@Nowee
You can't stop posting this kind of message too...Everybody knows that It's a fuckin liar and a stupid manager.
Never work with him again...This kind of people use your amiga's hopes to get some job for free.

This thread is getting no where. May the powers that be find a way out of this mess SOON. As for the negative waves, well suck it up, there is already enough hot air in this thread to lift a Zepplin with air to spare.

Surely is not (for now) say "everithing is end" becouse the message of developers is they don't release MOS until they get payed. They DON'T say they have close MOS project.

I think now MOS 1.5 maybe is "ready" on much time, maybe month, but they alredy waiting to be payed for release it. (Becouse this is a indiscretion from outside MOS team, some developer correct me if I wrong. :D ). Wait is long, people become nervous, so now they think to act.
They are exasperated for a situation they think unrightiful, so I think they have right to use these extreme measures. Also is right if ALL DEVELOPER are finally paied: say "we have pay only someone" is not a good thing to justify a distribuition of MOS before everyone have received their wages.

MOS is not dead, but it show up only when finally Developer will be (finally) fully rewarned. Long or short time, fault of Genesi or not, this is situation, and probably only Genesi can resolve it.

@bbrv,

I am still confused... I do not understand why the public has to know how much has or hasn't been paid..(we all know that money has been tight?) and/or Why has this saga continued for months ( at least via rumors. )

For the sake of Genesi, and all of us that support you, please get this sorted out.


...and as for the future who is Morphos' spokesman? When is any concrete information regarding the future of Morphos going to be stated?

Prior to this conversation nothing new has been said (officially) since the release of Mos 1.4

Personally I believe this situation can be solved. But why let it get this far? Oh well what's out is out, and can't be changed... I just want to believe that this rift will be healed. And in the future be avoided if possible. I bought My peg because of Morphos... 'nuff said

katos1: Whatever has happened, it's been goin on months (years?) behind the scenes and it won't go away overnight. Based on public comments it's apparently left deep cuts into Mos development and suppport.

as far as spokesmen i will take the role of "completly unofficial spokesman"
so here is what i understand to be thre case (again is some of my facts are wrong please correct me)
1) genesi is focusing more on hardware and a linux stradegy to make some money, as the market is higher for this at the moment, and more money going into genesi is good because it can be used to further MOS and the peg.
2) MOS is being developed....slowly.....and by less of the core team that was previously.....there are confilicts between genesi and the core MOS team that hinder development at the time.......
3) things will get better.......but there is a mending process that must be gone through first.......

@Poundsmack

I think you miss a vital point - there is apparently a rift in the MOS development team and outward indications/rumours say this has been going on for months.

I believe David Gerber was one of the 'official MOS spokesmen' for a start.

Whether or not the morphos.net hacking was one person's work or all 4 of the people indicated were party to it is open to question.

<edit> I just babelfish'd the news on amiganews.de and it 'confirms' that the morphos.net posting is entirely the work of David Gerber </edit>

Genesi have stated that some of those people were employed by Thendic_France. One might take this as a policy statement to say they won't see another penny out of Genesi.

Ambient (in it's public release form) does not have much functionality but I suspect it took a lot of work to get to that point. It's badly in need of an update but unless MorphOS team own the code to it, then they have to start from scratch here.

I do not know what Olli was responsible for (Voyager, along with David?)....is the money owed simply licensing fees..anyway there's no core loss to MorphOS here but it's nice to have a native PPC browser right?

MUI, on the other hand, is a blow at the heart of MorphOS core - unless this is resolved I don't hope for continuation.

Remember the MOS official spokesperson list? There's no statement from Frank or Ralph at this point (only conjecture from bbrv) so it could get better or a whole lot worse...

[ Edited by JKD on 2004/11/16 10:10 ]

[ Edited by JKD on 2004/11/16 11:01 ]

yes i realize this devision has been going on for many months, but yes you are right in all you have said as far as i am concrend....

