Hey everybody, after finishing putting together my first Powermac, I needed OS software to test it out.
I partitioned my 160GB Maxtor into two partitions and loaded the first partition with OSX and the second with Kubuntu.
I was already biased as I expected OSX to be the better operating system. After all, its BSD based and there are decent proprietary drivers for my 9250 video card. Besides, coming from a Windows environment, I guess I'd bought into the supposed superiority that Apple always claims in its advertising.
But, after working with both OS', I'll take Linux over MacOS hands down. Installing Firefox was much easier under Linux, and I still haven't figured out what caused Open Office to bomb under OSX (and
I may never since I don't think I'm going to keep using it).

Posting this message under Kubuntu 9.10. Waiting faithfully for MorphOS, but at least I've got the hardware ready.

BTW - I can confirm the posting that the Sapphire Radeon 9250 256MB video card does flash correctly for a Mac. I had to modify and install one last night when my Apple 9000Pro decided to start dying.

Take care, all.
Jim

I guess OSX is rather lathargic on PPC, but the Oo worked fine so not sure what that hiccup is. I absolutely love the ubuntu on my laptop. I want a rythmnbox port for morphos. some issues with firefox though I'd rather a true chrome port. For total enjoyment though it's my MorphOs.
With the issues with mp3 players, what exactly are programmers doing to sinc the unit? If we could also get them to since then the mp3 files would be better recognized on most players.
That's another thread!

Jim,

I'm happily using Mac OS X on a PowerPC box and I have friends doing the same. Of course I have a great love for Linux as well.

It's Unix versus Windows, not Mac OS X versus Linux versus *BSD, etc...!

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Why, sure! It must be soooo difficult to drop FireFox's icon into The Applications folder. Sooo difficult i tell you.

Oh my! Horrors! Sarcasm!

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Yep! That's what should have happened. And when it didn't I couldn't kill the process that was locking up the system (while still looking like it was doing just what it was supposed to do). It's funny, Mac user just don't want to admit that sometimes their OS craps out (just like any other OS may occasionally).

I'm glad Apple managed to create something I thought was impossible, an easy to use, crash free operating system. It explains why they designed the case of the Quicksilver Powermacs so as to cover the drive eject buttons. I won't cover the crash that made that sheer genius decision a problem for me, but it was pretty ridiculous having to drop into Open Firmware so that I could issue a drive eject command and retrieve my disk.

The problem with some Mac owners is that they are convinced of their systems superiority, while others keep stumbling over the rough points no one wants to talk about.

Hey, just remember it was Steve Jobs that decided the Apple III should have a heavy die cast aluminum case (supposedly for passive cooling). We used to keep spares of those around so that when re-seating the chips that wiggled lose from thermal expansion no longer worked, we could swap out parts (till we located the problem and got them booting again).

Sorry, I had to delete about five more paragraphs because this just went on too long (and went in too many directions). Its been a little frustrating over the years watching Jobs (and Woz) on one team and Gates on the other getting rich marketing unoriginal ideas (and either threatening or absorbing those who challenge them).

To all Mac lovers, yeah its great when it works (I just plugged in my HP printer and since it was supported -boom- its ready).
But when there a problem, it can actually be a bigger pain than other OS' that grew out of a command line.

Since the '70's I've always touted the idea that one day computers would evolve into something almost 'appliance' like (almost intuitively easy to use). I think Apple tried to realize this goal a little to early. But, if its worked for you, more power to you.

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/19 3:15 ]

I think OS X Leopard, once you use monolingual and trimthefat apps, is just as clean and easy as Tiger for PPCs. I have had considerable trouble installing Linux on my MDD, especially since the cd drive is borked and you can't boot a usb cd drive.

Actually, I think you're right there. Leopard, once you're adjusted to it actually has some improvements over Tiger (although its a lot larger). And I'm not trying to fault Apple in its design or execution.
I only wanted to point out that after years of using other OS' (and giving more credit to Apple's hyperbole than I should have), having now had some experience with OSX, I no longer felt that there was anything there to envy.
Just like any other OS, Mac OS has its good points, its bad points, and its occasional unexplained crashes.

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Yeah, I thought the same thing, haha....

@Jim,

I am by no means a Mac fanboy, but after learning to use computers from my first Amiga, an A1000, which gave me an edge at work when all the secretaries and other office staff could not figure out something on their 1987 Windows computers running WordStar and several proprietary/custom DOS applications and they ran to me to ask for help figuring out what they were doing wrong, or how to use a function/feature. But after 17 years of using various flavors of Windows at work and probably 14 years at home, I got my first Mac (1GHz G4 PowerBook). I have to say that MacOSX is far superior to any WindowsOS version (I will exclude Win7 as I have not used it and don't plan on buying it any time soon). I don't know what your level of experience with MacOSX is, but I believe that if you knew more about it, such as which key to depress during boot to have the CD/DVD drive eject instead of going to the Open Firmware prompt, you might not feel the same way you do about trash talking MacOSX, or you may not have gotten as frustrated with the problems you experienced with it. I have been using it for probably about 5 years now, but I have not put hardly any effort into learning all the commands and key combinations available that make using MacOSX easier and more efficient. I have never used a Unix/BSD shell in MacOSX, nor have I needed to. I am no longer too interested in learning all the inner workings of any OS, so I guess I appreciate the way MacOSX works more than I would have 20+ years ago when I got my first Amiga.

