I am going to type my confidence with MorphOS:


MorphOS will succeed.


One of the reasons why is because the other websites (and operating systems) look ugly. And they are getting uglier. They change the design and there is no reason why, except for gimmicks. The design is very complicated and resembles Tablets. Instead of improving the tablets to adapt to the websites, they change the design of the websites to make it look fashionable resembling a tablet.

I can never understand changing the design with the basis of fashion, and they do this often, and it is so bad every body using the websites has to figure out where to find every thing all over again. And again. And again.

The website patronizes the end user, insulting their intelligence. "Although we changed it last week, we changed it again. You can temporarily switch to the old version. ( ... but seriously, why? ) Yes, Google is doing this.

Also, Wikipedia (!) is changing its website design MediaWiki to resemble the tablet.

This has been happening for years now, but eventually people (at least some people) will revolt and not use the bad websites and bad computers. They will want a computer with the philosophy similar to MorphOS. (which means they will try MorphOS).

In conclusion, MorphOS gaining a major audience is not impossible.

No, it will never dominate and the reason why is because there are many who are content with using bad Tablet websites and Tablet devices. (and replacing said devices when they are no longer fashionable) But the efforts of MorphOS prove worthwhile to attract within 10 years, perhaps 1 million new people.



[ Edited by In_Correct 25.08.2015 - 12:58 ]

And here I thought that only AmigaOS4.x fanatics and a few of the "Classic" Amiga users were the only ones living in a fantasy land of their own creation.

1 million users? Really?

As for it succeeding, it will succeed at what? I think that it is already a success, just for being continuously developed for over 10+ years, and actually gaining more users over the last 5 years, instead of losing more users like probably all other segments of the Amiga community.

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One million users is a realistic possibility if MorphOS Development continues. There are how many Windows users? 15 Billion, 20 Billion? 1 Million is a very small number compared to that.

Are you trolling? There are only some 7 billion people living on this planet.

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Veto... I doubt any Amiga segment is loosing members : ) it is steady going up in the moment.
About the tablet oriented design... This is normal. Kids are growing up with phones and tablets.
The skylake cpu's will introduce a dsp and microphone in the CPU itself... Recognizing your voice even when the PC is off (at least what you would believe it is)....
time doesn't stand still..
1 mio. Users : D I would be happy if any Amiga platform could reach this but before this may happen we may have lost conventional computers already... In 150years...

http://www.itworld.com/article/2974590/hardware/skylake-has-a-voice-dsp-and-listens-to-your-commands.html

morphos would need to introduce security layers, internet technology, and the possibility to handle hd material (ram limit) and so on.

It is in the moment attractive for ex Mac users, ex amigans (there is still a big number of ex amigans who did a hard cut and didn't follow mos, aros, aos)...

It will be exciting to see the transition to a new architecture... Right now you can't tell millions of Windows users to buy a used Mac...

Not trying to piss on your parade but currently there are how many active users= sub 4k?.
As much as i like morphos and its roots to aos its still a niche system that runs on on outdated hardware and lack important modern features .

For me its great i can use my hobby computer on internet browsing and watch hires videos and pictures, listen to music and much more. I could not do that on my amiga 1260 for example.
I can use it more with out changing computers all the time but for all the highend stuff i use another computer.
So simpler stuff and things that give me a nostalgic feeling "morphos"\ Videoediting,3d gaming and printing my PC.

What i am trying to say is that i dont believe 0,99 million users will come from nowhere and jump on an os that runs on proprietary hardware and lack important day to day features and common applications that they require for work etc.
If development continues at a steady rate and multi-core and memory limit raises i am sure more users will come but i also think that the appearance of modern based "tablet looking" OSs will be more popular regardless what you think.

People don't tend to care for more responsive systems they like eyecandy and what's new. If this was not true everybody would choose lightweight Linux distros however the most copied linux distro is kind of heavy weight.

Hardware these days are so powerful that it does not matter that much anyways.

30000 k maybe after x86 64bit but then you will probbably have two camps ppc and that .

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No, but I can suggest it to former Amiga users.
There are a fair number of them that still have not come back.

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Yep

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I am not talking about people. I am talking about user license. I'm sure there are billions of computers, in offices, computer labs, etc.

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But two or three Windows systems for every person on the planet?
Seem a little high.
Although I do own four.
And two MorphOS systems.
And an Amiga.

And..a crap load of other hardware.

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I find this very annoying too. Maybe they are getting lazy too and change everything to look like mobile sites, instead of making separate desktop and mobile ones.

