"WE WILL NOT BE SELLING MAC OS MACHINES PERIOD. END OF STORY."

Then why don't you make that clear on your business site instead of having multiple comments that hint otherwise? Even if your not selling MacOS, advertising something illegal as a selling point is what you are still doing. Its the same thing as if Dell's website said "Our new Inspiron's come with wireless 802.11a so you can download MS Office from Kazaa 5x faster than before!" Does this example make it clear?

"WHAT I DO PERSONALLY IS MY OWN BUSINESS AND YOU SHOULD MIND YOUR OWN."

You are the one that chose to discuss your illegal practices in a public forum and then go so far as to advertise them on your business's public site. Instead of changing things or even recognizing what you were doing was not legal you make excuses. Then when you've run out of excuses you tell me to mind my own business in a public place?

"Now go about your life I will not respond anymore to your insults or allegations."

Fine, don't respond. There really is not much more to say. Obviously business ethics mean very little to you, so I have no reason to think saying anything further will help.

If you want to be legal at 100% you have to push it further:
If you purchased AmigaOS 3.1, 3.5, 3.9 you got unlicensed
applications (AREXX, AmitcpIP).

Now you can start a crusade against all the resellers who sold these
and all the users who used these.
There is also uncertaincy on the validity of Amithlon licenses (Bernie
declared some of them illegal)
Also running OS 3.9 in WinUAE violates the Eula.


Once you will have finished you will have destroyed everything Amiga
related.

Actually cdfr, it wouldn't destroy AROS, it wouldn't destroy OS4, nor would it destroy MorphOS. AROS is a reimplementation - they don't have source access so they aren't illegal. MorphOS, uses AROS code for their implementation of the AmigaOS API so they too are also legal. Then there is OS4, who owns the rights to the Amiga source, so obviously they are still legal.

I don't have OS3.9 so I don't know what the EULA states for its use. Nor have I used Amithlon or any AmigaOS post 3.0, so I can't comment on those. However, I don't understand how eliminating these if they are in fact illegal kills off the Amiga. There is still OS 3.0, and OS 4 when its released, MorphOS, and AROS, which are still being developed and supported. That sounds far from dead. Additionally your argument that just because there is precedent of ignoring the legally of distrobution of software post-Commadore doesn't make it right.

Now if you'd like to you can crusade against those you've mentioned, obviously I'm not familiar enough with them to do a good job. For instance I don't know if any of those projects could be legal under software abandoment clauses. So I'll stick to defending what I'm familiar with - being the "Apple-Legality Forum Bitch", instead of the "General Forum Bitch".

Vincent
Can we be civilized and call a truce? When I have time in the upcoming week I will update our site and put a disclaimer stating in no way do we endorse MOL for OSX and we dont claim to sell Peg that way.. This will clear the air..
magnetic

Quote:
First of all, people aren't buying a Pegasos because they want "an Amiga". That's as nutty as buying one because they want "a Mac." A Pegasos is a unique machine that can (or will be able to) run a number of OSs, some natively and some through emulation.

Then there's nothing new about using an Amiga-like system to run MacOS anyway. Actually when I first got my Amiga way back when, I ordered it with an A-Max cartridge and external floppy drive for Mac discs for exactly the same reason that somebody would want to run MOL now. Then came ShapeShifter, etc. So running MacOS on this platform is nothing new. In fact as I recall it was always kind of a matter of pride that the Amiga was powerful and flexible enough to run these other OSs. So I think you're off-base with your criticism of this idea. The tradition goes way back.

As far as being illegal is concerned, first of all, in Europe apparently EULAs are not accepted as binding from the get-go, and in the US, as far as I know there has never been a case against a consumer proving that they are binding. In any case, since it is a consumer contract and not a regulatory matter, it'd be a civil contract violation in the worst scenario, not a criminal violation. So it is not "illegal" in that sense but only a contract violation; and I'm not sure what the penalty would be in that case, should Apple decide to pursue the matter. It'd have to be determined by a civil suit of some kind, I guess.

As far Genesi advertising that you can run MacOS on the Pegasos, I don't see this on pegasosppc.com anywhere. If it was a official feature, I imagine it would be advertised as such. True, Bill Buck has talked about it in forums, but that's not the same as it being an advertised feature, as far as a would-be buyer is concerned. Forum talk is cheap and any Pegasos buyer saying "but bbrv said we could do it in a forum at xxxx.com" would look kind of silly in any legal proceedings if Apple would be trying to pin blame somewhere.

