I often see claims from certain people that even the Efika is faster than SAM440, so I would like to see a benchmark comparison of Efika running MorphOS vs. SAM440 running OS4. And why not one with both of them running the same Linux distro?

[ Edited by kolla on 2009/11/6 1:47 ]

i'm wondering before saving for a new copy of MorphOS (for my Mac Mini), whether I should get MorphOS for that, or AmigaOS 4.1+quickfix for my Pegasos 2. I asked in my Amiga mailing group what is better/worst in Amiga OS compared to MorphOS (I've been using MorphOS for about 3 years now) and they are all political about it rather than just telling me what is better/worst. So far I can only see Amiga OS 4..1+quickfix is cheaper, but all other info I have so far, is that it is not as fast... Aside from me having a Mac Mini (which is faster than my Pegasos 2), perhaps someone here who has used both OSs extensively or has both give me their (non-political) opinions? Just cos I might choose to buy one of the OSs now doesn't mean I won't save up and buy the other later on...

[ Edited by zhulien on 2009/11/8 13:54 ]

Technically wise, AmigaOS 4 on Pegasos 2 has no advantages over MorphOS 2 on Pegasos 2. If you are MorphOS user for 3 years, you will be probably disappointed by OS4 Workbench. It has very limited functionality compared to Ambient. Also OS4 default GUI toolkit, ReAction, is a huge step back when compared to MUI, MUI 4 especially. The same for software, usually MorphOS programs are better integrated with the system and have more features than their AmigaOS 4 counterparts.

To sum it up I see no good reasons to buy AmigaOS 4 other than "political" or curiosity. Another reason (my one) may be developing and testing applications for this system.

[ Edited by Krashan on 2009/11/6 4:13 ]

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Compare it to the 1.42GHz or 1.5GHz version then, the difference is not that big anyway. The point would be to *establish* the differences between the current four *miga NG options people can choose from today, i.e. the Sam/OS4, the Peg2/OS4, the Peg2/MorphOS and the MacMini/MorphOS. Consumer enlightenment. Performance seems to be one of the most important factors judging by the general on-line discussions the last decade, and obviously there are some people who think there is no major difference between a Pegasos2 and a Sam, that L2 cache, Altivec, etc has no impact on performance, etc. Most of us know that there is a difference, but a comparison would show and establish the exact difference between the four options, in numbers, black on white.

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I haven't seen that a single time, not anywhere, and you see it *often*?

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Yes by all means, go ahead.


[ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2009/11/6 8:25 ]

Quote:

Cheapest "G2" class systems (new, from dealers)

OS4
Cheapest Sam440ep kit at Vesalia (incl. OS4): 710 EUR
Cheapest Sam440flex kit at Vesalia (inlc. OS4): 690 EUR

MorphOS
Cheapest Efika system: Efika kit (MB + *the Official* case, incl. PicoPSU) at directron.com: $170 USD + XGI GFX ($40) + 80GB HDD ($50): 175 EUR
MorphOS 2.4 for this: 150 EUR
Sums up to a total of: 325 EUR

Seems like MorphOS wins the "G2" class price comparison.


Cheapest G4 class systems (second hand only)

OS4
OS4 for Pegasos 2 at Vesalia: 125 EUR
Second hand Pegasos 2 G4 system: 350-450 EUR
Grand total for OS4 and Pegasos2 system: 475-575 EUR

MorphOS
A second hand Mac Mini: 150-250 EUR
MorphOS 2.4 for this: 150 EUR
Sums up to a total of: 300-400 EUR

Seems like MorphOS wins the G4 class price comparison.


[ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2009/11/6 8:30 ]

@tmhg

Interesting price comparison, I'd not considered it in terms of processor class before - it certainly puts the MorphOS price into perspective.

I'd still like to see a comprehensive benchmark comparison between MOS2.4 on the Mac-mini and the Peg2.
Having just sold my Peg2 I'm no longer in a position to do it myself. The mac-mini certainly "feels" a lot faster, and things like disk access seems blazingly fast - it would be interesting to put some numbers to it.

Unfortunately, within a week of getting MOS2.4 on the Mac mini, my monitor died - I'm currently awaiting repair under warranty.