But with today's monitors which are something like 24" or bigger, everything just looks horribly big on the screen and not much information visible at one look, and you have to scroll a LOT with your mouse on desktop machines. It's getting very clumsy.

And while the pages look really simple, they still are getting incredibly heavy... I don't like this trend at all. Last.fm went just like that too.. *puke*...

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I think the reference to laziness is a bit unfair. Given the amount of screen sizes and resolutions that today´s web developers have to deal with (anything between tiny 3.5 inch smartphones and 6 inch phablets, 7 inch and 12 inch tablets, 11 inch and 17 inch notebooks as well as 20 inch and 27 inch desktop monitors), it is simply unfeasible to expect anybody to develop specific versions for all these device types.

As far as consumer device form factors and sizes is concerned, the technology world has become a lot more diverse in recent years.

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For many years now, more than half of all sales of personal computers have been for notebooks. As a result, the standard screen size of the average computer user is nowhere near 24 inches, yet the display resolution is often similar to larger desktop display. So, since most users stare at small but detailed notebook screens, this does affect user interface design. What may look large to you on a 24 inch 1080P display, may look perfectly proportioned on a 13 inch 1080P display.

The good news is that desktop monitors are getting more varied too. If you are interested in smaller UI elements, you can already buy 25 inch displays with 4K resolutions for somewhat reasonable prices nowadays.

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And you base this statement on what existing facts??? Or is it just your wishful thinking that all segments of the existing Amiga inspired community is gaining more users each day, week, or month?

My personal guess is that we continue to lose users, but at a slower rate now than we have lost them in the past, because those that remain, are mostly the hard core, dedicated users, who are too stubborn to leave, plus there aren't as many motivations to leave now, when there have been many (small or large) improvements over the last few years, and there have not been any significant improvements in the mainstream OSes recently, that were not available 5 to 7 years ago.

[ Edited by amigadave 27.08.2015 - 13:38 ]

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Jim, for the last 3 years I am presenting constantly MorphOS to ex Amiga users at local amiga shows or in live weekly gatherings. The trouble with the returning user is that they have the fond memory of the Amiga for what it was: the wonder child of the computer industry. Some did purchase compatible machines and gave it a go, fewer have registered a license since most tend to try it briefly and once they find out that it cannot compete with mainstream OSes, they withdraw. Therefore, my opinion is to focus on target groups interested in niche/indie operating systems. Perhaps a Haiku user/developer has more prospect to become an avid MorphOS user/dev than a said classic user who gets in touch with the Amiga scene after 20 years but keeps remembering the Amiga as the dream machine with over the top multimedia capabilities and a ton of third party software/games. Plus - and I am speaking with more than 3 yrs of personal experience about this subject - MorphOS's look & feel is far away than the stock 1.3/3.1 wb that many used to have. On the Amiga shows, OS4.1. attracts more interest than MorphOS just by starring at it. I don't know if this is caused due to the Amiga logo, default gui (reaction) and/or icon set, but I can assure you that 9/10 have told me that OS4.1. resembles closely the image they had kept of Workbench.

Stefanos,
Yes, that could be a problem.
I was not as impressed with the original Amiga platform as I am with MorphOS.
It could be that since my background includes working with 68K, micro kernel OS based systems I see how much MorphOS improves on Amiga OS.

Amiga fanatics are apparently willing to settle for less.

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What year did you first experience an Amiga computer Jim?

Although I bought a Timex Sinclair computer before I got my first Amiga A1000, I didn't know anything about computers at the time, and never took the time to really use or learn anything about the Sinclair. It was not until I read a magazine article about the Amiga around late 1985, or early 1986 that my interest in computers was increased to the point that I wanted to learn more and possibly buy one for myself. Even then, I did not try to use my Sinclair, in fact, I think I had already misplaced it, being busy trying to change careers around that time.

In 1987 I successfully did change career paths and ended up working in an office that was just starting to switch from typewriters to word processors. I'm not sure what kind of PC's we were using (probably 286), but the software was Word Star, and within 2 months after starting there, I had most of the other secretarial staff within the building coming to me to ask for support on how to do things in Word Star that I had quickly learned, from all the letters I was required to write at that time. Shortly afterwards, an intern who worked part time and was also a computer science college student, brought his Amiga A2000 with 8088 bridgeboard into work to do some of his school work during his breaks, or after work, as he lived far away and sometimes would stay over night at a friend's house near work, instead of driving all the way back to his own apartment. That was the first Amiga I had ever seen, but it brought back my memories of the article I had read the year before, and how impressed I was with the capabilities of the Amiga compared to all other computers I had seen up to that time.

