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I don't believe that would bring much new users if any. Very rare are buying books nowadays... and I can't imagine someone would buy it beforehand to become new user for some OS later :)

Big problem with printed books is also that they get obsoleted quite soon. New features wll come and old behaviour is changed. It isn't like in old times when OS was released and it stayed like that for a long time.

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Well that's one good thing about printing on demand. If no one buys it there's no loss of money (unless one counts time spent perparing the document as money) and if someone does buy a copy that's a few extra Euros in the coffers for the dev team. :)

My missus wrote a book on a highly speciialised subject matter and self published it on Kindle and Lulu. Keeps her with a nice trickle of income all year round.

It's the same thing with books as with magazines. It's not mainly because you need the information (we got the internetz!) but rather that it's nice having those for our (or others) niched OS.

Maybe we wont get new users, but it's not all that's important in my view. But IMO it's very good to point to a new user and say: "Buy this and you will get the hang of it in no time!" And I also think that even though MOS is changing, most parts stay the same.
And every cent we make would go back to the MOS community as bounties or other things.

This is our little project. We still hope it will materialise in the not too distant future. Even if people might think it's not really useful we think that just having a printed manual is actually worth something in itself.

I've said it before on a few occasions - a manual is justified being requested, and is definitely needed.

I'd like to se some FULL documentation for MorphOS, that can be downloaded, with guidance images on how things should look on screen as they are being done, but printable by the user, so in the form of a PDF would be the best option, as far as I see it. Then you could print whatever part of the complete documentation you might want reference material on, to explain something you need the answer to, which would be why you need the manual in the first place.

There is no point in documentation being sent off to another internet printing/document service, for them to want a margin of profit for something that should be available to users who have already invested in the OS/Registation.

Availability from the Morph OS Library is the way I'd like to see it arranged.

With regard to the MorphOS CD README file. it should be supplied on the CD as a .'txt' suffixed file as that is the across platform way of distinguishing a plain ASCII file, and would be readily viewable on either MorphOS, Amiga, Windows, Mac, Linux, or any other platform I can think of that might want to view it.

> the MorphOS CD README file [...] should be supplied on the CD as a .'txt' suffixed
> file as that is the across platform way of distinguishing a plain ASCII file, and would
> be readily viewable on either MorphOS, Amiga, Windows, Mac, Linux, or any other
> platform I can think of that might want to view it.

Even then there would still be the line break problem as mentioned by itix and me. See there for explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline#Representations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline#Common_problems

Thus, HTML is the way to go.

SYS:Docs has quite a few useful documents inside it, as does SYS:Development/Docs if one installs the SDK.

Perhaps future MorphOS ISO's could come with the SDK already installed and maybe also contain Krashan's excellent/ MorphOS Programmers Handbook.

Even copies of the articles in the Morphzone Library could be included on the ISO too?

There are also some files in HELP:<language> that people may not automatically think to look for.

Maybe permission could be obtained to include the Amiga C Manual from Aminet, though parts of it are quite dated and not relevant to MorphOS.

What other specific types of Documentation do people want?

I might be tempted to write a couple depending on what it wanted though my MorphOS specific knowledge is far less than most people who post here.

Andreas_Wolf,
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I see the word 'additionally' on that comment, but now ...

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So are you now saying you want to drop the idea of a '.txt' file and only have HTML or are you still of the opinion that there is a justification for a '.txt' file as well?

I personally don't see the need for a HTML file, as that is often more work than is necessary for what is the message that is trying to be passed.

After all that kind of setting out text usually intended for incorporating images and links, if they were also to be included then I'd agree.

Usually a readme, is a simple last-minute document that is thought necessary to mention, so writing out a HTML document isn't what someone wants to have to do, though writing such documents thesedays are much more simple than they used to be, but still as far as has been explained here, unnecessary.

I send many '.txt' files off for magazine articles, and never have them sent back for end of line problems.

I either write my articles in Notepad (Amiga) or in Notepad++ (Windows) and they both read back the same if they are just ASCII files, correct line feeds/EOL markers.

Frankly I don't know what all the fuss is about HTML if we are just talking about a readme file in plain ASCII.

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Try opening MorphOS.readme from the 3.2 CD with Windows Notepad and you'll see the problem.

>> Even then there would still be the line break problem as mentioned by itix and me.
>> See there for explanation: [...] Thus, HTML is the way to go.

> So are you now saying you want to drop the idea of a '.txt' file and only have HTML
> or are you still of the opinion that there is a justification for a '.txt' file as well?