> i'm wondering before saving for a new copy of MorphOS (for my Mac Mini), whether I
> should get MorphOS for that, or AmigaOS 4.2 for my Pegasos 2. [...] So far I can only
> see Amiga OS 4.2 is cheaper

Oh really? So far, OS4.2 isn't even announced yet, while MorphOS for the Mac mini is there right now. So the choice between OS4.2 for Peg2 and MorphOS 2.4 for Mac mini should be easy.

> things like disk access seems blazingly fast

I see no technical reason why disk access should be faster on Mac mini than on Pegasos 2. Both have ATA100, and while Mac mini sports a rather slow notebook HDD (4200 to 5400 RPM) I assume that most Pegasos 2 user have usual desktop HDDs at 7200 RPM or more.

Well, I got confused a bit yesterday when I did a hdd benchmark. The hdd of the mini, being a 2.5" model at 5400 rpm yielded to 1.4 higher data transferrates than the 7200 rpm 3.5" hdd of my Peg. Then I saw that the hdd model listed by unit control is a Hitachi HTS54108. And that one is listed as a SATA drive. Generally I thought and think G4 minis have a PATA interface, but why does unit control report me the serial of a SATA drive and why is the hdd so fast?
If I ad a toolbox at hand now I would open up the case of the Mini and look at the connector...

Edit: The result of my preliminary test is written here (German):http://via.i-networx.de/bench.html

[ Edited by Zylesea on 2009/11/6 17:12 ]

> The hdd of the mini, being a 2.5" model at 5400 rpm yielded to 1.4 higher data
> transferrates than the 7200 rpm 3.5" hdd of my Peg.

Strange.

> the hdd model listed by unit control is a Hitachi HTS54108. And that one is
> listed as a SATA drive.

Where? According to Hitachi GST, there are two models of the HTS54108:

- HTS541080G9AT00, which is PATA
- HTS541080G9SA00, which is SATA

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/5k100/5k100.htm

> Generally I thought and think G4 minis have a PATA interface

That't correct.

> but why does unit control report me the serial of a SATA drive

I think it doesn't. You have the PATA model, I bet.

> and why is the hdd so fast?

Yes, that's the real question. Even if it was SATA (which it obviously isn't) it wouldn't be any faster than its PATA counterpart. SATA bus has more bandwidth than PATA bus, but that doesn't magically make one and the same HDD logic faster when combined with another connector and put on the corresponding bus.

> The result of my preliminary test is written here (German):
> http://via.i-networx.de/bench.html

32% higher performance on Mac mini, hmm.

So question to all:
Does anybody have a technically convincing explanation why HDD performance on Mac mini exceeds the one of Pegasos?

@Krashan

You among all here make a crucial notions, pal.

Quote:

Well screw the systems (with the respective respect ). Somebody do the software comparison!!!

AmigaOS4.1 v. MorphOS2.4 v. MacOS 10.4

or

AmigaOS4.1 v. MorphOS2.4 v. Ubuntu 9.10

I'm not being rude here. As a matter of fact that kind of comparison (three system) would be (1) sound and also (2) show that (I guess of course)
i) all three systems are comparable in daytime routines
ii) Amiga-like systems lack in personal productivity, but they're closer to Linux than Linux is to macOSX

Only such comparison with 0-10 score in two categories: fun and work would show anything, especially in between AmigaOS and MorphOS because the third system would give the proper context. I don't expect the 0 v 10 AOS v MOS difference in any field (who knows on the other hand...) but still, total score would tell you anything. in fact, what do I get out of the faster or better OS alone, while the proper assessment is at the apps level???

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That's sacred words you say. I will try to start my coding for MorphOS yet this weekend.

Cheers!

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Yes, on IRC I see this quite often. Should I dig my logs for examples?

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I have neither.

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Uhm, I don't think anyone can say this in absolute terms. However, I have read from users that own both machines that in some tasks (for instance 3D related) the Efika with MorphOS is indeed faster. As an example, I am told the GLExcess demo runs quite a lot faster on the Efika than on a 667MHz Sam. But it's not an HW comparison, and we all know that AmigaOS 4 is well behind in terms of performance, particularly in 3D.
Quote:
Well, for the scope of that thread the most interesting benchmark are totally MorphOS-unrelated. There are claims of AmigaOne being faster than a similarly specced PegasosII, at least under AmigaOS 4 (the few numbers I ever saw suggested the contrary...) and the Sam440 non falling much behind G4 equipped machines. Of course no numbers are ever provided... But there's really nothing we can do in that regard.
Mac mini benches would interest far more us, and I'm sure, as in the past, MorphOS users will not be shy and will give numbers - I will, as soon as I have some time

Kind regards,
Andrea

Well screw the systems (with the respective respect ). Somebody do the software comparison!!!