This is just my opinion, but I'd say just relax about arcane "permission" issues. Pegasos buyers ought to just enjoy the machine they bought, have fun with it, and use it how they want to. That's the tradition, too, isn't it?

-- gary_c

hi mikey,

quote "What do you intend for "Pegasos-Debian-CD"? That I will download the iso, burn on a CD, copy the files on a HD partition, reset and I will have linux installed!!?? If so this is a perfect solution for newbees like me! It's excellent! And what about different Pegasos configurations? I have a Radeon 8500: it will automatically work after I have copied all files on HD!?
Thanks a lot and sorry if I'm so ignorant about linux stuff "

Well it wont be downloadable yet as i dont have the money to host a website!.I will be charging the cost of the cd and my time.

My first release, will work on all video cards.
When you order from me it will be setup for that particular card.

the monitor settings are generic, so that it will work on all monitors.

most other settings can be reconfigured with a few clicks!

I've spent months on this project and i hope people will appreciate it.

goto my website, if you are interested "sign guestbook"
http://uk.geocities.com/david260179

cheers david

not long soon!!!

Magnetic,

What you propose will be more than fine. As far as I'm concerned, the air was just cleaned. Thankyou.

Well, the whole issue seems to be covered here...we will have to stop back by later to read everything. Just a few observations:

1. David, great work! We just posted the link in the comments of the latest MorphOS coverage at OSNews HERE.

2. Magnetic, your site is fine and we really appreciate all the work that went into it.

3. Christophe, the same goes for your review! When can we have it in French?...

4. Robert (alias MarkTime), what are you doing here posting under your real name!? Have you decided to abandon your FBI cover?! A wise man does not waste so good a commodity as lying for naught.

5. Thanks Gary, the voice of reason.

All concerned, Apple will not sue any individual user. It would be a public relations nightmare! If they do something one day it will be tied to IP/copyright issues and it will be part of something bigger. For example, related to music or movie piracy. That is what we think.

Thanks to all for the interesting discussion, just please tone down the hostility.

Raquel and Bill

Gary, I already relied to your OSNews post there, but in case you check here more often:

"Its in the Technical Specs section of the site. You're right I am being overly picky. Since it just advertises that you can run Mac-On-Linux in bold instead of explicitly saying you can run a MacOS on Mac-On-Linux.

http://www.pegasosppc.com/tech_specs.php

If you can give a better explanation for singling out that particular debian package and bolding it above any other debian feature by all means please do so.

Additionally, bbrv's subsequent posting of David's project on OSNews has no disclaimer or notice about it breaking the Apple EULA if you use Mac-On-Linux for what the programs name suggests.

I don't really see how this can fit in with respecting EULAs, if you know I'd be more than happy for you to enlighten me :)"

-- Edit -- Update --

Uh, it looks like I'm going to writing a EULA Notification Paragraph for David... so there will be some kind of warning. Thankyou David.

Gary, I'm pretty much out of things to complain about at this point - but if want to argue with me, I'll do my best to be entertaining :D

Oh and Bill, I know your not posting that its ok to run OSX just because Apple hasn't sued anyone just after I settled that argument with Magnetic ;)

Hi RobertDupuy & Vincent_X

Thank you for worrying so much

But I have never seen anybody talking anything about including MacOS on anything... ?

As for under which circumstances Apple sells MacOS, my thought is that you should speak with Apple about that. My simple understanding of whats common sence, is that conditions for how to use something you sell should be stated before the trade take place.

For instance if you sell a car which not is allowed to drive on a certain kinds of road, you should inform the costumer about this before you sell the car to him, don't you think ?

Thank you BBRV, GUnne, Gary, CDFR and others
For your support and giving more scope to the argument. Lets hope we can move on from this.
magnetic

David, did you get the statement?

Greetings,

Gentoo makes a LiveCD of Gentoo Linux for PPC. This includes MOL.
A LiveCD means you boot off the CD with no need for installation or setup.
The URL for Gentoo Linux is Gentoo.org



Peace out.