The latter. I made my comment that HTML was the way to go in context of what it was a reply to, which included the mention of Windows.

> a HTML file [...] is often more work than is necessary for what is the message that is
> trying to be passed. [...] writing out a HTML document isn't what someone wants to
> have to do, though writing such documents thesedays are much more simple than
> they used to be

There are easy ways to automate the creation of an HTML file from an ASCII file with defined structure. Such automation is nothing most of the MorphOS Team members couldn't program in a few minutes I'm sure.

> After all that kind of setting out text usually intended for incorporating images and links,
> if they were also to be included then I'd agree.

Using HTML instead of ASCII circumvents the line break incompatibility that exists between different operating systems (mostly Windows vs. the rest). All major operating systems come with a web browser, so there is no need to perform any additional action to view an HTML file, which is in line with what sacc-user wants.

> I send many '.txt' files off for magazine articles, and never have them sent back for
> end of line problems.

So either the ASCII files are read on an OS with compatible line break encoding (essentially anything but Windows) or the addressee has put in place some means to convert the line break encoding to the desired one (remember CrossDOS?), or the further processing of the file by the CMS doesn't care for the line break encoding.
Btw, besides the line break encoding problem, there's also the codepage problem with ASCII files. The addressee may encounter those if you send off ASCII files with special characters like the EUR symbol. You can't define the codepage in a plain ASCII file, but you can in HTML.

> I either write my articles in Notepad (Amiga) or in Notepad++ (Windows) and they
> both read back the same if they are just ASCII files, correct line feeds/EOL markers.

AmigaOS/MorphOS and Windows use different EOL markers. This is a fact. I guess you have set up Notepad++ to put and read non-Windows EOL markers. If not, I don't know why you aren't encountering the problem. I certainly am.

> Frankly I don't know what all the fuss is about HTML

It's about circumventing the line break incompatibility with different operating systems (and the recognition problem with ASCII files suffixed ".readme" as reported by sacc-user in this thread).

Re: Line breaks

Several ways to skin a cat:

- One could either have a batch file modifying the registry key to set notepad to use word-wrap by default (default Windows installation has word-wrap turned off) - hacky
- Set the first line of the readme to "If you are reading this in windows, ensure format>word-wrap is set to on for correct formatting."
- Set up a small batch file (eg called morphos.readme.windows.bat) to open the morphos-readme which opens the document in wordpad (which iirc has word-wrap on by default)
- Add a small routine into the MorphOS RC preparation process which ensures an additional morphos.readme.txt is created with CRs as well as LFs.

It really is no biggie.

Imo it would be more robust, expandable and managable (even between versions) to create a a simple static page on the ISO linking to various online resources (eg installation instructions, hardware compatibility list, MorphOS library, help forums/IRC channels, mailing lists, etc).
This would be accessible to any OS with openurl or similar implementation as long as they are online.

[ Edited by boot_wb 17.08.2013 - 11:11 ]

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Replies like this one will most often be taken as offensive and should be avoided.

sacc-user is trying to point out things that could be improved for new users of MorphOS, so please take his statements as constructive criticism, and nothing more.

Saying that if he can't open a txt file MorphOS is not for him is going to anger just about anyone.

@sacc-user,

These kinds of suggestions, or reports of trouble starting out with MorphOS would be better sent directly to the MorphOS Dev. Team and not discussed here with members of a forum who have no power to make any changes to the MorphOS ISO image (though 1 or 2 of the Dev. Team members may have commented in this thread).

I am sorry for any trouble you may have had getting started with MorphOS, and feel partially responsible for not making things more clear for you in the beginning.

amigadave,

It is ok. I think many here are just surprised and made an assumption everyone visit Amiga sites regularly.

Intuition,
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MorphOS is intended for MorphOS - not Windows - if you open up a readme file on an alien OS then what should you expect?

Did you try opening the readme in Notepad++ (Open Source/free text/programming editor). I bet it reads OK in that.

It opens up OK in Multiview, and Scribble, so did you try OpenOffice or MSWord to access the readme - if Windows doesn't kick up a fuss about the extension having a 7 character extension (.readme) and see how that was displayed?

Getting back to my initial point though - why open a readme file on a system that it was not intended for?

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Erm, have you not been reading this thread?

Andreas_Wolf,
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I agree ... BUT ... we are talking about a last minute piece of text - not fancy character codes, but even the Euro can be written "Euro" and everyone should know what it means. After all this text is intended for a MorphOS user to read ..... on a MorphOS system - so why should we care what it reads like on Windows !!