AmigaOS4.1 v. MorphOS2.4 v. MacOS 10.4

It is a repeating pattern. Everytime I point the fact that MorphOS (and its applications) have more features, are better integrated, follows Amiga Style Guide more and make better use of hardware resources, someone tries to dimnish my statements with comparing to some "mainstream" operating system.

The fact that MacOS has much more applications, does not change the fact, that MPlayer is still much faster under MorphOS. It also does not change Ubuntu responsivity slowness and general bloatness of Linux. It also does not change MorphOS vs AmigaOS 4 comparision in any tiny bit.

If you compare the height of a small house with the height of two-floor huose, and then you compare them both to the Eiffel tower, it does not change the fact that two-floor house is higher than the first one.

This is a thread for people who don't love MorphOS just hate Amiga OS4.

Well done guys, your dad is bigger than theirs.

Quote:

Well, I dont know that, for me atleast it's just a rumour. There's also rumours about the efika having faster disk access than the sam, despite the efika having a borken IDE controller and the sam having SATA controller. This is exactly why a benchmark comparison of the two would be interesting.

@kolla

You have got strange friends in Amiga land

@krashan

Quote:

There is good old saying on IRC from #AmigaFIN which goes along lines: "it is not worth effort to fight with amiga indians".

thanks... i have a bit of curiosity, but then i'd hate to be totally disappointed... maybe i will register my Mac Mini MorphOS instead... just the high price and I have this copper things floating around inside my mac mini which rattles - not sure what it is.

I have a friend with a SAM440ep 667MHz that will be coming to visit me in the next couple of months and I will ask him to help me do some benchmark testing of his SAM compared to my Efika compared to my G4 MacMini running several programs and/or tests that are the same on each of them. Don't have access to any Pegasos 2, or AmigaOne machines though.

It was a little useful to see the past tests of MorphOS2.3 vs AmigaOS4.1 on the Pegasos 2, but they did not seem to be very impartial, or professionally conducted, so it might be useful to have some more benchmarks of the newer MorphOS2.4 vs AmigaOS4.1.1 (when it is released for the Pegasos 2) done and have them released without any bias remarks for either system.

When ever biased remarks are added to any testing done, the tests are automatically looked upon suspiciously by the loosing side and the general public.

Testing is useful information, but it doesn't have to be used (specially in the release of the test results) as a way to disrespect one side or the other. Enough of that will happen on the forums after the results are released.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/11/7 21:25 ]

@ amigadave

Sounds good. Try to do as many as possible of those tests in the Obligement article!

Quote:

Yeah, I agree that 150 EUR is a lot of money. But seeing that you can actually get *two* complete and fully *registered* MacMini+MorphOS systems (not "G2", not G3, but G4) at the price of *one* Sam/OS4, surely puts some perspective on things. Everything is relative!

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I'll try to get that done and report the results here.

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So what? Many people here, like myself, tend to use MorphOS (or AmigaOS for some) as a main OS. If there is significant gap, I wish to learn it. If there is a difference between MorphOS and AmigaOS, I want to know it.

I said already - we know MorphOS or AmigaOS has some shortages, that's NOT the point of the comparison. Adding a mature system gives you the CONTEXT, the thing to be easily forgotten while using MorphOS or AmigaOS alone.


Quote:

Exactly - so as you can see, nobody gets hurt by e.g. introducing Linux.

Quote:

Please, don't be silly. That's not about MorphOS better than MacOSX or MorphOS better than Linux. It is to give the testing person the context he or she most likely would lack while concentrating on Amiga-like systems as base for OS tests design. You claim many times nothing bad would happen to MorphOS figures, also you try to fight the thesis in every second statement.

Please ask yourself this question - do you want to perfor a honest OS comparison or only a comparison biased from MorphOS user perspective?