MorphZone

Saku 2017 MorphOS 3.10 preview

guruman

# 26
Moderator

Posts: 461 from 2003/7/21

All quite interesting, but what about Saku 2017 MorphOS 3.10 presentation?

Kind regards,
Andrea
»11.10.17 - 22:47

Jim

# 27
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> the support would be like for Cube, read it works but not marketed that way.

I see no problem listing the PowerMac11,2 as supported with a ****** comment saying that a supported graphics card must be installed.

I'd settle for qualified support.

As to Saku, I think we'll need to wait until demos start being presented for the public, not those focused on developers.
I'm sure there were things said at Saku that are not intended for general consumption.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»12.10.17 - 12:52

Andreas_Wolf

# 28
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> As to Saku, I think we'll need to wait until demos start being presented
> for the public, not those focused on developers.

I don't think the MorphOS 3.10 presentation at Saku was focused on developers. As to public or not, I'm not sure that the audience of the presentation had to sign an NDA or similar ;-)

> I'm sure there were things said at Saku that are not intended for general
> consumption.

You mean during the presentation?
»12.10.17 - 15:28

Jim

# 29
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

>> I'm sure there were things said at Saku that are not intended for general
>> consumption.

>You mean during the presentation?

No, I meant things said in confidence during the meeting.
Sometimes when you have something you're proud of it can be hard to contain it, so you hope can only count on that info remains confidential between you and those you choose to share it with.

I've learned from past experience that its best to wait for the developers to reveal what they will, when they will.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»12.10.17 - 17:12

Andreas_Wolf

# 30
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> its best to wait for the developers to reveal what they will, when they will.

This thread is about what was revealed during the MorphOS 3.10 presentation at Saku. It doesn‘t need a developer for this. Anyone who was there could share I guess.
»12.10.17 - 19:04

Jim

# 31
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

>This thread is about what was revealed during the MorphOS 3.10 presentation at Saku. It doesn‘t need a developer for this. Anyone who was there could share I guess.

Then I guess all we need is someone who was there that cares to share their experience.
So far it doesn't look like anyone feels so inclined.

Hopefully there will be further presentations, or a final release so we can all familiarize ourselves with the latest revision.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»12.10.17 - 19:38

acepeg

# 32
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 165 from 2004/11/18

Maybe it's nothing new from Saku

Next Month i will go to Alchimie, so i will make you a report...

On april, one dev said me that Mos 3.10 is probably the last main release for ppc, a bug fix will come after but the goal is to change, it's more exiting for devs to switch and to bypass all the limits of Abox. But he has not said me the ISA Morphos Ng will work on.

I have asked him if they continue to support Apple computers on the other ISA and the response was NO.

Two more weeks !

[ Edited by acepeg 12.10.2017 - 22:01 ]
»12.10.17 - 20:00

Andreas_Wolf

# 33
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Maybe it's nothing new from Saku

Nothing new in MorphOS 3.10? I hope not ;-)

> he has not said me the ISA Morphos Ng will work on. I have asked him if they
> continue to support Apple computers on the other ISA and the response was NO.

That‘s consistent with what Bigfoot said here on MorphZone as much as 2½ years ago about future AMD64 support.
»12.10.17 - 20:38

Jim

# 34
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Yes, Apple computers are something I would not want to support in the X64 fork either.
But they have a real boon to our current ISA.
And what hasn't been said, is how long the current ISA will be supported.

I intend to continue to use it, and I won't speak for the developers, but at least one HAS mentioned to me that some of the new work may very well be back ported.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»12.10.17 - 20:48

Andreas_Wolf

# 35
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>> one dev said me that Mos 3.10 is probably the last main release
>> for ppc, a bug fix will come after but the goal is to change

> what hasn't been said, is how long the current ISA will be supported.

The above reads like MorphOS 3.11.
»12.10.17 - 21:00

Jim

# 36
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>> one dev said me that Mos 3.10 is probably the last main release
>> for ppc, a bug fix will come after but the goal is to change

> what hasn't been said, is how long the current ISA will be supported.

The above reads like MorphOS 3.11.

Yes, I think that is likely to be the last significant supported release, at least until the shift (and quite possibly afterwards, at least officially).
From there out the new ISA will be the focus.
What I've heard is only speculative, as in "what was likely to occur eventually".

By then you are all likely to have completely shifted over.
Since the next system purchase I intend to make covers both MorphOS and OS4, I anticipate continuing to use it.

