS to run GTK/QT/windows apps, if I didn't care about MorphOS nor Amiga I would be happily running gtk/qt/windows/whatever gui of your choice apps. I prefer amiga/morphos native apps than quick'n'dirty linux ports (including alien toolkits). If I had to run linux apps with linux gui on a slow x11 gui I could use a quad-core pc that will run it much better.

PS: OS4.x doesn't have Gallium (poor internal non public slow pre-alpha internal software-only version = vaporware for me) nor shared objects (non shared objects aren't shared, but in contrast we have proper morphos shared libraries). UAE runs slower on OS4 than it does on MorphOS and running an alien toolkit on MorphOS is not something I dream about, you could recompile it to run on Geek Gadgets but I wouldn't find it appealing nor much useful.

[ Edited by Crumb 12.11.2013 - 18:15 ]

> I don't use MorphOS to run GTK/QT/windows apps

But do you sometimes run UAE on MorphOS? :-)

> OS4.x doesn't have Gallium

Yes, hence "or announced".

> UAE runs slower on OS4 than it does on MorphOS

Interesting. Do you have benchmarks, preferably on a Pegasos II?

I dont understand about Qbox, Abox etc...I was away from Amiga a few years. Can anyone explain it to me? I dont understand BLUEvsRED war either...We lost more than we gain I think.

> I dont understand about Qbox, Abox etc... [...] Can anyone explain it to me?

Just click the link in posting #23. You find some resources at the link target.

> "Qbox" was a name/fantasy invented by Thendic over 10 years ago. [...]
> A misunderstanding of how MorphOS works"
> [...] I will admit that that one is telling. If that is the case, then Quark may not be suited
> to some of the things people have been asking for.

I have now added a quote of a former Thendic employee's counter statement to the posting in the other thread.

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rarely. My 1200 is located to the left of my Mini so no need for that. I probably have spend more time writting a GUI for it (unfinished yet) than running it

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I don't have a peg2. MorphOS UAE uses overlay, OS4 UAE doesn't, that should give you some hints about performance. OSX version is slower too. If you have a Mac Mini you can fire up Moana and give it a go (no sound, but could be a substitute). I don't have time for that, sorry.

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+1

Very well formulated, I completely agree! Couldn't have said it better myself!

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+1 here as well.

The difference is so huge that even making comparisons is pointless...

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Good news is that nobody have to understand any of that in order to be a happy MorphOS user today!

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It's quite simple. In the early 2000 bPlan and Genesi (I think) announced the Pegasus PPC computer and MorphOS in the hopes that the Amiga community would switch to it. The reason was years and years of empty promises from Amiga Inc. and some hard core Amiga fans got fed up with that and decided to make it happen themselves. But the massive shift didn't happen, and instead a lot of angry Amigans started attacking MorphOS and it's developers intention. Bill Hermans from Hyperion also joined in the bashing, claiming that MorphOS was based on stolen AmigaOS 3.1 code and that it was trying to ride on the "future success of AmigaOS". New MorphOS users on their hand accused AmigaOS 4 of being vaporware and that Amiga Inc. simply was afraid of competition since they didn't have anything beyond their name to sell and tried to live yet a few more years on expectations only.

Nowadays feelings have cooled but the fight blossoms up even today. It's a pretty pointless fight now, but back then it had it's reasons. Not all good reasons though.

Seem to recall that the pegasos and "morphos" was the ng amiga system, until amiga inc didt pay their bills ? ;P

Andreas? quessing you have some quotes ? ;D

X

>>> UAE runs slower on OS4 than it does on MorphOS

>> Interesting. Do you have benchmarks, preferably on a Pegasos II?

> I don't have a peg2.

Well, it could have been the case that someone has and has published such benchmarks.

> MorphOS UAE uses overlay, OS4 UAE doesn't

Thanks for this info. I wasn't aware that OS4 UAE doesn't use overlay even on hardware which OS4 has overlay-enabled graphics drivers for.

> you can fire up Moana and give it a go

I don't own an OS4 license so this could be illegal, so won't go there ;-) Apart from that, Moana can run OS4.0 only so it wouldn't be a fair comparison with a recent MorphOS version.

>> both MorphOS and AROS are quite ahead of OS4.

> +1 here as well. The difference is so huge that even making comparisons is pointless...

So you're going to spare us these from now on? ;-)

Some corrections and remarks:

> In the early 2000 bPlan and Genesi (I think) announced the Pegasus PPC computer
> and MorphOS

1. The Pegasos was announced in December 2000.
2. Genesi wasn't part of the picture back then. Not even was its "predecessor" Thendic-France, which came into play only in August 2001.
3. MorphOS was announced in December 1999 by the MorphOS developers. First release was in August 2000. It was never a bplan product although it was supposed to be one of the two main OS for the Pegasos (the other one being Linux).

> Hermans from Hyperion also joined in the bashing, claiming that MorphOS was based
> on stolen AmigaOS 3.1 code

Yes, but let's not forget who really started this claim:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7824&start=32

> and that it was trying to ride on the "future success of AmigaOS".

To be more precise, the specific claim was about "unfair and parasitic competition", referring to MorphOS' ability to run m68k AmigaOS executables.

> Seem to recall that the pegasos and "morphos" was the ng amiga system, until
> amiga inc didt pay their bills ? ;P

It had nothing to do with Amiga Inc. paying or not paying anything. Before Hyperion started their OS4 project in late 2001, Amiga Inc.'s own OS4 project was running since early 2001, with Fleecy Moss acting as the project lead, H&P supposed to do the core OS, P96 Team contributing the 2D part and Hyperion the 3D part (and several other parties like Olaf "olsen" Barthel). Needless to say that this project went nowhere especially with H&P starting to promote Amithlon and AmigaXL and the subsequent discord with Amiga Inc.
It was during this timeframe that negotiations between the MorphOS developers and Amiga Inc. took place with the aim to have MorphOS published as AmigaOS4. Both negotiations (1st early 2001 and 2nd mid 2001) failed due to Amiga Inc. wanting too much control over OS development decisions for the MorphOS developers' liking.

> Andreas? quessing you have some quotes ? ;D

Some links should do:

http://www.diff.org/diff/sette/amigaos4e.shtml
http://anna.amigazeux.org/comments2.cgi?view=1002052615&category=forum

Well, atleast I wasn't completly off

[ Edited by Yasu 13.11.2013 - 19:03 ]

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At least from my personal more or less daily experience with both MorphOS and AmigaOS I'll disagree: It (MorphOS) isn't. (Though I don't know AROS - so that one might be true).

@ Crumb

you stated:
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which is just wrong. Even me as a non OS4 user but just an occasional reader knows this. Many better informed users like cha05e90 could tell you eaxctly what all has been updated and is in development. But your statement is so simply wrong for everybody to prove that there is no need to discuss about this any further.

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this can be your opinion which is mine, too, but it is not a fact as you try to state.

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shows that you prefer to throw oil into the fire instead of *really* thinking about what a good collaboration could be of benefit for MOS as well.



@ tolkien
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Exactly. this is what I try to show Crumb. We all lost. No one gained a little by the multiple divorces. This war has to come to end but that obviously is not Crumb's intention.

> Many better informed users like cha05e90 could tell you eaxctly what all has been updated

Yes, and it's even public information: http://update.amigaos.net