>>>>>>>> Hombre made it to prototype stage?

>>>>>>> Yes of course.

>>>>>> Any references to back this up?

>>>>> Use google.

>>>> I take this as a 'no'. Using Google I've found no indication of an actual working
>>>> Hombre prototype. It was all 'on paper', or maybe even simulation.

>>> 7100 100 Mhz PA-RISC which Commodore use in prototypes

>> You're still failing to back this up.

> 7100 are still available. Buy and do some test.

Where can I buy such Hombre-based Commodore prototype?

Quote:

Working simulation, and something on pci.

Use google.

Quote:

For cpu speed test You dont't need Commodore prototype.

Good old HP PA-RISC 7100 was not made exclusively for Commdore but for HP servers and workstations.

There are many on Ebay.




[ Edited by ppcamiga1 14.11.2016 - 15:55 ]

>>>> I take this as a 'no'. Using Google I've found no indication of an actual working
>>>> Hombre prototype. It was all 'on paper', or maybe even simulation.

> Working simulation

That's not a prototype.

> and something on pci. Use google.

I take this as a 'no'. Using Google I've found no indication of an actual working Hombre prototype, PCI-based or other.

>>>>>>>>>> Hombre made it to prototype stage?

>>>>>>>>> Yes of course.

>>>>>>>> Any references to back this up?

>>>>>>> Use google.

>>>>>> I take this as a 'no'. Using Google I've found no indication of an actual working
>>>>>> Hombre prototype. It was all 'on paper', or maybe even simulation.

>>>>> 7100 100 Mhz PA-RISC which Commodore use in prototypes

>>>> You're still failing to back this up.

>>> 7100 are still available. Buy and do some test.

>> Where can I buy such Hombre-based Commodore prototype?

> For cpu speed test You don't need Commodore prototype.

I didn't ask for any speed test but merely for proof of your claim that such Hombre-based Commodore prototype existed. You're still failing to provide any evidence.

Quote:

www.amigahistory.co.uk:

http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/hombre.html

> http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/hombre.html

Thanks.

"These chips and some other circuitry would be part of a PCI card."

Does this sentence mean such PCI card existed? (The meaning of "would" in a specific context is not always easy to get for a non-native speaker.)

Quote:

No:

http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/haynie3drisc.html

Seems to have been Daves job to design the PCI card.

>> "These chips and some other circuitry would be part of a PCI card."
>> Does this sentence mean such PCI card existed?

> No: http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/haynie3drisc.html

Thanks. So far I've not come across an unambigous statement that Commodore had a hardware-based, working Hombre prototype. Existing and functional Hombre developments may have very well been purely simulation-based.

Or there was something beyond simulation.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PGENoL4ma6kJ:www.ebay.it/itm/Commodore-Futures-Memo-HaynieMovingSale-055-/131445199320+&cd=1&hl=pl&ct=clnk&gl=pl&client=firefox-b

> Or there was something beyond simulation. [...]

Thanks.

"When I knew Hombre better, in 1993-1994, it was two chips, and using the PCI bus and a PC-industry GPIO for all of the basic I/O stuff. "

According to this statement, there may have been a Hombre prototype on a PCI card. I wonder if such card still exists or if there are pictures of such card at least.


Edit:

According to Dr. Hepler:

Supposed date of completion as of September 1993:
"The time frame for this chip set is CY 2H 1994."
(Hombre_part_3.pdf, page 3)

"Current status" in October 1993:
"Block diagrams of all chips have been generated. Interfaces to memory and between chips have been defined. Schematics of the CPU chip and Video chip have been started and various blocks have been simulated."
(Hombre_part_1.pdf, page 19)

Supposed date of completion as of April 1994:
"Late 1994 "First Silicon" Availability for 1995 Production"
(Hombre_Presentation_part_1.pdf, page 3)

"Status" in April 1994:
"- Schematics for many major blocks have been captured
- M language, synthesizable, behavioral models have been written for much of the functionality of the chip set.
- Some simulation has been started, much remains to be done."
(Hombre_Presentation_part_2.pdf, page 30)

So I think it can be safely concluded that there was never any Hombre prototype in hardware.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 21.07.2017 - 08:26 ]

"When I knew Hombre better, in 1993-1994, it was two chips, and using the PCI bus and a PC-industry GPIO for all of the basic I/O stuff. "

"Some simulation has been started, much remains to be done."