All I can say is ouch!!!

After spending some six months deciding
between AmigaOne and Pegasos I finally
bought my PegasosII G4 about 6 weeks ago.

I did not buy it as a Linux Machine - as most
people on here would probably say that the
thing that brought us to the Pegasos is
the Amiga-Like environment in MorphOS.

The bonus being that the machine could also run linux and mac-on-linux.

MorphOS is the heart and soul of the Pegasos.

The only reason to run linux is to get an inbuilt
tcp/ip stack (as opposed to morphos), a decent web browser and to run apps that
there is no morphos equivalent of.

If I had just wanted a Linux Machine, I could
have spent nothing and added a Linux Install
to my Pentium IV 3.2 ghz machine.

Let me stress it again the Amiga-Like
environment of MorphOS led me to buy the
Pegasos - Nothing Else.

I am sure that Genesi were more than happy
to pick up the dis-illussioned Amiga user base
that came and defected to Pegasos.

Bear in mind without MorphOS this machine
is just an over-priced linux box and in this
configuration has nothing to distinguish
itself above any other beige boxes.

MorphOS is the main selling point
a tiny compact OS that is lightning fast
and offers good compatibility with previous
Amiga Software.

I for one think that you should look at your
userbase and see how upset we all are.

I feel this News will kill prospective sales of
pegasos systems stone dead.

Of course I would gladly pay for MorphOS 1.5
or 2.0 but it must have tcp/ip a decent
browser and mui/ambient as well as knowing
what app to run for specific filetypes.

The thing is MorphOS will not be released
until the developers get paid. (quite rightly).
So unless they get paid then the option to
buy a copy is not available either.

I am guessing that in the same timescale
that Genesi Management got paid every month...

Wherein lies the questions

Why do they think that people are buying
Pegasos? Answer : MorphOS

What do the users of Pegasos Systems most
want to see? Answer : Updated MorphOS

What is the future of Pegasos without MorphOS? Answer : Very Poor

Most people wanting to run Linux on a PPC will buy a mac. Enabling running of MAC native and PPC Linux Dual-Boot

C'mon Genesi! lets see this resolved.

Not being paid since July 2003 is a bit much
to ask anyone to bear.

Maybe you should be looking at your own Salaries and for the future of the company
see what you can do to pay the MorphOS Team

Even if that includes taking donations from
Pegasos Users to pay for MorphOS.


If I had read this news 6 weeks or so ago
then I would have bought an a1 no question.

Regards

Niteman1969



[ Edited by niteman1969 on 2004/11/16 20:49 ]

Guys, calm down...

The posting on Morphos.net has helped no one, least of all the people who posted it.

It may have damaged Genesi's reputation a bit but probably not where it's important. If it was to do serious damage it'd only ensure the posters would never be paid.

So far the result has been to damage the reputation of MorphOS.
Who gains from that exactly?


Discussing this in public isn't going to make things better or solve anything.
It's best to keep things like this in private.

Quote:
I know he has received it, and already started thinkering with it.
Much appreciated, at least from my side.

Anyway... I still hope there's a possibility to get to a solution. The
main problem I see, is that people who were once contracted relyed on
the wages from either Thendic or France for their bills. They
weren't developing just for fun, they were doing it for a living. For
this reason I think they should get what they are owed, better sooner
than later. Unluckily, the latest developments show a drift between
parts of the development team. But, even more, thay show that the
relationships between some of these (valuable) developers and Genesi
are really bad at this point. But the modules that those people
developed are, IMHO, really valuable. Hopefully, Genesi will be able
to forget this stunt and do the right thing: try to forget the past,
make sure to rectify errors, pay those developers and try to find a
new agreement to get them on board again.
It's clear that MorphOS can't pay the people that are working on it:
2000 users at most are not enough. Before MOS can stand on its own
feet, it has to mature more (and the touted features of 1.5 were more
than a step in the right direction). Genesi was overoptimistic with it
and with the status of this niche and this market. If MOS wants to
survive, it needs to find its own niche, where he can have the
possibility to shoe its strenght. But loosing important parts of the
OS wouldn't be a step in the right direction.
I really hop one day MorphOS will pay its own development. Although
it's unfortunate, to say the least, what's happening now, and although
today Genesi's and bbrv's behaviour is not really to be taken as a
good example, we have to reckon that things would have been worse
without Genesi: they thrown more money in this market than anyone else
after Commodore. Sadly the market could not sustain it: and they
should have been honest with their employees when they discovered
this...

