Hello,

i just tested a Power Mac G4 against Power Mac G5 and in result
the Power Mac G4 is faster.

Just tested Quake3 first Arena both with same detail setup.
The G4 renders 24 fps and the G5 just did 20 fps.

The G4 system: Power Mac 3,6@1,42 GHz, Radeon 9000 RV 250 64 MB
The G5 system: Power Mac 7,8@2,0 GHZ, Radeon 9600X RV 360 128 MB

Well the cpu as well as the gfx card should be much faster than the G4 system.
But it isn't?!

What's going on?

That's odd. Maybe it is highly optimized for Altivec on the G4? I'd still think the G5 would be faster considering how much more raw horsepower it has. Are all settings right on the G5?

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For a game like Quake 3, what really matters is the memory bandwidth of the graphics card. It's not clear which graphics cards you have exactly, but Radeon 9000 models and Radeon 9600 models have roughly the same amount of memory bandwidth, and the fastest Radeon 9000 model has 2.75 times as much memory bandwidth as the slowest 9600 model.

Hello bigfoot,

here are the two gfx cards:

G4: g4gfxcard.png

G5: g5gfxcard.png


[ Edited by eliot 20.09.2013 - 19:26 ]

That is interesting.
The 9600 has a faster GPU clock, but the screens don't give us an idea of how wide the memory path is so memory bandwidth is still an unknown.

OK, looks like those are indeed a Radeon 9000 and a Radeon 9600 XT. The 9600 XT does have marginally more memory bandwidth than the Radeon 9000, 1.2 times as much in fact, so while there's a chance that the 9600 XT will be faster than the 9000 with a future MorphOS update, it will probably not be that much faster.

Those 9600 cards in the G5 systems were crap. When I ran my Powermac G5 it was one of the first things I switched out. I really was a step back for ATI on that model. Apple for a time was even thinking of dropping them for Nvidea if I recall when they were new.

I have one of those. What should I switch to? Preferbly not the 9800 series because those are really expensive.

9800s are not that expensive if you modify an PC version.
Genuine Apple cards do command more, but can be had in the US for as low as $50.
I can start looking for one of those if you like.

I am no longer modifying PC cards for others as I have a backlog of those to finish for friends.

[ Edited by Jim 20.09.2013 - 21:45 ]

I remember reading a lot of Mac user complaints about the G5 PowerMac models when they first came out, and how the last models of the G4 PowerMac were out performing the early G5 PowerMac's, until more optimization of perhaps MacOSX and certain software titles was completed, to better utilize the G5 architecture. That, plus the poor performance of some of the 9600 video card models, which Bigfoot has confirmed, that some models were slower than the top of the line earlier 9000 series cards.

It does not surprise me that some software runs slower on the G5, when combined with specific models of the 9600 video cards.

The TV & Movie production special effects company I purchased seven G4 PowerMac computers from on eBay, had continued using many dual 1.25GHz G4 PowerMacs to run MacOS9.2.2 & AVID software until just a few years ago, when they switched to using Intel powered systems and some other software solution. IIRC, the last show that the old G4 PowerMacs were used to produce graphics & effects for was the Grammy Awards show aired in 2010. I was surprised that such old systems had continued to be used that long, when newer faster systems were available, long before that date.

@Jim

If you can find something really good, geniune mac radeon card I would be more than happy

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I'll keep an eye out for one.
Occasionally they can be had at a reasonable price.

I paid less than $50 for the last Apple 9800XT I bought, but I shipped that to Frank a few weeks ago so that he could make sure that the glitches with the G5 were not related to flashed 9800s.

BTW - Everyone, has Radeon 9800 stability in the G5 improved with version 3.3?

I had slowdown since MorphOS 3.0 with PowerMac G4 andPC flashed Radeon 9500 / 9700 / 9800 (full 128k rom or reduced 64k rom)
All works well now with MorphOS 3.3 even with reduced rom.

@Jim

Thanks man! Let me know if there's anything you need from here

Just make sure it's an original mac one (I don't trust flashed cards). If the price is good then just buy it and I'll pay you before you ship it. Sounds good?

[ Edited by Yasu 21.09.2013 - 14:32 ]

Yep, no problem.
It is a pity we did not discuss this a day or two ago.
An Apple 9800XT just sold two days ago for $41.

@Jim

Darn But I'm in no hurry. The 9600 XT may not be too hot but it works.

Oh, the 256 MEG version is a must of course!

I found that my g4 powerbook can blow away the G5 when playing RTCW.
I turn all of the graphics settings to max and the G4 is the clear winner with almost double the frames per second. The 9600 is not a nice card.


I have not gone to the 9800 due to everyone complaining that their G5 with a 9800 won't even boot on 3.2 mos.

> I have not gone to the 9800 due to everyone complaining that their G5 with a 9800
> won't even boot on 3.2 mos.

This should be cured since MorphOS 3.3:

"- Fixed a problem with AGP initialisation that could lead to severe graphics performance problems.
- Radeon 9800 chips on G5 machines now use MMIO based data transfers."
http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.3

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Hi, can you please tell me which way did you test it, with what command? I will check that out on my hw.

I can't even get Quake 3 to run without crashing on my G5.

G5 2.0Ghz w/ Radeon 9650

Loads, intro runs and menus work. Games starts but shortly later game freezes with sound cycling. MorphOS itself doesn't crash, just the game.

Quote:

A log file of such a situation would be appreciated. Start the game, crash it, start a shell, type getramdebuglog, use the bug report feature in Ambient and paste the file named morphos.log which ramdebuglog created into the bug report together with a short description of the problem.

@bigfoot
Will do today. Thanks!

:) Quake III on G5, lets do this! :)

Well, since today my 9800XT 256M is arrived I did some tests and here they are!

PowerMac G4 ATI Radeon 9250 128M:
1260 frames 18.7 sec. 67.3 fps

PowerMAc G5 ATI Radeon 9650SE 256M:
1260 frames 30.9 sec. 40.7 fps

PowerMac G5 ATI Radeon 9800XT 256M:
1260 frames 50.5 sec. 24.9 fps

All three tests did with the same settings:

PixelFormat: Color(32 bits) Z (16 bits) Stencil (0 bits)
Mode: 6 1024x768 Fullscreen Hz:N/A
Rendering Primitives: Single Gl Drawer Elements
Texture Mode: GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_NEAREST
Texture BIts: 32

used the same commands for all three, once I activated console:
timedemo 18
demo (name of the demo)

Then I played a couple of games and Quake III crashed (only the game, not system). Glitches and slowdowns in the first game I played.

bigfoot,
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Done! Sorry for the delay. I appreciate you looking into it!