Have you even tried thier liveCD? It doesn't even startup into the Xserver; much less a working GUI environment. You expect, amigan's to be able to configure the x-server, use TWM or the CLI to start VI so they can hand-create a .xinitrc file in the user home directory RAM-Disk - just so then can get into a decent GUI like KDE or Gnome? Or do you, shudder, expect them to configure MOL from console?

I'm all for staying legal about things and not fostering a community where piracy is encouraged, but geez gentoo is just mean. There are plenty of other LiveCDs that do things right. Yopper, SuSE, Knoppix off the top of my head are much better LiveCDs.

Wohaoao
A Mac user Trolling on Morphzone? I've seen it all..
magnetic

Just wanted to share it... My first picture created with the beta version of Terragen Mac (on a Pegasos G3/600 under Debian and MacOnLinux).

@warface

Very nice!

Ok Mate.

You got me there. I have not tried Gentoo's LiveCD.
No PPC machine yet. I have tried Knoppix ,which is amazing. I was hoping Gentoo worked the same way.


Any how this is the spec for Gentoo.

To use the LiveCDs, Simply boot one on your NewWorld PowerPC (iMac or newer) and enjoy the great performance and functionality of Gentoo Linux/PPC. LiveCDs can be downloaded here or at similar locations on our mirrors.

Included on the LiveCDs:

* Custom PPC kernel (2.4.21-r1) with G4 AltiVec support
* Latest Mac-On-Linux emulator (run MacOS X in a window)
* Gentoo Compressed Loop 2GB live filesystem
* Xfree 4.3 (DRM) with either Gnome2.2.1/Metacity/Openbox or KDE3.1.2
* A complete set of Gentoo 1.4_rc7 PPC stages (for installing Gentoo)
* HFS(+) resizing kernel/parted patch (easily make room for Gentoo)
* IPv6 support out of the box
* Latest stable Mozilla release
* Distcc-enabled gcc toolchain (for distributed PPC compiles)
* Wardriving tools (kismet and airsnort)
* Routing/advanced iptables support
* Apache 2/SSL with php
* Countless other good

Besides apart from SUSE, all the distros you mentioned are X86 only.


Peace out.

Shogun,

Your right. Yopper and Knoppix don't have PPC versions, but I was using those as well as SuSE as examples of LiveCDs that actually do what they are supposed to do correctly. When I saw the specs for the Gentoo LiveCD I was looking to be impressed since their distrobution is world-class. As you can see, I was a bit more than disappointed at what appeared to be a lukewarm attempt.

Honestly, I really wouldn't recommend using SuSE either since their PPC distro is rather dated (7.1 still). Most likely if one just edited a few initrc files and reimaged the CD with them in the /etc directory a lot of the gentoo problems would vanish.

However the current half-way solutions are really frustrating. As it stands its possible to add a line to the initrc so that after booting up and running the first time installation, it would manually create a .xinitrc file with "exec startkde" or "exec gnome-session". But that still wouldn't be all that elegant since on boot you'd get dumped into a command prompt and have to manually "easyconfX" and then "startX". The best solution would probably be to make your own custom LiveCD off of gentoo. It wouldn't be that bad actually since they include a list of installed packages on the CD.

Magnetic,

If you're going to call names at least make them accruate, like Apple Programmer or Apple Developer. Failing that you could at least try to make them interesting insults. For instance, Macophile - it has some semblance of being a real term not to mention thats its a nice play on the word electrophile from organic chemistry. I've even seen someone use the term Macophilus Histeritica to describe people at MacWorld. Again, another fun term since it basically means Histerical Mac-Person, while being a play on two seperate microbial names - Haemophilus Influenzea and Entamoeba Histolitica. This is even before you consider the added bonus of it comparing Apple people to bacteria/parasites. So why don't you try to use one of those instead? At least it would be better than that kindergarden level "mac-troll" vocabulary you're using now.

Now to specifically answer the apple troll allegations, I'd say you were correct execpt for one small problem. That term is too narrow. In my spare time when I'm not being a MacMunk, I moon light as a Penguinista, Windows-Sheep, and a BeBitch. Pretty much no matter what the OS is, if someone does something I think is wrong - I'll let them know. Which by the way reminds me - its now tuesday and your site still isn't updated. :)