> MorphOS3.1 [...] still can't compare to any of the main stream operating systems in
> performance, features, and mostly in available software.

Regarding features and software availability I agree, but certainly not regarding performance. MorphOS' weakest point, which is its lack of memory protection, is at the same time the main cause for its fantastic performance. Message passing via pointers makes MorphOS faster than any of the main stream operating systems on the same hardware.

> MorphOS3.1 [...] runs very fast and efficient

Exactly.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Great point.
And revealing, because we don't have to do things the same way as others.
We could do it better.

I know you guys may find my angst confusing, but I didn't start out in the Amiga world.
And what appeals to me in MorphOS are strengths that are inherent in it, not necessarily things carried over from the Amiga. Which is why I like to see the focus change to us, and the the Amiga community do what it may.

They're an unappreciative lot for the most part anyway.

Surely it makes sense on ppc, too. But while I think an ISA switch (better: additional ISA) has to come sooner or later (I like ppc and think it's not entirely dead, but it's too risky to rely _exclusively_ on it).
If a (hypothetical) QBox comes first for PPC - well, okay. But one of the QBox things _I_ have in mind would be that QBox programmes are not endianess dependent and hence facilitate an ISA switch/addition.

[ Editiert durch Zylesea 21.11.2012 - 23:15 ]

No Zylesea,
PPC is not dead.
In fact, what we could do with the ncode/decode engine in some of the e6500 cored products would be way cool.

> Wade all the way through those threads. [...] those were pretty good.

Also through the IRC log?

Andreas, if I was able to go completely through all the references you throw out I'd have to be...you.
But I can always aspire.

>>> Wade all the way through those threads. [...] those were pretty good.

>> Also through the IRC log?

> Andreas, if I was able to go completely through all the references you
> throw out I'd have to be...you.

I take that as a "no" to my question ;-)

>And a significant percentage of these individuals already hold a bias against our OS.

Well, maybe they don't like being called Amigatards? It's a rather juvenile thing to say, don't you agree? Implying that all Amiga users are mentally retarded is hardly helpful, and isn't true in any case.

> what appeals to me in MorphOS are strengths that are inherent in it, not necessarily
> things carried over from the Amiga. Which is why I like to see the focus change to us,
> and the the Amiga community do what it may.

I believe that many of "us" (i.e. MorphOS users) actually are here especially for the Amiga-like things in MorphOS.

> In fact, what we could do with the ncode/decode engine in some of the
> e6500 cored products would be way cool.

What "ncode/decode engine" are you specifically referring to?

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:


Shown on so of the new Qorlq products next to the patter matching/security block, still digging.
Not present on the P2040. ;(

[ Edited by Jim 22.11.2012 - 01:37 ]

Minuous,
Quote:

Having been sorely abused lately in a far worse fashion I am beyond caring.
And I not implying, I stating that it would appear to be a fact.
The retards ARE out there.

> Shown on so of the new Qorlq products next to the patter matching/security block

I see. You mean the DCE (decompression/compression engine). According to the docs, it supports DEFLATE, GZIP, ZLIB and Base64. Neat.

> Not present on the P2040. ;(

Who would want to use the P2040 anyway?

@Jim
Quote:

Though that would be a wishful thinking, alone, it doesn't make really sense, imho. Suppose he invests money on MorphOS development, what happens afterwards? Nothing, because he should have also a hardware vendor and/or a commercial company capable of taking the risks to market their device(s) on the mainstream. An action that will require tremendous amount of money in contrast to our current niche/amigan economical scale.

If, in a parallel universe, TD could sponsor OS development, (another) Genesis could built (say) a mobile device and a company/entrepreneur tried to reach end customer (market, distribution actual sales) , then yes, MorphOS could have a future and should get rid 3.1. compatibility API asap.

However, this ain't gonna happen anytime soon, so let's continue on the same path :)

As for the YALD part, I wholehearted agree. MorphOS should stay as FAR away as possible from Linux solutions. Just fire up TW on OS4.1 and you will understand why (aside its current glitches etc), it just look and feels alien to the platform.

Still, dish it out, what happened recently and made you feel that way for the amigans? :P

Switching to x86/ARM isn´t just about loosing 68K compatiblity.

This is the one and only moment to not only drop massive shit we dragging for years (e.g. dos.libaries, BPTR, BSTR, Filesystems flaws, gfx planar, exposed exec base structure), but also to add features like multi core/cpu support, full 64Bit support, memory protection).

Adding those features later will only break the compatiblity once more and split up everything to make it even more complicated. They need to be done at that specific moment, or we end up with several incarnations of the same OS requiring not only cpu specific binaries, but also system feature specific.

Right now I don´t see a reason to do that.

First of all this is not a job done in a few weeks by such a small team. Especially when it comes to internals, where less than a hand full of MorphOS Team members have proper knowledge to adapt the code.

Second, even if it could be done quick in, lets say 2 years, then the ordinary MorphOS will not be updated/developed as development resources are split/moved.

Third, with the upcoming G5 support, we have even more power that is not used at all. Its just like having a Ferrari without any road. It makes no sense. We need applications. These are missing right now and faster/cheaper hardware support in two years will not help out here.

The only positive I personally can see about the G5 support is the possibility to run MorphOS PPC + MorphOS PPC64 on the very same hardware, so enhancing the system is less complicated while compile times are low. And of course non of the Software created by non MorphOS developers will run on the new bit 64 systems.

