...or create a forum where stupid stuff not relating to MorphOS goes.. ie. political crap, stuff like abortion and stuff in story books like religion...then make it to where that forum's posts never pop up on the main page.

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Only after I started a gun control thread !!!

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Do that and I'll shoot you (after all, I do live in the US...just kidding).

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Well said.

Never thought I would discuss abortion on MZ

X86 to MOS anyone?

@ matt3,

While I can appreciate the sincere statement of your position, there are other important points your side will not address.
Again, who will watch all the pregnant women to assure this won't occur?
Do you criminalize their behavior if they seek an abortion?
Are YOU willing to take on the expenses of raising an unwanted child?
Is it fair to the child or the parents to bring to term a child with extremely severe birth defects (eugenics again?)?

And finally, whose right is it to make these decisions, yours?

Again, mods, please shut this discussion down.

@Jim

I respect your liberal point of view, but do you see other aspects than social and personal costs and benefits?

@Jim

There is never an honest discussion when talking to pro-abortion advocates. The first thing they bring up is rape and incest. Rape and incest combined account for less than 1% of all abortions. As was warned decades ago, abortion is now accepted as a form of birth control. Decades ago the pro-abortion argument was that it should be rare, now advocates don't even try to use that argument, it is simply a form of birth control.

Planned parenthood was founded by an open Eugenicist with ties to the KKK. To this day it carries out its Eugenics mission.

The Planned Parenthood Racism Project

The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party. That mindset is still there in the left, they just hide it and the mainstream media do coverup.

http://www.protectingblacklife.org/pp_targets/

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Abortion should not be a solution to planned parenthood. Nor a method for birth control.

And I would not mind providing care for unwanted child(ren).

Also I would not mind raising unwanted children.

I do not hate minority groups. I admire them.

>"The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party."

WOW! That has to be the craziest statement I've heard in awhile!
And from someone I know and have had past dealings with.

Yes, there IS a major downside to discussions outside the norm for our group (a really huge one).

@ analogkid - Thanks for only calling me a liberal. I can handle that. Having voted for Democratic political campaigners in the past (and, therefore, according to Red supporting an organization with a "terrorist arm") I'm not comfortable with the very weird bent this has taken (not to mention how we look to our European friends).
And yes, its a tragic situation AND an ugly procedure. But I also remember women hemorrhaging to death in our emergency rooms from botched back alley procedures before this became legal.
Laws aren't going to stop women from seeking this route.
And I side in favor of a woman's right to control her own body.

In the meanwhile, as if I needed another lesson in why Andre was right.

Please guys, close this damned thread down.

From now on I promise to stick to technology related topics.

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But JESUS *loves* guns, and the righteous ones rights to have them!

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"Guns and Pißwasser", that is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPuz1n2LFVs



Pi%C3%9Fwasser,_IV.PNG

OK takemehomegrandma,
THAT was funny, but this thread is getting demented.
I could have mentioned Ancient Aliens, the Kennedy Assassination, or any of a dozen other offbeat topics, but I had to mention this one.
Censorship is beginning to look good.

Might have to check out that Pisswasser tonight.

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http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYKKKKTerroristArmoftheDemocratParty

That isn't a damnation of everyone one who has ever voted democrat but rather historical fact that the mainstream media and pop culture whitewashes.

http://hnn.us/article/3554

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Yeah, MZ might want to keep to technology. People get pretty passionate about politics, myself included.

Red, you are rather glossing over Lyndon Johnson's Civil Rights Act AND the fact that the current Democratic President is black.

But, definitely, we want to stick to technology and avoid further exploration of "hot" topics.

My bad.

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Hi Jim,

Thanks, I appreciate yours also...

The answer to who will take the babies that aren't killed in the womb is all the nonprofits that have had adoption services for over 100 years. The same nonprofits that are closing these programs, not because of lack of funding but there are simply no children available for adoption. Abortion has taken away children from families that would love and raise them. There is zero expense to having a healthy child, the adoption programs of many nonprofits pay and help mothers to term.