It depends what simulation means.

So I think it can be safely concluded that there was unfinished Hombre prototype in hardware.

>> "- Schematics for many major blocks have been captured"
>> "- M language, synthesizable, behavioral models have been written
>> for much of the functionality of the chip set."
>> "- Some simulation has been started, much remains to be done."
>> [...]
>> So I think it can be safely concluded that there was never any Hombre prototype
>> in hardware.

> It depends what simulation means.

Just use Google:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22m+language%22+simulation+%22mentor%22

> So I think it can be safely concluded that there was unfinished Hombre prototype
> in hardware.

I for one tend to believe Dr. Hepler when he says there was no more than incomplete simulation, which means no actual hardware.

>I for one tend to believe Dr. Hepler when he says there was no more than incomplete simulation, which means no actual hardware.

+1

Make that 'I for two'. The fact that it was being simulated, and even then not completely, makes it highly unlikely that there was actual hardware.

But You dont know it.

In this case I rather believe DH that:

"When I knew Hombre better, in 1993-1994, it was two chips, and using the PCI bus and a PC-industry GPIO for all of the basic I/O stuff. "

> In this case I rather believe DH

AFAIK, Dave Haynie wasn't directly involved in Hombre development. So even if there were conflicting statements about Hombre between Dr. Hepler and Haynie, I'd always believe the main developer over any bystander.

> that: "When I knew Hombre better, in 1993-1994, it was two chips, and
> using the PCI bus and a PC-industry GPIO for all of the basic I/O stuff. "

There doesn't necessarily have to be real hardware for this statement to be true. You can very well implement chips, PCI and GPIO (and anything else, really) purely in schematics, software models and simulation, which is what Dr. Hepler managed to achieve according to his own documents he last updated two weeks before Commodore's bankruptcy.

Quote:

I take everything Dave says with a grain of salt myself.
He has proven he's not beyond speculating or making unfounded statements.
And frankly, he owes Ralph Schmidt an apology for one of his hearsay statements.

Quote:

Some people believe what they want to believe, no matter what evidence is available contrary to their beliefs. Many former Amiga engineers seem to have issues about what Dave Haynie has done and stated over the years since Commodore went bankrupt. Like Andreas, I believe the documents and statements of Dr Helper, more than anything that Dave Haynie might have said (and I agree that DH owes Ralph Schmidt an apology.

Yes I know, it is big problem for some people, to accept fact that Commodore works on something faster than vampire.

> it is big problem for some people, to accept fact that Commodore works
> on something faster than vampire.

The final state of Hombre development doesn't have anything to do with Vampire. It's just your weird fixation on Vampire that makes you think otherwise.

Some people dont accept bitter truth

> Some people dont accept bitter truth

Indeed, some people are hesitant to accept the bitter truth that there was no prototype Hombre hardware, even after reading the words of the developer himself.

Quote:

+1!

Hombre, if completed, would have sent the Amiga in a new direction entirely.
I'm surprised today's purists are so fixated on it.
And this weird friction on the part of some over the Vampire vs. PPC based hardware baffles me.
I don't understand why we can't just let the legacy community have their fun.
Its not a threat (at least from a competitive stance) to our hardware, and they are just trying to push the envelope a little harder.
We ought to be happy for them, that they're getting this project to the people, not acting like its some over blown contest.

Quote:

and some live in their own world

Quote:

+1

the markets and products are very different even though of course many NG users also might be interested in new classic hardware so basically it extends the market

Olaf Schickelgruber aka Schönweiss is well known powerpc hater.
Yes We know it, vampire is last hope to be classic wunderwaffe.
But the truth is, vampire is underpowered, overpriced crap.

Quote:

As a unsatisfied, un realized natami customer, I dont agree.
Where is my wonderfull natami, faster than uae on fast pc from 2008?
Where is my wonderfull natami, with graphics as fast as PS2?