> Err... there have been improved Shell (compared to standard Shell in
> Workbench 3.1) since MorphOS 1.0 release (so called 'emmcon').

Yes, that's what I've referred to as "old shell", and what I believe danwood has referred to as "traditional Amiga shell" (at least I don't think he really meant the OS3.1 shell).

> New muicon-handler was added to release 2.0.

Exactly. This is why I don't get danwood's statement ("The traditional Amiga shell has been upgraded, MUICON it's called now" with MorphOS 3.0), when in fact it has been included for much longer already.
What I meant with "standard" is the default command line, i.e. the one that's active after a fresh install. That's still *not* MUICON, or am I wrong here (danwood's says "MUICON" in the title, which my says not)? It was my idea that the Pack Ultimate may have changed danwood's shell config from default one to using MUICON.

Andreas_Wolf,

I accept I may have made some assumptions or factual errors in the video. I hope you'll give me some leeway since I've only been a MOS user for around 12 months, I'm still learning.

1. Fair enough, I was never a classic PPC user, I have heard of PowerUP and WarpOS, I know they were competing systems, I wasn't sure of the hardware though tbh, I was out of the Amiga scene by this point.

2. OK, I was basing this on JPV's article, which I thought read "only the 1.5ghz model is supported", he's either updated it since, or I misread it.

3. tbh AROS often falls off my radar yes.

4. 8 months could be classed as "nearly" a year :)

5. With FryingPan, again I was just going by what I was told in #morphos. When I downloaded the 3.0 ISO I had people telling me to use MakeCD as FryingPan was paid for only to burn, so just assumed this to be the case, the version I have with my 2.7 install certainly didn't seem to work.

6. Ok, I presumed APDF was part of the Ultimate Pack.

7. Maybe I got a bit carried away with the claims of the improvements to the file-systems, admittedly.

8 & 9 .The claims of the warp3d speeds were really based on anecodal evidence from IRC, as I said though, I'm not a gamer on MOS so I have no real foundation or basis for the benchmarks, it's not really an area of the OS that interests me.

10. I was comparing to the "traditional Amiga shell" which means CON: in OS 3 to me. Compared to the native shell in OS3 and even OS 4 (which is pretty much the same), the morphos CLI is much more advanced, in this section I was describing a feature to those familiar with the Amiga CLI from the 68K days.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

I did.

>> that's what [...] I believe danwood has referred to as "traditional Amiga shell"
>> (at least I don't think he really meant the OS3.1 shell).

> I did.

Okay, then I misunderstood what you said there. My bad. I thought you were talking about the improvement of MorphOS 3.0 over MorphOS 2.x, not over OS3.1.

> I was basing this on JPV's article, which I thought read "only the 1.5ghz model
> is supported", he's either updated it since, or I misread it.

The history section of his article still shows it's the initial version, so I think he has not updated it yet. It reads:

"The most significant addition is a support for all 1.67GHz models of PowerBook G4 notebooks. One 1.5GHz model is actually supported too"
http://jpv.wmhost.com/morphos/morphos3/

> 8 months could be classed as "nearly" a year :)

Yes, it could. I think it's closer to half a year than to a year though :-)

> With FryingPan, again I was just going by what I was told in #morphos.

It's always better doing your own research than blindly believing what others want to make you believe :-)

> The claims of the warp3d speeds were really based on anecodal evidence from IRC

I think you're confusing things here, for instance the speed-improved TinyGL with Warp3D. Or were the people on IRC confusing this in the first place and you just adopted it?

> I have no real foundation or basis for the benchmarks

So how did you arrive at that stellar "400%" figure (when 50% is the reported max improvement)? Told by someone on IRC? I'd really like to know.

RE: the 1.5ghz model, I must have misread then, my eyes just saw "One 1.5GHz model is actually supported". I'll add a correction annotation to the video.

RE: Fryingpan, I did try to do my own research, I was speaking to a few users in IRC, I also scoured these forums for burning CD advice, and stumbled across this thread:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7623&forum=11#80314

Which said:

"afaik, FryingPan works flawlessly, but you have to register, it's not a free software. I burnt lots of cd images with no troubles..."

It seems it has been open-sourced since, but information on an obscure OS like MorphOS and the apps can be very difficult to track down, especially as I wasn't part of the community back then. Since users on IRC claimed this, a forum post claimed it as well, and that the project was dead, and I the version I had installed on my machine would not burn, it was a fair assumption to make imho. To be honest, outside of the IRC channel and this forum, there are not many more places to research MorphOS info.

Really you miss the point though, it was more showing that Cd burning is now in the OS itself, so there's no need for Fryingpan anyway.


The graphics "benchmarks" were really just a throw-away statement, as I paraphrased in the video "they've been improved and are faster, but I'm not a gamer so I have no idea, but claims vary from x to x" it wasn't really supposed to be a thorough statement, just a "yay they're faster, believe who you like, that's all I have".