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We have discussed this several times already and the nightly ISO builder is even generally ready to do this, but then a lot of people have complained they think the ISO gets too large if the SDK gets included in it. Can't please everyone...

As for the .txt/.readme problem on Windows - please don't blame us for poor choices made by Microsoft. Those files work just fine on any linux distro or OSX.

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We have our hands full just writing some minimal developer documentation for the SDK releases - which I at least consider more important than userland documentation. Sorry but since this is our spare time project, it's a bit hard to find time for end-user docs. There's always something a lot more pressing on the TODO list. Also mind that there isn't a single native English speaker in the MorphOS Team anymore, so it really has to be done by willing user(s) - with our help obviously. We have asked several users for help writing the docs, but they have always bolted.

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That suggestion sounds very reasonable. A html anchor file with some links and one or two explaining senteces to get started from. E.g. "Stuck in trouble or just like to talk a bit ? Vist morph.zone or #morphos at freenode.org" That is really simple and should get everyone to the right place.

If you want to schmooze Windows users particularly, put an autorun.inf file to the iso that lauches a little information file what this cd is actually about.

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Perhaps using LZMA compression for anything in the image that is compressed with LHA would pacify those that complain about the ISO size?

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Exactly. :)

> we are talking about a last minute piece of text - not fancy character codes

This was just to illustrate the general interoperability problems that may occur with ASCII files. I'm well aware that the MorphOS.readme file doesn't use any special characters.

> this text is intended for a MorphOS user to read ..... on a MorphOS system - so
> why should we care what it reads like on Windows !!

You obviously didn't bother to follow this thread, which is unfortunate. If you go back a little, you'll see that the topic of ASCII file interoperability arose when sacc-user told about how he was not able to even boot MorphOS on his Mac because he had an incompatible graphics card in it. How should he have read the MorphOS.readme containing the information about compatible graphics cards on MorphOS then? That's why he said the MorphOS.readme (or another file with the same content) should be easily accessible on Windows too (obviously assuming that's what most people have running on at least one computer at home) without making any assumption about additionally installed software, so just using what Windows comes with as default.
I hope this answers your question.

> MorphOS is intended for MorphOS - not Windows - if you open up a readme file
> on an alien OS then what should you expect?

I think it makes sense that a readme file containing information on what hardware is required to even boot the OS is also accessible from alien OS.

> Did you try opening the readme in Notepad++ (Open Source/free text/programming
> editor). I bet it reads OK in that.

This may be but is making an assumption about additionally installed software. What we've been talking about, based on what sacc-user shared right in this thread (bothered to read this yet?), is making the information contained in the readme file accessible on alien OS *without* assuming anything about additional software.

> if Windows doesn't kick up a fuss about the extension having a 7 character
> extension (.readme)

The suffix issue has already been discussed in this thread. Windows won't automatically recognize a .readme file. The file is listed but the attempt to open it will require you to select a program to open it with. This has been deemed too big a hurdle by sacc-user.

> why open a readme file on a system that it was not intended for?

You should know the answer to that question by now.

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I've asked people what userland docs they'd like and offered to possibly write one but no one has given me an answer yet.

I'm also an Englishman so I spell words the correct way not the American way. ;)

OT: Did you recieve the email I sent you a few days ago regarding an MCC Serial Number?

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I'd say some generic "First Steps" document would be nice, at least for new users. Something that'd explain file handling as compared to Windows/*nix, a little bit of Ambient magic, getting online, registering, downloading OWB fonts and some shell basics perhaps...

As for the MCC - check your email.

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Received, thank you very much. :)

Regarding the docs I'll see what I can come up with. I've hit a stumbling block with some simple code recently and haven't got the energy to fix it right now so writing a small howto might be a nice diversion for a while.

Andreas_Wolf,
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I do, check the website for the OS, and check what readme information is on the site as to hardware requirements then install it on suitable hardware, and then read the OS readme file that comes with the OS on the CD.

Why would you download an installation CD ISO/image for an operating system without knowing if you have the correct hardware to install it ?

The readme should be titled "MorphOS3-CD-readme.txt" and that way it is viewable on any system as they all handle ASCII, the formatting of the text has got to be of little concern, as long as someone can read it, they can work out the formatting if that's a problem for them at a later stage, but it reads OK for the system(s) it can be useful for, and that should be the main priority, in my opinion.

Besides which, we are spending too much time discussing this point, and I am not 'dipping my toes in the water' on this subject any further - you can all decide what you consider is best, but I've given my opinion, and that's all I can do.

I just hope you all make the most logical, sensible choice for all concerned, and good luck with your decision.