This does not change a thing: I'm having a lot of fun with MOS and the
Pegasos, I almost never switch that PC on again at all! This is the
main reason I'd like to see all of this settled, and this shows what a
great work the developers and the guys at bPlan and Genesi, and even
bbrv, who "gave" us the SuperBundle, made. Keep up the good work,
guys.

Kind regards,
Andrea

Could we all stop this bullshit talk and let the directly
concerned parties solving this out themselves?
Public crucifiction doesn't help either party.


Thank you MorphOS Team for what you have done so far.
Thank you Genesi for what you have done so far.

[ Edited by ironfist on 2004/11/16 23:02 ]

Though I didn´t participate here for ages, I have been observing the developments of both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.0 over the last years, waiting which one would establish a superiority.
Until now it looked like MorphOS would be my next OS of choice...
With Papyrus Office just being released and Pagestream being almost ready, MorphOS would have been perfect for me.

Anyway...
I´ll keep my comment to this problem as simple as possible:
MorphOS is good.
Everything/everybody that/who threatens the future of MorphOS is bad.
Ergo BBRV are bad.
If BBRV don´t turn good again by paying the MorphOS-Team, they should be separated from any influence over MorphOS.
Ergo the MorphOS-Team might consider to become independent or join someone elses company.
(GPL, porting MOS to other plattforms [AmigaOne, Mac] ... )
Whatever the options may be, changes have to be made indeed.

But I strongly oppose BBRV´s threat of exchanging some members of the core team just because of this conflict, which wouldn´t have started in the first place if BBRV had properly paid the MOS-team.

@ DoctorMorbius_FP

Thank you!


@ The rest

I feel this thread leads nowhere, so I will stop following it now. So if something new is happening of general interest, feel free to post it in a new thread!

Quote:

Without BBRV there would not have been a MorphOS as we know it today. That's a fact. And no Pegasos either, for that matter.

So hold your fire mate!

And Without MorphOS there would not have been a PegasosI/II or a BBRV as we know it today , so ?

[ Edited by DDJ on 2004/11/16 21:22 ]

I have nothing to say except that I hope this will be resolved.

Quote:

But that does not matter.
Does a mother have the right to beat her children just by saying that "Without me none of you would have been born so don´t you dare to complain while I treat you as I please!"?

To Be honest since i got my pegasos 6 weeks
ago I haven't really been impressed with
Genesi and their false advertising

Apart from putting a list which includes non-existant features in MorphOS on genesi's websites, Access to the "Free" superbundle has been ceased cant even register for it?

Sure I can buy it from my Pegasos Supplier
for 18 euros + p.p but its another cost for an already IMHO quite expensive system.

If it is supposed to be FREE and I cant download it then it should be down to
genesi to bundle the CD's with the system
board as with MorphOS.

I feel cheated that others have already downloaded these extras and I cannot.

As for Morphos 1.4 i like it a lot and after
getting lots of downloaded 3rd Party
apps to get over the missing features it
works well.

Until all the features as promised are in MorphOS i will not be paying anything.

Yes I agree it is worth paying for, but only
if full TCP/IP Stack is included, 3d support for Radeon , Full Printing support , FireWire,
etc etc are included, as well as a deficons type utility, and a simple cut and paste or copy and paste option from window to window.