I don't think that MacOSX has a huge advantage or difference between itself or Windows now, but I do think it is better. I also think that Mac hardware is as good or better than 95% of the PC hardware out there and I like the design, finish and packaging of Apple products above their competition, so I do not mind paying a premium for those features compared to typical PC hardware and any WindowsOS.

Apple integration between their own hardware items is good as well and I enjoy that feature (MacBook, iPod, iPhone). Like any manufacturer Apple has it's "Pro's & Con's" and their products are not for everyone. I just wish that the World of computing were different and the Amiga had BEAT the competition 20 years ago and we weren't even having this discussion because the Amiga had 85% to 90% of the Worldwide market share for desktop and laptop computers today.

Edit: After about 5 years of use everyday I have only experienced 1 crash on MacOSX that could not be saved by using "Force Quit" to shut down the offending application. During the same time frame I have had dozens of crashes on Windows machines that have taken the whole OS down and sometimes corrupted and/or lost data in the process.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2010/3/18 20:56 ]

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i'd consider you lucky. I've been a mac user from the +400mhz PPC era to the Intel recently (last machine i had was a macbook air). And i couldn't count the kernel panics i had all these years, just too many of them, with no other choice than powering the mac off and praying not to loose any data. But i lived with them, for me it has always been the element of suprise in OSX. I also think that the apple hardware quality seriously decreased in the last 3 years. They are not even able to get a new machine out without fixing bugs (hardware ad software) for one/two years before it becomes really stable.
At the moment i use a hackintosh and it's the most stable mac i've ever had : )
We all have different experiences.

Actually, I don't believe that the points I've brought up are in any way "trash talking". I've used personal computers since the late 70's, before IBM entered the market. I feel I've had a fair ammount of experience with a lot of different systems.
Personally, I'd be the first to admit that the development of the Wintel based platform has been painful. However, since the platform is supported by more than one vendor (which, believe me, was in no way IBM's intent) I find the lower pricing and wider range of available hardware to be of significant benefit.
As to the idea of trash talking, I must have allowed Apple's own marketing, snide and pompous as it was to affect my thinking when I received a copy of Vista with my last OEM purchase of WinXP. I didn't permanently install this OS until after I'd spent months using the widely available Beta copy of Win7.
After seeing what Microsoft has done (and why), I'm not real impressed with Apple's use of Microsoft increased security pop-ups as a way to demean their competition. Frankly, while it does take a second to verify that you want a piece of third party software to run, doing so provides a nice buffer against the automatic instillation of malware (that I've seen take down other's computers).
Frankly, Mac users sometimes remind me of religious zealots. Anytime you present something about their system in a less than positive light they freak out.
BTW - Your solution to the ejection problem I had doesn't work if the OS won't accept the command. Apple itself recommends the Open Firmware solution as a last ditch method to retrieve your CDs. Frankly, I still think it was hubris on Apple's part when they decided to force you go through software to eject CDs.
As to the apparent bias exhibited by Apple users. Frankly, I'm not sure that the average Apple user comes from the same background I have (of course, in turn, neither do most PC users). These individuals are used to having things simplified for them. Once they're used to something, they're loath to change. And finally, they don't adapt well to other, alternative, systems.
Its not that I've come to believe that there is anything wrong with Apple's OS. It's just that I no longer buy into the hype that it is in any way superior. In fact, its got the same limitations and flaws I see in all others OS'.
Since Apple has adopted the X86 platform, the only thing that differentiates their products are their operating system and their sole source method of marketing.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of this Mac user hostility is generated because they feel threatened whenever someone counters their argument that they have a superior OS.
If this is the case, then I feel we have a difference in belief systems, not facts.

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/19 19:32 ]

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/19 19:34 ]

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/19 19:36 ]

> it was pretty ridiculous having to drop into Open Firmware so that I could issue a
> drive eject command and retrieve my disk.

"Restart the computer and hold down the mouse button when you hear the startup sound."
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2286

Edit: I see that you say you already tried that without success. Just ignore this post ;-)

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/3/19 21:31 ]

Well, actually since both result in a warm reboot (losing any information in your current session and potentially corrupting files), I rather considered each situation to be about equal. Although, yes the mouse button trick wasn't working for me. It might now, as I've replaced my Apple mouse with a standard two button wheeled optical PC mouse.
Further, I didn't point out that a similar situation can occur with a PC when the OS is severely crashed (even with an eject button), since both Mac OS and Windows software can prevent the eject button from functioning.
Perhaps there has been too much focus on this one issue. Personally, I'm modifying my Powermac to have access to the eject buttons. Of course, this still means I may have trouble ejecting a CD that a crashed application is trying to access. And, this situation would be no better on a Wintel based system.
But, then again, that has been my point. I see no advantage, and in fact little difference between OSX and Windows.