I was really excited to see the Amiga in action, and the intern was happy to show it to me and tell me all about it. He had an Amiga user friend who wanted to sell his A1000, but told me that it might be better for me to buy a new A500 instead, as the expansion possibilities for the A1000 were more limited, and might be more expensive than what was (or soon would be) available for the A500. I couldn't afford to buy an A2000 at that time, so I decided to buy the used A1000 with 1080 monitor and extra A1010 external 3.5" floppy drive, instead of a new A500, which would have been about the same price, but without a monitor, or extra floppy drive.

So, as you can see, I was very impressed with the Amiga when I first saw it, and remained very impressed for many years, until most PC's were being sold with VGA & 16bit Sound cards at prices that were not much more than what I had paid for my 2nd Amiga, a used A2000, which I bought about 3 to 4 years after my A1000 purchase. My income and other expenses never allowed me to buy a new Amiga computer while they were being sold by Commodore. I always had to buy used Amigas, or New Old Stock, in the case of my CD32 bought from someone on eBay, and the CDTV that I was lucky enough to get from Carl Sassenrath just a couple of years ago at an AmiWest Show.

[ Edited by amigadave 28.08.2015 - 14:19 ]

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I don't think that MorphOS should try to look like AmigaOS4.x, or to try to look and feel like any earlier versions of AmigaOS, but I do think that showing both the standard MorphOS look and feel, plus having a 2nd MorphOS system next to it showing a modified Ambient desktop that looks more like AmigaOS3.x, or 4.x, is a good idea when promoting MorphOS to former Amiga users. Showing them how easy it is to make MorphOS look and feel more like the AmigaOS that they remember so fondly, is a more likely way to get them to accept MorphOS as a way to enjoy their retro Amiga software.

Although it was not my intent to disparage Hyperion and AmigaOS4.x when I decided to buy my X1000, I might set up my dual 2.7GHz G5 running MorphOS3.9 right next to my X1000 at the next AmiWest Show, and alter the look of MorphOS3.9 to mimick AmigaOS4.1FE. That way people at the show can compare the two machines and OSes and see which one is better, or feels more like the Amiga of their childhood memories.

Is there a current MorphOS theme which changes the look to match AmigaOS4.x still being maintained? I hope I don't have to duplicate the look & feel myself by creating the AmigaOS4.x theme over again. I know that there was such a theme created some years ago, but I don't know if any work to update it has been done lately.

> Is there a current MorphOS theme which changes the look to match AmigaOS4.x still
> being maintained? [...] I know that there was such a theme created some years ago,
> but I don't know if any work to update it has been done lately.

jPV has put some work into a MUI theme and recommends to use it with the FourOne skin:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11053&forum=14&start=18
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11060&forum=14&start=21
http://jpv.wmhost.com/morphos/os41feish/

OK, I think I have mentioned my history before, but I am not as loathe to repeat it as Andreas might be (and I would never be able to find the references).
I have been using personal computers since the late '70s.
Starting with a SWTPC 6800 system that was latter updated to a 6809, using FLEX OS and later Microware OS-9.
I worked for a company that owned an franchised Radio Shack store and a Marine electronics outlet (so one of my more useless skills is knowledge on the setup of marine radar systems).
I could not afford an A1000 when it was introduced, and I continued to work with several 8 bit systems.
The company I worked for decided to develop systems based on Peripheral Technologies PT68K motherboards.
We used Microware's OS-9 for the 68K as our OS, developed drivers for Tseng Labs ET4000 based video cards, and we ported an X-Windows based GUI written by Steve Adams for the process control company Gespac called GWindows. Our base systems supported four terminals (without the video card, keyboard, or mouse) at less than $1000. It was a popular system to base POS systems on. Add a keyboard, mouse and video card and you had a stand alone computer or a five user system.
We primarily used 68000 based PT68K4 motherboards, but later we also added the 68020 based PT68K5.
We offered real time 6809 interpreter program that allowed users of older 8 bit systems like the SWTPC to run their older software.
And we had a V20 based board called the Alt86 that allowed the system to run DOS (and which I did test with Windows 3.0).
Before my employer passed away, there were plans for a redesigned X86 board and a hardware based 6809 solution in the works and we were considering the 68030.