As it is now I still use my PC for everything
as every function i need is there.

Why not use Linux you may ask?

Easy - I cannot get ANY version of Linux to
fully install on this machine.

YDL installs but halts during boot saying something about /var/ directory.

Debian CD supplied with system starts installing and comes up with bootstrap errors.

Debian Netinstall only goes as far as installing
base system but fails on last part retreiving 2.6.8. Kernal.

So all in all I have a Morphos only system at the moment which is still in need of more 3rd party and old amiga s/w to get it anywhere
near a replacement for my wintel machine.

Regards

Niteman1969

Quote:

Here I agree. MOS 1.4.2 is a very good OS...but it is missing key parts - very important parts. I can't print with MOS, so of course I would not even consider buying Papyrus Office - wouldn't even make sense to buy a word processor if I can't even print! Built in TCP/IP - thankfully I registered Miami while it was still possible. A built in TCP/IP stack would be good. A good working browser would be nice too.

I did the sensible thiing and bought a Mac. It prints, it has built in TCP stack - and hate to say it - OS X is a very nice OS! Very MOS-like - but it all works!

My Peggy is used 100% for DNETC crunching while it awaits upgrades.

It is very important to me that MOS is finished before I pay anytihing for it.

[ Edited by DSLCC on 2004/11/16 20:28 ]

JKD says:

Quote:Quote:Quote:

I see it pretty much the same. It's very difficult to envision MOS without MUI. However Voyager could be removed from the MOS installation CD and then the authors could go back to getting revenue from people who buy it, including MOS users who buy it. There would need to be another browser on the MOS CD then, and I don't see anything in the AWeb Public License that prohibits its being distributed on a MOS CD or that of another OS.

I don't really understand where MUI leaves off and Ambient begins. It looks to me like Ambient is advantageous to MOS and better at this time than existing desktop alternatives for MOS. So hopefully Ambient stays. My understanding (this is from reading amiganews.de) is that Ambient and Voyager for MOS are provided by David Gerber and Oliver Wagner contributes to Voyager too. If Voyager is removed from MOS distribution so they can sell it some more, then Genesi should not have to pay them as much.

It seems to me from what I've read that Genesi owes Nowee some money for web programming he did. He might be willing to settle up for a compromise amount. The money we're talking about here is not so terribly high for this kind of thing. Genesi should extend an offer of a compromise amount and Nowee should accept it, unless it is ridiculously low.

If Genesi settles with Nowee and brings payments up-to-date with Stefan Stuntz (for MUI), and remove Voyager, then it's a question of coming to terms with David Gerber on Ambient.

Genesi says that what is bad for Genesi is bad for MorphOS, but it time that they also equally state the truism that what is good for MorphOS is good for Genesi, and IMO BBRV should also stop flirtatiuos comments about Pegasos and OS4 and Adam Kowalczyk and so on.

Well it seems since I have left for a few months things all are getting worse off and not better as I wanted. I am one of the users that got rid of a high end Amiga with PPC to get a Pegasos. We are talking thousands of dollars into my old A3000. If MOS goes away I am so out of the scene for good. I dont want linux, I use MacOS X which is a far better unix spin off in my book.

LETS FIGURE THIS OUT PLEASE!!!!

this is a ll very frusterating to me...

 Attached file(s) 

That says it all! :)

Quote:

You are not alone. But what the fuck.. it's been worth it, right? I'd never go back PPC'd A1200 with PicassoIV. Never. MorphOS 1.4 already brings so much more joy than my old AOS setup from a few years back.
and YES, also I would like to have it updated. It's not perfect, but it does pretty much the same things my Amiga did, but so much better. I don't complain.

EDIT: Except for creating music, which is a downer. Where the hell is DB Pro and new PT, god damn it???
Quote:

So do I. But I choose to wait some time and see what happens. What I/You have got to lose by waiting?