@SoundSquare & Jim,

I am thankful that I have been "Lucky" with my experiences on my Macs, maybe it has something to do with the software I have run (or more accurately have NOT run) on my Mac computers. You are right, we all do have different experiences with our computers, but when many or most users of a particular brand or OS start experiencing the same or similar problems, it usually starts to spread by word of mouth and through the various media sources. If MacOSX had the same amount of problems as Windows has had over the last 5 years or more I am sure that Apple probably would no longer exist, or would be in much worse shape financially and market share wise than they currently are. Frankly, it is a miracle that they still exist today at all considering the dominance of the Windows and Windows only software applications that have existed for the past 10+ years.

It is my real life experiences with both OSes for several years that has formed my opinions on both of them, not some religious belief system or fanatic loyalty. I can only explain the fervor of many Mac loyalists as being loud and heated, or sometimes obnoxious and like religious fanaticism because they feel threatened by the shear numbers of their opposition and attempts to belittle their appreciation and loyalty to the Apple brand, but I cannot deny that for many of the Mac user base it has become an irrational loyalty that is no longer based on facts. Having admitted that, I still maintain that there are fanatics on every side of a disagreement or issue and those fanatics are usually the one's making the most noise and getting the most noticed, but it does not mean that all Mac users are that way, or that there are no differences between the two systems that can be pointed to as advantages for either side. I will admit that the differences that count between MacOSX and Windows are much less today than they were 10 years ago and that both OSes are good and useful (neither are great and both have flaws).

For me, the differences or advantages that I see in Mac hardware design and OS functions are sufficient for me to justify my preference of choice and my assertion that MacOSX is "better" than any Windows version up to Vista Ultimate (as I cannot comment on Windows7). For others, they see different features or functions that lead them to oppose my opinion and prefer Windows and more often the freedom that it provides in hardware choices.

Actually, and surprisingly, Windows 7 is the most stable OS i've used until now. I've been using it for months now and i never had any crash or slowdowns even after very long sessions (i use it only for music production softwares and a fews games). I'm impressed, it's heavy of course, but on today PCs it's blazing fast (i run it on a corei7@3,8ghz, which helps a lot).
I'm getting off topic sorry, i was never a pro-windows but i wanted to share my experience with probably the best OS microsoft ever made.

Actually, it was never my intention to hold up one OS over another either. And frankly, I was really surprised when the sucessors to WinXP actually turned out to be more stable and reliable.
As to Macs and their OS, I've always been impressed with certain features that were incorporated into them. Its plainly obvious from some of the similarities between OSX and Windows that Microsoft has taken some clues from Apple as well.
And I'll go one step further, Microsoft's pricing on its latest upgrades has been really poor. Apple has never abused its customer base as much on upgrade OS pricing.
In no way was anything I said meant to influence anyone or affect their own buying decisions or platform loyalty.
Just to put a final point on it (and then hopefully we can let this post sink into obscurity), I merely meant to point out that since I hadn't had previous experience with using OSX I had always considered the heavily marketed possibility that OSX had some clear points of superiority.
After becoming more familiar with this core Apple product, I'm neither positive or negative about it I'm just more realistic. Like all other OS', it does crash, it can produce at least some minor frustrations (when it doesn't work the way it's supposed to), and it's really not that different (than any other OS).
Once again, I don't care what any of you use. Frankly, in the late 80's and early 90's I was convinced that the next wave of efficient operating systems would be based on micro kernals. The systems my company sold lost out to the market dominance of what I thought were inferior platforms (and by that I mean both Apple and IBM).
So today, while I know MorphOS will never attain a large market presence, and I know we will never get past the a-box and into the q-box (in fact even SMP or 64bit instructions seem unlikely) it's just nice to have an OS built on a kernal type I admire.
Quark (at the core of MorphOS) is a remarkable (and under MorphOS, underutilized) core.
I can't wait to use it one Apple hardware.
As one who is not convinced that Apple always makes the right decisions (see my previous reference to the AppleIII), I'm not sure Apple was right in moving away from PPC processors. Yes, it made good economic sense, but it also reduced the differentiation Apple products had. Plus, from what I've seen just playing around with the 7450, PPC seem to offer really good performance per clock cycle (something that Apple touted while they were selling them).
To close, I entered some of these messages on a Powermac, others I entered on an AMD based PC. Again, I didn't notice a significant difference between either of these platforms and that unsure sense of potential envy is gone.
Now I'm just waiting for the next revision of MorphOS.


[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/20 2:28 ]

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/20 2:30 ]

[ Edited by Jim on 2010/3/20 2:32 ]

> I'll take Linux over MacOS hands down.

Recent article about the various recent options of "Linux on PowerPC" (also going into *BSD) and their pros and cons:

http://lwn.net/Articles/395894/