[ Edited by danwood 18.06.2012 - 08:12 ]

> I must have misread then, my eyes just saw "One 1.5GHz model is
> actually supported". I'll add a correction annotation to the video.

Appreciated.

> It seems it has been open-sourced since

...and unrestricted binaries for MorphOS have been made available. There's nothing more to it from my side really. Here just a link to the proper thread (besides the one already linked to above):

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7953&forum=9

> I wasn't part of the community back then.

As can be seen from the threads linked to above, the open sourcing of FryingPan was in July/August 2011. While I can see that your MorphOS venture started no later than March 2011, I really don't know since when you consider yourself part of "the community", admittedly ;-)

> and that the project was dead

This may even be true for a change. Unfortunately, previously commercial projects going open source more often than not seems to mean that they won't be touched ever again by any developer, except for compiling the release state into unrestricted binaries for various platforms. I'm inclined to believe that this is the case for FryingPan as well.

> outside of the IRC channel and this forum, there are not many
> more places to research MorphOS info.

See above for two links to MorphZone threads about the open sourcing of FryingPan and the subsequent release of unrestricted binaries for MorphOS.

> Really you miss the point though, it was more showing that Cd burning
> is now in the OS itself, so there's no need for Fryingpan anyway.

You can be sure that I got your point. It's just that I wanted to clarify that the statement you gave about FryingPan in your review is untrue. Nothing more, nothing less. What you make of this, if anything, is your very own decision really.

> The graphics "benchmarks" were really just a throw-away statement,
> as I paraphrased in the video "[...] claims vary from x to x"

...with the latter "x" said to be "400%" by you. That's exactly why I asked you before where you got this strange number from, i.e. where you heard or read those exact "claims", but so far you've been dodging the question.

> it wasn't really supposed to be a thorough statement

400 is not even in the ballpark of 50.

> just a "yay they're faster, believe who you like, that's all I have".

I'd really decide for myself *who* to believe or not to believe, but in order to do that I'd need to know *who* has made that 400% claim in the first place.

Do yourself a favor and ignore Andreas. He is a troll who gets a kick out of agitating people. To this end, he takes third-party rumors and statements which he knows are false and presents them as true fact. He then completely ignores any and every correction of said "facts".

> Andreas [...] is a troll

I'm not, as you very well know.

> who gets a kick out of agitating people.

Who am I agitating?

> he takes third-party rumors and statements which he knows are false

That's true. I took the obviously false "400%" statement from the review video, debunked it as what it is and have asked the review author where/whom the statement originated from.

> and presents them as true fact.

That's a lie, Mr. liar. I don't present the "400%" claim as true fact. Actually, I did the exact opposite, which you'd know if you had even dared to read what I wrote.

> He then completely ignores any and every correction of said "facts".

That's funny as I am the very one who corrected the "400% fact". Why should I ignore my very own corrections?

redrumloa,
Quote:

This is due the player uses overlay, you can't snap that easy.
Though I might look into that when I find some time.

I've got a newer version of SnapIT in the pipeline but since I'm overbooked by work/life now I won't be able to implement to many things at each release.

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

I'm not dodging it, I'll be honest Andreas, I cannot remember where I heard it, somewhere in the recent MOS 3.0 discussions. Maybe I read it on a thread on here, Amigaworld.net, Amiga.org, even moobunny - or a news item on one of the sites, or on IRC, I don't really have the time to go trawling through them all again, and obviously just 'cos someone said it doesn't mean it's true I guess, so a source wouldn't be much help.

I recall reading something along the lines of "a theoretical 400% increase!", but I really cannot remember where from. It was really just a throw-away line, presented as anecdotal "evidence", I said I'd heard claims ranging from x to x, I didn't present it as an accurate benchmark or as a cold-hard fact.

Working full time and running my own business means I don't script my videos, just point the camera and chat shit from the top of my head based on things I've tried/read, seems some of it was not totally accurate then, my apologies, it was really just a video to show MOS 3 for the o/p and due to the lack of any other similar vids on Youtube.

[ Edited by danwood 18.06.2012 - 14:49 ]

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Ok yeah, I missed a news story/thread it seems. Again, a busy life means I don't always get time to see it all.

I did buy a Mini for MOS last year, but tbh I've only used it a lot in the last few months, I was more of an OS 4 user until recently, it's probably only been in the last 3-6 months I've been spending more time on MOS than OS4. There went a few months last summer when my Mini didn't get powered on for months.

[ Edited by danwood 18.06.2012 - 14:50 ]

Again, you should just ignore Andreas. He is not interested in serious discussion. He just wants to promote AndreasTruth(TM). In this case, there is a thread with a bunch of benchmarks of one single application. Of all of these benchmarks of a single application, he takes the benchmark which shows the worst possible performance gain, possibly due to a configuration error, and uses that as AndreasTruth(TM). Everything else he just calls AndreasLies(TM). He then goes into every single thread on MorphZone and other websites and says "MorphOS 3.0 is only AndreasTruth% faster than MorphOS 2.7, I was lied to, cry". That's all he does. Really.