Now, back to the Amiga's, during this period I purchased a second hand A2000 (still one of my favorite Amigas) and I had a rather rare copy of OS-9 that was ported to that platform by an Australian company (that priced their product way out of the market).

I also got a first had view of the evolution of the Wintel PC as we sold Tandy and third party systems. Once we were visited by some IBM representatives and I obtained a pre-release version of Windows 3.0 about 3/4 of a year before it could be bought. Frankly, that OS gave me a sinking feeling about the future of the then diverse computer market (which has since narrowed down to a few very similar platforms).

I loved the Amiga, and obviously am partial to Motorola processors like the 68K.
And, as OS-9 is micro kernel based, I am extremely fond of MorphOS (which I see as a significant improvement over the Amiga's operating system).

I still have contacts with Motorola Semi's successor Freescale (and I still have early versions of the 6829 MMU I received from Motorola, plus they gave me a lot of inside info related to later developments in Tandy's Color Computer line).
I recently contacted the owner of Peripheral Technologies to inquire about getting one last 68020 board populated (Fred has bare boards still in stock).

There are a LOT of past experiences I could also relate.
Like doing work study with the touchscreen based Plato system for Dr. Fred Hofsteter (who later became the Director of Multimedia) at The University of Delaware while still in High School.
In the '70s with no formal computer education then available (the U of D only offered Electrical Engineering) Dr. Hofsteter recognized my interest and abilities and offered me a job if I got a two year degree. I probably should have followed through with that.

Anyway, to summarize, I have had a fair amount of experience, I have seen better solutions lose to inferior offerings (often due primarily to market forces, not sound judgement), and since the Amiga was introduced I have been frustrated by the slow adoption by market leaders of other companies plainly superior ideas.



[ Edited by Jim 29.08.2015 - 07:04 ]

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I have numbers for indiego AppStore, sales of aeros plus and premium and 21000+ Unanswered email by interested non community members collected since 2014.
I see those license statistics of mos and I see how many people I can reach with advertisement when only focused on keywords like aros, amigaos and similar...
Numbers are growing.
I agree that the active numbers in forum doesn't reflect this but hey tell me if every iPhone user is active in a iPhone forum...

[ Edited by phoenixkonsole 29.08.2015 - 11:43 ]

I also want to praise the quality of Odyssey Web Browser for not being annoying like Google Chrome or Fire Fox.

I remember 15 years ago Microsoft Internet Explorer contained various error messages which redirected to a different web page. The redirect page contained an essay of troubleshooting information. All the other browsers of that time period contained their various error messages in requesters.

When Microsoft Internet Explorer announced an overhaul, I would think that Microsoft Internet Explorer would display its error messages in requesters like the other browsers did. Instead, all the other browsers now contain their error messages in redirect pages!

I have also had enough of Google Chrome and Fire Fox's error redirect pages. Fire Fox contains the essay of troubleshooting information. Google Chrome is even worse, displaying a cartoon frowny faced piece of paper and an error code. Even worse, they display patronizing conversations such as "Aw, Snap!" and "He's Dead, Jim!" with even more cartoons. The cartoons are not necessary and the error code need not take up an entire page. It fits nicely in a requester.

The only requester-based browsers that I can think of are non-mainstream versions such as Classilla and Odyssey.

So thanks again for keeping the Odyssey browsers sleek and easy to use and much less complicated!

Also, I tried to launch Forbes website recently. It now has an ugly tablet website. The salt in the wound is where they have the Forbes logo in the top left corner, disappears (complete with visual effects) when you scroll to the top of the page. This is completely unnecessary.

Compare with MorhpOS "Desktop" Themed websites! MorphOS will attract people who do not like Tablets! I don't think that MorphOS will ever (or at least I doubt that they will make it a priority.) to add complex features such as Start Screen, Hot Corners, Charms Bar, Expose and etc. which also has an advantage to people who don't like the tablet functions enabled don't like spending much time to turn off the unnecessary tablet functions.

is this thread totally ironic or did i miss the point ?

> Compare with MorhpOS "Desktop" Themed websites! MorphOS will attract people
> who do not like Tablets!

I've never heard anyone say or write that he switched to MorphOS because he likes the design of MorphOS-related websites but not the design of websites related to Windows, MacOS or Linux.

I think you are missing the point. The websites and even their browsers are slow just like the APIs of Windows, OS X, and Linux.

And I have preferred MorphOS for those reasons (I have no background from Commodore Amiga.) so I guess I am the first person to write it. I cannot possibly be the only person to revolt against the big 3.

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No, I'm revolting too. ;)