So after all, we waited at least 2 years for the new enhanced architecture swapped os, we have less software than before and the only positive factor is that the new hardware is more expensive than the old one and the few users left complain about the lack of software for the new system, like they do today.

Geit

> with the upcoming G5 support, we have even more power that is not used at all.

Opposed to what you believe, I'm sure there will be users who will make proper use of the G5 performance.

> It makes no sense.

Have you told that to bigfoot already? :-)

> MorphOS PPC + MorphOS PPC64 on the very same hardware

Are there plans for 64-bit MorphOS on PPC? If yes, I think the following slides may be interesting:

http://web.archive.org/web/20091229215004/http://lixom.net/~olof/lca.pdf

Quote:

Bit weird statement imo especially when G5 support will be done as a bounty so basically MorphOS Team has nothing to do with it (only one member). Not interested in bounty? Fair enough, but don't call that nonsense as it's quite offending for all interested/donors.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:
Yes, neat stuff.

@Geit
I don't care when it get's done as long as there is a commitment to move forward.
And I also don't care if Abox gets dragged along, as long as there's a better alternative.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091229215004/http://lixom.net/~olof/lca.pdf

Good reference and a great reason not to worry about 64 bit yet.

[ Edited by Jim 22.11.2012 - 21:47 ]

I personally enjoy MorphOS for what it is, for me it represents everything I hoped AmigaOS would have evolved into had things not gone pear-shaped back in the Phase 5 days - a straight PPC port with enhancements. It does everything I want, it runs my old software like stink as well as enabling more modern stuff to be ported or written. I don`t kid myself that we can return to 1990 and conquer the world and this is why I chose to invest in polishing what`s already there (drivers, hardware support, etc...) and not flushing money down the toilet trying to match Apple/MS/Google. That`s what Hyperion did and just look where it got them chasing features that they`ll never perfect.

Just enjoy what we have - pretend it`s 1998 and you`re running 3.1 on the Pre-box or whatever - you`ll be happier that way! I get more pleasure from finally running Fantastic Dreams buttery-smooth than I`d ever get from a half-arsed port of some heavy modern app that the system just isn`t up to and never will be.

Fraggle wrote:,
Quote:

I like your attitude and reasons for being supportive toward MorphOS3.x Fraggle! Very close to how I feel about it too. If MorphOS3.1 did not have any compatibility with and connection to the legacy of the Amiga, I doubt I would be interested in it at all.

That does not mean that I don't understand the many users who want to move forward and are not concerned about losing all backward compatibility with the Amiga parts of MorphOS in the process, but I hope this is a gradual process that will include what we currently have, until the new and improved MorphOS is completed and has as much, or more software available to run, than we currently have on PPC, not counting all of the thousands of old Amiga 68k software titles which run on MorphOS, or run emulated on E-UAE.

I am very glad that one of the MorphOS Dev. Team members has seen value and agreed to port MorphOS3.x to the G5 PowerMac, which might be the last port to any PPC hardware (unless Trevor is successful in pulling a rabbit out of his hat and produces a new PPC motherboard that is appealing to the MorphOS Dev. Team, which I hope he can, at a reasonable price). I think that more than one Team member has indicated that it will take a very long time, perhaps years, to port MorphOS to a new architecture. In the mean time I think that the users of MorphOS3.x should all learn how to program, and start coding new applications and games, or at least learn how to port software from the Linux community to MorphOS3.x, so we will have more software to run on the many different hardware models that are currently supported (and soon to be added to with G5 PowerMac support).

We have some pretty darn good hardware to run MorphOS3.x on right now, when you compare it to what we have had in the recent past (not compared to what Windows, Linux, or MacOSX runs on). It would be great if we could focus on more and better software for a while, and to get more users capable of coding, or at least porting software to MorphOS3.x.

Your support of several different recent projects Fraggle is greatly appreciated.

> port MorphOS3.x to the G5 PowerMac [...] might be the last port to any
> PPC hardware (unless Trevor [...] produces a new PPC motherboard
> that is appealing to the MorphOS Dev. Team [...]).

...and unless the ports to the iBook G4 (semi-announced) and iMac G5 (held out in prospect) occur only afterwards.

@Fraggle

Well stated, and pretty much my feelings too.

MorphOS has allowed me to continue to use the environment I'm comfortable with, but freed from the limitations of such outdated (and expensive) hardware.

@Fraggle

I can understand your POV.
And I'm really glad you kicked in the support where you did, because when I think of the things on my wish list R300 3D drivers, G5 support, and a decent word processor are a at the top of the list.

But that list also includes slowly improving what we already have. No, we are never going to take over the OS world. But it would be nice to have for our use.
And a more powerful system means more powerful apps.

I enjoy this OS and its development even if I can't share the same Amiga experience you have.
I discovered Morphos two years ago and installed it just out of curiosity and I don't regret it :)

@Fraggle

I feel the same as i grew up with the Amiga computer from the first A500 1.2 to the A4000 systems.
MOS fells right to use as if i was on my long gone 1200.
I wish i could use it more, which i am starting to do.
My biggest regret from the 80s and 90s was that i never took the plunge and learnt to code on the Amiga.
I have SASC here which i am trying to teach myself to use so i may one day contribute back to the community that this is coming from.

This OS is great thanks to everyone for there time and effort in making it what it is, for me at least so "THANK YOU ALL"


Graham