Quote:

Identifying yourself with 'a side' doesn't help to maintain a dispassionate viewpoint. If you claim that US citizens, and by extension private industry, should be considered seperate from the actions of their government and military, why so quick to jump behind the flag?

(Sorry, that phrase sounds more harsh than its intended to)

Was Grenada so long ago? Mind you the US didn't even bother asking the population what their views were there, so probably not a good analogy.

Re: GDP etc

Germany didn't just 'become' the economic powerhouse of Europe due to the US's gentle tutelage, its own economic might through the 20th century was impressive enough before partition and Allied governence.

Whilst the US's economic, manufacturing, and military assistance was most welcome, and undoubtedly tipped the balance in WW2, your education system really should tone down the 'US miltary badasses singlehandedly saving the world out of the goodness of their hearts' jingoism: one could point out that the US's economic might is largely on the back of an economic empire kickstarted by an abundant find of natural resources (Texas oil) and the pick of the spoils of a world-wide war (in no small part down to horse-trading over economic support for the western allies, and the price of their entering the war in the first place), and largely composed of trade agreements set up with corrupt/puppet governments to asset-strip nations of their wealth/natural resources/nationalised industries, backed up by elements such as the CIA/NSA, and where blunt force threats are required, the plain old military. .

Just like every other imperial force throughout the last few thousand years in fact.

Ain't politics fun?

[ Edited by boot_wb 22.03.2014 - 01:04 ]

All fair points.

Don't mistake my opinions as absolutes, and don't ever infer that my education has anything to do with my opinion.
I can think for myself.
Obviously access to vast resources is damned useful in enabling success.
But we have no more of that then the Russians, so I put this idea out for discussion, maybe our success when compared to the Russians is due to increased opportunity.

I'm not a Texan. I live in a small conservative State that is the headquarters for an obscene number of corporations (living near a now defunct chemical plant that made the most Dioxin laced Agent Orange used in the Vietnam War).

I am wholly aware of my country's hubris, miss steps, and skullduggery.
And still, the majority of you are better off for us having been there.

"Sides"? Yes that's unfortunate. Russia could have chosen to join the majority of the rest of the world, but instead has decided to continue the same menacing behavior it exhibited since WWII.
So, they become "them".

Far too many of you look at the US as some kind of alien entity.
Where the fuck do you think we came from?
We ARE you.
I'm Irish, my niece goes to an Italian Catholic school, I go each year to the local Octoberfest celebration, and I can't enumerate the vast number of different ethnicities within just one block of my home.
We came here from all of your countries to try to do better.

And, yeah, we've got Russians too.

Unlike so many other places, we try not to menace each other over our differences, but gain from the addition of all these rich cultures.

Good luck with this cartoonish image you have of our relationship.
Our sense of national pride is not based on ethnicity, but shared beliefs.

We are not some weird counterbalance to Russia.
Unlike Europe, the successes or failures of Russia affect us very little.
You're the people directly threatened.

"Just like every other imperial force throughout the last few thousand years in fact." Apt statement, we all still live in the shadow of Rome.

Politics fun? No, she is a whore.


[ Edited by Jim 22.03.2014 - 01:01 ]

(^ slightly softened my previous post. )

That's not to paint an entirely black picture of the US, but reality deserves examining from multiple perspectives.

When looking at the relationships between governments of two different cultures (US, Russia), and their respective relationships towards a semi-autonomour region of a third party with -again- its own culture, and strong historical & cultural links with Russia... I can't take sides since I can't realistically comprehend what is 'best for Ukraine', let alone Crimea. Beyond the press of the last couple of weeks, I have no insight into the politics at all.

Would you really describe 'Western' (politically/economically) nations as the majority of the world?

Quote:

No, I was kind of hoping we were all getting over these issues.

In recent years, I've come to really enjoy what I can each country's people had to offer, including the Russians.

I'll be frigged if I know what's best for the Ukraine, but I'd prefer to see Ukrainians decide that.

I think I went over the edge in this discussion when I started to think about Poland.

Another thing we may be indoctrinated in over here is an overt concern for the well being of our friends.

I can't help but think we failed you, especially the Poles and the Germans.
We held onto isolation too long and ignored all the news from Europe until things were far out of hand.

These days, we've spent our good will reserve, and left our allies distrustful.
That can be painful since as I've said, your countries were our origin.

Its frustrating watching all the bs old melodramas playing out again.
Are we doomed to keep repeating our mistakes or CAN we learn?