As Mark owns an X5000, and other developers may as well (as well as some SAM460 systems), what they'll do is anyone's guess.

But since I've always got room for more hardware, I'll keep at least two PPC systems after I put together a X64 system.

To think that we are limited by previous statements, instead of those statements just being a summary of intentions...that's silly.

[ Edited by Jim 12.10.2017 - 18:26 ]
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»12.10.17 - 22:21

takemehomegrandma

# 37
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>> one dev said me that Mos 3.10 is probably the last main release
>> for ppc, a bug fix will come after but the goal is to change

> what hasn't been said, is how long the current ISA will be supported.

The above reads like MorphOS 3.11.

IMHO, an ISA change and a feature leap so fundamental that it breaks backwards compatibility, definitely warrants a ”4.0” version number. It will essentially be something different anyway (a separate version branch would help highlighting that, and keep the old/new separated for less confusion), even if it will be released for current PPC systems as well. So a question of ”how long the current ISA will be supported” isn’t really the issue, since a 4.0 version for PPC wouldn’t be the same as a what a 3.12 version for PPC would have been anyway.

I suppose releasing a PPC version of 4.0 would be kind of trivial, probably mostly a matter of choosing that ISA as a target when compiling. Question is, why bother? What would be the point? And wouldn’t two ISA’s (or more, ARMv8 would perhaps make even better sense) mean a potentially troublesome split in focus and support for both OS developers and application developers?
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»12.10.17 - 22:51

takemehomegrandma

# 38
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

Jim wrote:

From there out ~~the new ISA will be the focus~~.

From there on, the new MorphOS 4 version will be the focus.

It’s the fundamental changes in the OS that matters. Who cares about ISA at that point?
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»12.10.17 - 23:16

Jim

# 39
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>> one dev said me that Mos 3.10 is probably the last main release
>> for ppc, a bug fix will come after but the goal is to change

> what hasn't been said, is how long the current ISA will be supported.

The above reads like MorphOS 3.11.

IMHO, an ISA change and a feature leap so fundamental that it breaks backwards compatibility, definitely warrants a ”4.0” version number. It will essentially be something different anyway (a separate version branch would help highlighting that, and keep the old/new separated for less confusion), even if it will be released for current PPC systems as well. So a question of ”how long the current ISA will be supported” isn’t really the issue, since a 4.0 version for PPC wouldn’t be the same as a what a 3.12 version for PPC would have been anyway.

I suppose releasing a PPC version of 4.0 would be kind of trivial, probably mostly a matter of choosing that ISA as a target when compiling. Question is, why bother? What would be the point? And wouldn’t two ISA’s (or more, ARMv8 would perhaps make even better sense) mean a potentially troublesome split in focus and support for both OS developers and application developers?

I don't know if we will see that level of back porting.
And I think you are right, the X64 fork deserves a 4.0 designation, if not a different name.

Also, I don't expect the two forks to have identical feature sets, or for that matter to see the original ISA keep up with the X64 fork.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»12.10.17 - 23:25

takemehomegrandma

# 40
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

But you do expect a fork?
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»13.10.17 - 11:24

Jim

# 41
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
But you do expect a fork?

I don't think they would be working this hard if that wasn't the intention.
Why would Mark cover all gpus from the R600s right up the those immediately before the GCN gpus if the intent wasn't to move forward?
Because right now only the SAM460 and the X5000 can benefit from that support.

I think they are still debating which specific platform to support initially (since they can't support all X64 systems). I'm hoping it will be a Ryzen cored APU. This would allow us to retain AMD graphics, while giving us a decent performing cpu.

But the answer to your question, hell yes I expect a fork.

PPCs have topped out, and short of a move to Power9, there is no where else to move up to.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»13.10.17 - 13:42

ausPPC

# 42
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6

From: Pending...

Alrighty... I think I can share this much without stepping on anyone's toes - I emailed an address I found on the Saku site and the person who gave that presentation replied. He's a beta tester of 3.10 and while he was prepared to give that public demonstration at the event, he's not as willing to comment here. The other hitch is that those who he gave the presentation to seem to prefer other forums in their own language. However, there's likely to be another presentation at the Geit@home event in November so maybe some interesting 3.10 news will filter to the rest of the MorphOS world after that.
PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
»16.10.17 - 21:31

Andreas_Wolf

# 43
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12150 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> 4.0 version for PPC wouldn’t be the same as a what a 3.12 version
> for PPC would have been anyway.

Mention of 3.12:

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=12179&start=25
»31.10.17 - 10:55