For whose right is it to make these decision? Who would notice and enforce? It is the same people who stood up for african slaves and said that yep they are in fact human beings who deserve the right to live. We the people need to stand up for those who don't have the might to defend themselves.

As far as criminal behavior, if someone intentially directly or indirectly kills their 2 month old. The state will exercise it's right to prosecute that person. He is still a human. Like the argument why a slave wasn't a human, we look back and laugh at the absurdity of it. Same holds true here.

Am I willing to pick up the expense for unwanted children??? You and I already do. Both Federal and State fund sources take our taxes to give to nonprofits that provide services... I also personally donate to nonprofits that have adoption programs so I have been willingly...

What gives you the right to say that a 8 month year old in the womb isn't human and that it can be freely disposed of and that a 2 month old does?

The absurdity of a couple driving to the abortion mill to kill the child, gets hit by someone texting and they loose the baby. They sue and win for manslaughter. If it was a human being to claim a payout from the idiot texting, it was the same human being they were going to destroy...

As far as handicapped children, we can't value health human beings differently from those who are handicapped... If the handicap is to much for that parents there are plenty of nonprofit with programs take care of them.

Do you value a handicapped person differently from someone without handicaps?



[ Edited by matt3 23.08.2014 - 14:10 ]

>"Do you value a handicapped person differently from someone without handicaps?"

I wasn't referring to mere handicaps (as someone with a disability), but much more severe conditions.

And as to slaves, your position would enslave women.

I also never said I favored late term abortions (as in the 8 month example you gave). THAT is a always the divisive tactic mentioned by the right.

Frankly I think your side would grant personhood to an undifferentiated blastocyst.

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The position stated is the same on the books today for any baby that is born and doesn't enslave anyone. Parents are always responsible for their children, if they don't take care of them then society and the state steps in to protect the child.

@matt3

Now that is a well stated argument.
My argument would still be at what point is it a child?
The reason I brought up the blastocyst stage, is that an undifferentiated ball of cells is clearly not a child (merely a potential child).

Obviously, as further development occurs, at some point we have to grant that this IS a person.
I'd never deny that.

OK MODS, THIS ONE IS WORSE THAN THE UKRAINIAN THREAD. PLEASE ABORT IT OR IT WILL HAUNT US FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

Oh, and the answer to the topic is an emphatic hell no.

[ Edited by Jim 24.08.2014 - 05:57 ]

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That is not the pro-abortion stance. Just like a few decades ago the pro-abortion argument used to be that abortion should be "rare" but is now promoted as another form of birth control, the coming stance is that abortion should be expanded to include after-birth abortion.

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I never said I supported anyone's "stance" but my own Red.
Its obviously a horrific procedure, particularly when done at a late term.
Then again, women hemorrhaging to death is also fairly horrific.
I tend to favor protecting the women.

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Great we have a lot more in comment that we started .

As red mentioned many abortion folks want abortion at any point without exception, which seems almost alien in the thought process.

As our science advances, we can now save children who are born prematurely many months before term. Which helps more people understand that he or she is really a human being.

The problem with someone granting life status to a human life is that who has the right to do so? If someone says 3 months she is living and is viable outside the womb with our technology but yesterday, she can't live even with our help or isn't a human female. This position cannot be defended.

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If you agree that abortions should be limited, we have more common ground than you think. Most pro-abortion people I talk to don't believe in any limitations at all. I've even had interweb discussions with people who defend the concept of any and all abortions including post-birth abortions.

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Abortion doesn't help or protect anyone. Many who have had this procedure, regret it for the rest of their lives.

Many people believe that without abortion doctors would be killing the mothers to save the baby.

To illustrate:

If a car falls into the water with 2 people in it. We try to save both, but only save the one. Our intent was to save both, but couldn't.

With abortion we would pull one out of the water and purposely drown the other.