I was only but shocked when I saw that there were being taken legal threats agaisnt the way Christian was running his site, but even more chocked when it was found to be by BBRV himself.

Christian added "This might entail drastic changes to the relative freedom of speech ANN has always allowed its visitors, or ANN might close down altogether."

I never expected such a move *from* BBRV agaisnt Christian, who could be next!? John Shephard.. Wayne Hunt?

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And can we somehow peek at new t-shirt 'prototypes' ?

Whether it has substance or not, it's always a political suicide having the media sources of your market being against you.

The situation must definitely be handled better, and resolved as soon as possible, preferably in a friendly manner (to the degree it's possible).

@Warface

Except: the damage was already done and there is no miracle making it go away :/

Genesi seems to be very good at burning bridges....

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Amen to that. I haven't visited amiga-news.de, ann.lu etc. anymore for quite a long time now, just for this very reason. I just found out there are better things to do and nicer places around.

Bump.

Man...what a day, wot an 'orrible day!

http://ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1081236244&category=motd&start=351&386#message382

not repeating it here.

To those calling for 'censorship'...I did that on another issue on here and was quickly convinced that was the wrong thing to do. Discuss this, discuss it to death!

Steve

well i'm no fan of ann.lu Its more amitards than i can handle in one place. But trying to censor people via law ranks pretty high on my list of scumbag things to do.

I'm not going within 20ft of a peg till i know the story on this one, nor will I be even mentioning the product to people till its resolved and clear as to whats going on. I'm not goign to support supressors of free speech.

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Thats a BIG ####ing mistake. Your screwing yourself out of customers. Doubly true when it turns out to be the truth. I know i sure as hell won't have one if its true. And i'll do everything in my power to ensure that no one else i know does.

I've refrained from comment due to the fact that I only know what's posted in the forums.

There are times when one cannot change something, no matter how bad you want to fix it. I'm afraid for me, this is one of those times. I can only gaze from the sidelines like everyone else.

i think nothing more should be said untill we know more facts......for example "I" will not post anymore about this until we know the fully story which will probably all come out when its an apropriate time.......so until then i say we all ist back and relax......i hope that this is the last post in the matter.....

It could be that there are legal reasons why bbrv *can't* discuss this matter on a public forum. Remember that forum posts already played a part in earlier court proceedings. On the other hand, now that Christian has revealed (sort of) this "threat," Genesi's taking a big PR hit. Personally, I think it'd be good if Genesi could issue a simple statement that, for legal reasons (if that's the case), they can't discuss the matter at this time. This would at least put forward a civil face when most people aware of the situation have concluded that Genesi is pure evil.

It's good that Genesi had already decided there are no more sales to be made in the "Amiga community." This is another sad affair that makes advocacy rather difficult.

-- gary_c

Well, my first reaction was "wow this is sad", but upon further
reflection, it's difficult to form a realistic opinion without
knowing "both sides"...then there's also the "do I really even
care" factor.

@Gary_C

>"...taking a big PR hit."


Not only PR. I myself know four people who decided not to get Pegasos afterall, ONLY because of this.

While we're talking about pretty small amounts of losses here, I think every single penny would be more than helpful for Genesi.

Bad move. Bad, bad move. Time to kick out one lawyer and get a 24/7 PR-assistant as replacement, maybe?

yea no ####.. i could do PR better than this.... IF only becuase i know how to piss people off. Its sorta like if you know how to fix something, you also know how to break it.

i hope they have something by tomorow, every reseller i've talked too has gotten questioned about this and giving a "i don't know answer" on such a topic just sends the customer packing.

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Which, as far as I can tell, is simply not true. There are *many* "Amigans" that still haven't bought a Peg (for various reasons, like the fact that they've been built in small amounts, and they've been almost impossible to get hold of in certain countries - mine should be arriving today or tomorrow), that won't like this kind of affair...
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I don't think blind advocacy is our duty. If we think there's something wrong, we should point it out. Judging this whole mess is quite difficult now, since we know little. What I can say, is that this mess is doing quite a lot of harm to Genesi - and, as a sideeffect, to the Pegasos and MOS.
These things need to be sorted out ASAP.

Kind regards,
Andrea

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Yea well.. bbrv don't seem to agree. Oh well, our loss not thiers.. wait a minute....

Abandoning the amiga comunity.. good idea.. really ####ing great idea infact, only thing to be had there is trouble, troubled users, bothersome users, and lame users. There aren't any developers worth having there still.

I'm sure i'm not the only one that will refuse to have a peg near them if this turns out to be the truth.. not unless the suit is droped and letter of apology sent. I still think ann.lu is a ####ty message board, and the moderaters are ####tards, but suing them is wrong. Now knifing their tires, i could go for that, maybe hire ninja's to slip opium into his coffe grounds, something, anything other than suing... hell i bet the ninjas are cheaper even.

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AFAIK no lawsuit is going on, yet. And hopefully never will.

The worst thing in my opinion, is that this touches everyone of us, not only Genesi/Kemp. It already has affected current userbase, future userbase, single individuals, and even MorphZone.
It caused loss of sales, resellers stepping back, hatred.. and it will go on to other forums, platforms and communities aswell, including Linux etc.

This waslike digging your own grave, really.

Guruman wrote:
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Right. I don't either. But smart advocacy can help build the platform. Things like this make it difficult, though. Unfortunately, these legal and staff problems don't stay private, but spill out into the public for all the potential buyers and developers to see. A small, proprietary platform is hard enough to "sell" in the best circumstances. I don't know why more care isn't taken to avoid these self-inflicted wounds.

-- gary_c

I think its very sad that this great former great comunity has always such bullshit running ... the Pegasos is a nice computer and has a great OS, but sorrily there are some people divided who should work together and not against. Christians reaction might be very angry but nevertheless in my opinion it was right...Quote:

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I don't even see how anyone could view Christians action as "very angry", I mean, look at the announcement. He announced that he was *giving in* to the threat and implementing changes to the site to appease those that are threatening him. I don't think many of you would even give in to a threat like that, much less do so in any sort of tactfull way. I don't think I would. How would Genesi react in a similar situation i wonder?

I find myself conflicted, because I want to see Genesi succeed, and I believe that they can, but I don't see anything constructive coming out of the agressive inflamitory, reactionary posture Genesi takes towards problems, it only makes them worse. Theo is a prime example. Of course the man is a hyperactive loose cannon, everyone knows that, but was it necesary to ask him to pay for the two boards before things were smoothed over? It just seems like pushing peoples buttons just to get the last word in, and is counterproductive to Genesi's goals, and works against what everyone else at Genesi is working so hard for.

I really hope this current situation works itself out, because everything Genesi is working towards deserves to succeed.