> obviously just 'cos someone said it doesn't mean it's true I guess

Yeah, that's been my point exactly :-)

> I didn't present it as an accurate benchmark or as a cold-hard fact.

I know that, and my mind works well enough to recognize that what you were presenting as fact was not the benchmark result itself but the existence of reports about such benchmark result. Mind you, I never disputed that those reports existed and that you had come across them.

> Ok yeah, I missed a news story/thread it seems.

Two actually ;-)

> He is not interested in serious discussion.

You're wrong again.

> He just wants to promote AndreasTruth(TM).

I don't think there's anything like that, just truth.

> In this case, there is a thread with a bunch of benchmarks of one
> single application.

Yes, which happens to be the same application as mentioned by danwood.

> Of all of these benchmarks of a single application, he takes the
> benchmark which shows the worst possible performance gain

That's a lie, Mr. liar. I took the one with the best performance gain experienced (50%). All other performance gains reported in that thread with that particular application were lower, including your very own (44%).

> possibly due to a configuration error

As you very well know, the results have been confirmed by other users in that thread, ironically even by yourself. That speaks clearly against your "configuration error" fantasy.

> and uses that as AndreasTruth(TM).

If that means "AndreasTruth(TM)" == truth, then thanks, I'm honoured.

> Everything else he just calls AndreasLies(TM).

False on both accounts, as it's your lies I call lies.

> He then goes into every single thread on MorphZone

I already debunked this lie of yours.

> and other websites

And another lie.

> and says "MorphOS 3.0 is only AndreasTruth% faster than MorphOS 2.7

This "AndreasTruth" has proven to be coincident with "redrumloaTruth", "koszerTruth" and "CimTruth" in that other thread.

> I was lied to

By you, that is.

> cry".

Why should I say "cry"?

> That's all he does.

I think there's almost no proposition in your posting that is not a lie.

You wolves make my head ache. And yes I really HAVE to read all this :)

At least you have a good reason for those lost seconds of life...

(I'd self-edited this the first time, but in retrospect it's better said)
A_W, W_A: Can't you just take it to PM/IRC/Moo/a hotel room/ignore it? It's making this place incredibly dull, and is a waste of my life's breath scrolling past it.

[ Edited by boot_wb 18.06.2012 - 18:01 ]

> A_W [...]: Can't you just take it to PM/IRC/Moo/a hotel room/ignore it?

Lies about me posted in public I will refute in public. So my answer, only speaking for myself here, is a clear no.

And yet a clear, unambigous public posting stating "I will not rise to the bait" would:

a) be more concise and to the point;
b) give you something to link to, should it be required;
c) keep the forums more clear, readable and on-topic;
d) gain you more respect than the current 50-line-multi-quote-line-by-line reply; and
e) make everyone much happier, except possibly W_A, which would also make you happier.

Seriously, what do you think he wants? To "Wolf" Andreas, which is exactly what happens every time he pulls your strings.

Sigh. There goes another 5 minutes... whoosh!

> give you something to link to, should it be required

You obviously overlooked my links in my replies to him :-)

> Seriously, what do you think he wants?

I have no idea, except for his uttering of lies that is. So you should better ask him, as he should know.

I completely agree that Andreas' spamming/trolling of every single thread on MorphZone is dull. Unfortunately I am not expecting him to stop any time soon.

@Eliyahu

...and a quick couple of screengrab of a brushed-steel/brass skin I'm currently playing with :)

Windows & requesters
Desktop & MyMorphOS (atm)

I've yet to do anything to window borders, or anything involving the skinconfig as yet, so it ain't as good as I want it to be (yet). Learned a lot about MUI whilst doing it though...

> I completely agree that Andreas' spamming/trolling of every
> single thread on MorphZone is dull.

Agreeing with yourself here again?

> I am not expecting him to stop any time soon.

True, I won't stop refuting the lies you keep posting about me here.

Jambalah,
Quote:
Is that teh ultimate pack on your desktop, the one with the tool icons at the bottom? Where can I find it the link to download?

@Metalmac:
Andreas answered for me =) Yes, it's PolyNet dock bar in transparent mode and lower there is Statline bar.
@WeiXing3D:
well, not properly.... I used different elements to configure my Ambient: PolyNet, for the transparent bar, Statline, the info-bar under PolyNet, and Ambient dock bar, for the icon set on the upper side, on the Ambient screenbar. Ultimate pack offers a lot more,a complete set of programs and applications, a whole pack to customize a fresh MorphOS installation. Here, in my Pegasos-maze-experimental-hard disk, could be an adventure to install it...
About the download, Papiosaur, the creator of this enhancing suite, answered you in the other thread. 14 of July seems to be not so far